BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion Trump to ban migrants from 6 Muslim countries

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-25-2017, 07:22 PM   #111
uberschnell
Brigadier General
uberschnell's Avatar
No_Country
597
Rep
4,057
Posts

Drives: Wide Body 1
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (48)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I can't find where Trump used the term "Muslim ban" - where did he say that?
He didn't and it's not a ban. It's a temporary suspension of immigration from countries deemed to have a high risk of terrorist threat until a more formal recommendation can be made.

Now it does leave room for person's belonging to minority religions in the country (think Christians) to migrate due to persecution.

I may not agree with his policies but will admit its a well crafted, comprehensive document that covers a broad range of directives. I still think the majority of it is PR and that judgment on it's effectiveness should be reserved until we see the final recommendations and ultimately if, in the long run, we are safer or not as a result.
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2017, 07:22 PM   #112
gonzo
Lieutenant General
gonzo's Avatar
United_States
8731
Rep
13,893
Posts

Drives: as many as possible
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: TeXXXas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
My name is not Dude. I am not living in la la land, as I said that I did not believe that Trump's numbers were higher than Obama's!!

The time lapse is bogus, just like the photo comparison. You stop!!!
Your post read that way but you need to maybe edit in 'not.' You typed I 'do believe'...
The time lapse just sort of stopped and panned to end. ??
Ants were still scampering around. The whole day?
__________________
Crazy Diamond
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2017, 07:26 PM   #113
uberschnell
Brigadier General
uberschnell's Avatar
No_Country
597
Rep
4,057
Posts

Drives: Wide Body 1
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (48)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
My name is not Dude. I am not living in la la land, as I said that I did not believe that Trump's numbers were higher than Obama's!!

The time lapse is bogus, just like the photo comparison. You stop!!!
Bogus.. OK, sounds reasonable
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2017, 07:28 PM   #114
SakhirM4
Major General
SakhirM4's Avatar
United_States
10247
Rep
8,722
Posts

Drives: '15 SO M4/'20 Z4 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW Z4 M40i  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [4.38]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Your post read that way but you need to maybe edit in 'not.' You typed I 'do believe'...
The time lapse just sort of stopped and panned to end. ??
Ants were still scampering around. The whole day?
Corrected - thanks.
__________________
Tejas Chapter, BMW CCA, mem #23915, President 27 years, www.tejaschapter.org
2015 ///M4, SO/full black, 6MT, HK, light 19"
Appreciate 1
MKSixer23519.00

      01-25-2017, 09:36 PM   #115
bbbbmw
Major General
2387
Rep
6,083
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
He called for a complete "shutdown" of all Muslim immigration in December, 2015.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-r...im-immigration

If you're quibbling about "shutdown" vs "ban" they are functionally the same. I was responding to more nonsense abouts leftist conspiracy when it is clear that the label is the direct result of what he said.
What he said was "We must suspend immigration from regions linked with terrorism until a proven vetting method is in place."

He did clarify his (at the time) recommendation several times, when the media pressed him on it.

But "Muslim Ban" sounds so much more... Insidious.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      01-25-2017, 09:37 PM   #116
bbbbmw
Major General
2387
Rep
6,083
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberschnell View Post
He didn't and it's not a ban. It's a temporary suspension of immigration from countries deemed to have a high risk of terrorist threat until a more formal recommendation can be made.

Now it does leave room for person's belonging to minority religions in the country (think Christians) to migrate due to persecution.

I may not agree with his policies but will admit its a well crafted, comprehensive document that covers a broad range of directives. I still think the majority of it is PR and that judgment on it's effectiveness should be reserved until we see the final recommendations and ultimately if, in the long run, we are safer or not as a result.
Thank you for your reasonable and rational response.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 2
SakhirM410247.00
MKSixer23519.00

      01-29-2017, 05:08 AM   #117
....,,,,..,,..
General
No_Country
6649
Rep
20,672
Posts

Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: xxxx

iTrader: (0)

Every country has the right to control its borders and decide who it will allow entry.

That is one of the reasons behind the visa system.

So while I have nothing as such against the ban, it just seems exceptionally badly thought through.

It does not include countries such as Afghanistan, Algeria, Morocco, Lebanon, Palestine (yes they have pass ports), Pakistan, Indonesia.

Those countries above are where a large number of terrorists are born (hold passport), additionally the majority are rife with corruption and places like Pakistan loads of fake passports.

Adding Iran seems strange, they are fighting against ISIS and there were a large number that fled Iran during their revolution, a large majority being highly educated and linked to U.K., French US companies since the revolution.

If it is down to needing a better way to vet people, then I guess more countries need to be added, as I imagine majority of Central African countries suck on controls.

If it is Muslim and / or terrorism, then say so and ban the correct full number of countries.

The current order just seems a very botched attempt by some clown that has not had an impact analysis carried out.

This should have been phased in over a number of weeks and not as it has been.
Appreciate 3
VRG_135794.50
c63er861.00

      01-29-2017, 07:16 AM   #118
justinnum1
Major General
622
Rep
5,795
Posts

Drives: 2018 330i Msport 6mt
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Guess what, 1.5million americans killed by guns since 1968 versus 5 killed by refugees.
Refugees the bigger problem tho.
__________________
F30 330i Alpine white/Coral red Msport 6MT
Appreciate 2
Lups11078.00

      01-29-2017, 08:01 AM   #119
dsad1
Colonel
1126
Rep
2,336
Posts

Drives: car
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

The restrictions stated in the executive order are not that extreme, the issue is it's being implemented differently.

There is nothing that says people with green cards can't return, it is crazy that they are blocking people with green cards. Green card holders were already vetted multiple times.

Families with green cards that went on vacation are now stuck. Again that isn't what the order states, but for some reason the administration isn't doing anything about it.
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 08:03 AM   #120
justinnum1
Major General
622
Rep
5,795
Posts

Drives: 2018 330i Msport 6mt
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
The restrictions stated in the executive order are not that extreme, the issue is it's being implemented differently.

There is nothing that says people with green cards can't return, it is crazy that they are blocking people with green cards. Those people were already vetted multiple times.

Families with green cards that went on vacation are now stuck. Again that isn't what the order states, but for some reason the administration isn't doing anything about it.
There are several issues, all make the trump administration look incompetent.

Green cards were supposed to not be an issue but bannon said no.
Giuliani said trump asked him to help make a "muslim ban that looks legal"
No lawyers had a chance to go through the EO
DHS didnt even have a heads up what was going to go down.

__________________
F30 330i Alpine white/Coral red Msport 6MT

Last edited by justinnum1; 01-29-2017 at 08:55 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 09:06 AM   #121
MrRoboto
Brigadier General
Canada
1753
Rep
4,836
Posts

Drives: VO 1M
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 09:54 AM   #122
Germanauto
Brigadier General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
4303
Rep
3,461
Posts

Drives: BMW, Lexus
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NW, SoCal

iTrader: (0)

I think I've had it with this guy. I'm a moderate Conservative who didn't vote for either candidate, but did favor Trump only marginally. I wanted to give him a chance but this whole entire thing is ridiculous.

Bush did this after 9/11 which made perfect sense, but right now there hasn't been any recent terror attacks that call for such drastic action. The attacks that have been done here were from home-grown terrorists. Even if he were to just ban or reduce the number of refugees it would have made a little more sense, but now green card holders are screwed too. Absolutely short-sighted and unnecessary. This is a real shame.
Appreciate 4
VRG_135794.50
c63er861.00

      01-29-2017, 10:05 AM   #123
Delta0311
Banned
7395
Rep
10,130
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 335xi E92 2016 228xi
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I think I've had it with this guy. I'm a moderate Conservative who didn't vote for either candidate, but did favor Trump only marginally. I wanted to give him a chance but this whole entire thing is ridiculous.

Bush did this after 9/11 which made perfect sense, but right now there hasn't been any recent terror attacks that call for such drastic action. The attacks that have been done here were from home-grown terrorists. Even if he were to just ban or reduce the number of refugees it would have made a little more sense, but now green card holders are screwed too. Absolutely short-sighted and unnecessary. This is a real shame.
Right great approach there. Wait till they attack again then react. To be successful at war on must be proactive not just reactive. Last recent attack by foreign nationals was the Boston bombing, which was in 2013. Both of the attackers where born in chechnya.
Appreciate 1
bbbbmw2387.00

      01-29-2017, 10:07 AM   #124
....,,,,..,,..
General
No_Country
6649
Rep
20,672
Posts

Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: xxxx

iTrader: (0)

It just comes over as immensely incompetent, it seems to show that who ever was involved in the process of writing and reviewing this order is incompetent.

I have totally no hassle with any country restricting entry, putting in more secure entry requirements, even out right bans.

However, this has just been pathetically managed with obviously no impact analysis or planning or anything level of thinking.

I just do not see what it hopes to accomplish, it is missing some major terrorist producing countries, it is also likely missing lots of countries with crap passport and visa checking procedures.

This single executive order alone shows to the rest of the world and likely most Americans a new level of political incompetence
Appreciate 2
Germanauto4302.50
c63er861.00

      01-29-2017, 10:19 AM   #125
Haywood
I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2...
Haywood's Avatar
United_States
2329
Rep
2,973
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Coupe, e39 M5
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: LI, NY

iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2003 BMW e39 M5  [0.00]
1997 BMW e36 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I think I've had it with this guy. I'm a moderate Conservative who didn't vote for either candidate, but did favor Trump only marginally. I wanted to give him a chance but this whole entire thing is ridiculous.

Bush did this after 9/11 which made perfect sense, but right now there hasn't been any recent terror attacks that call for such drastic action. The attacks that have been done here were from home-grown terrorists. Even if he were to just ban or reduce the number of refugees it would have made a little more sense, but now green card holders are screwed too. Absolutely short-sighted and unnecessary. This is a real shame.
So, you'd rather wait until there is an attack before we put a clamp down on refugees?
__________________
2003 Le Mans Blue e39 M5 Dinan S1
1997 Alpine White e36 M3 (the old gal)
2013 Mineral White e92 M3 (sold )
2014 Carbon Black 650i M-sport (sold)
Appreciate 1
bbbbmw2387.00

      01-29-2017, 10:25 AM   #126
bbbbmw
Major General
2387
Rep
6,083
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
It just comes over as immensely incompetent, it seems to show that who ever was involved in the process of writing and reviewing this order is incompetent.

I have totally no hassle with any country restricting entry, putting in more secure entry requirements, even out right bans.

However, this has just been pathetically managed with obviously no impact analysis or planning or anything level of thinking.

I just do not see what it hopes to accomplish, it is missing some major terrorist producing countries, it is also likely missing lots of countries with crap passport and visa checking procedures.

This single executive order alone shows to the rest of the world and likely most Americans a new level of political incompetence
It's a 90- day moratorium on immigration, etc.

Everyone acts like it's forever (and the sky is falling).

Ironic you're posting this - maybe the Brits need to take a look at their immigration policies? Perhaps Theresa May will save the Empire.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 10:28 AM   #127
bbbbmw
Major General
2387
Rep
6,083
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I think I've had it with this guy. I'm a moderate Conservative who didn't vote for either candidate, but did favor Trump only marginally. I wanted to give him a chance but this whole entire thing is ridiculous.

Bush did this after 9/11 which made perfect sense, but right now there hasn't been any recent terror attacks that call for such drastic action. The attacks that have been done here were from home-grown terrorists. Even if he were to just ban or reduce the number of refugees it would have made a little more sense, but now green card holders are screwed too. Absolutely short-sighted and unnecessary. This is a real shame.
There were three attacks in September from "refugees" - MN, NY, and OH.

Take another look at the "home grown" terrorists - of the minority that were born here, most of them are the children of radicals that were allowed to immigrate to the US in the 80's and '90's.

Here's more:

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-09-09.html
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 10:47 AM   #128
Stangorang
Major
Stangorang's Avatar
United_States
210
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
It's a 90- day moratorium on immigration, etc.

Everyone acts like it's forever (and the sky is falling).

Ironic you're posting this - maybe the Brits need to take a look at their immigration policies? Perhaps Theresa May will save the Empire.
It is an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees, not a 90 day moratorium.
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 10:49 AM   #129
bbbbmw
Major General
2387
Rep
6,083
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangorang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
It's a 90- day moratorium on immigration, etc.

Everyone acts like it's forever (and the sky is falling).

Ironic you're posting this - maybe the Brits need to take a look at their immigration policies? Perhaps Theresa May will save the Empire.
It is an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees, not a 90 day moratorium.
And that's an even better idea!
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 11:03 AM   #130
enfield
Civilian
enfield's Avatar
Canada
60
Rep
970
Posts

Drives: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by david in germany View Post
There are 4 Migrant centers in the town where I live and can attest to this. The migrants have destroyed the places that they are living in (old American Army Housing areas) the bordering communities have seen crime rates increase 200% and people are scared to go out in the night because of regular events that the local governments cover up as the standard. The police ( I have a few friends in the German Polizei) have their hands tied by the government as well, Arrest, record the name (most of the time more of an alias) and then sent them on their way...

To put it into perspective, 3 years ago only the Police had pepper spray (more like pepper joke) now the stuff is being sold in the grocery stores. Oh, Forgot to mention, if you do actually use pepper spray to defend yourself you can almost expect to be prosecuted for bodily injury if the attacker chooses to push charges against you...
I think David's post is important. I was born in Pakistan. It's not on the list but it easily could be. I am not going to talk of the merits of this temporary ban of 90 days for visas or 120 days for refugees.

What I am going to say is that as a Canadian brown dude of Pakistani birth - I am no longer visiting Europe. I think it's unsafe as David points out and due to my skin colour I do not wish to be confused for an Immigrant or Refugee in Europe.

I am also probably going to curtail my US visits until this sorts itself out. I do not wish to put myself at the mercy of The Department of Homeland Security - even though I am an atheist and have nothing to hide.
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 11:10 AM   #131
bbbbmw
Major General
2387
Rep
6,083
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by david in germany View Post
There are 4 Migrant centers in the town where I live and can attest to this. The migrants have destroyed the places that they are living in (old American Army Housing areas) the bordering communities have seen crime rates increase 200% and people are scared to go out in the night because of regular events that the local governments cover up as the standard. The police ( I have a few friends in the German Polizei) have their hands tied by the government as well, Arrest, record the name (most of the time more of an alias) and then sent them on their way...

To put it into perspective, 3 years ago only the Police had pepper spray (more like pepper joke) now the stuff is being sold in the grocery stores. Oh, Forgot to mention, if you do actually use pepper spray to defend yourself you can almost expect to be prosecuted for bodily injury if the attacker chooses to push charges against you...
I think David's post is important. I was born in Pakistan. It's not on the list but it easily could be. I am not going to talk of the merits of this temporary ban of 90 days for visas or 120 days for refugees.

What I am going to say is that as a Canadian brown dude of Pakistani birth - I am no longer visiting Europe. I think it's unsafe as David points out and due to my skin colour I do not wish to be confused for an Immigrant or Refugee in Europe.

I am also probably going to curtail my US visits until this sorts itself out. I do not wish to put myself at the mercy of The Department of Homeland Security - even though I am an atheist and have nothing to hide.
Are you going to visit Pakistan? Would it be a problem there that you are an atheist?
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2017, 11:23 AM   #132
pz619
Colonel
2351
Rep
2,684
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I think I've had it with this guy. I'm a moderate Conservative who didn't vote for either candidate, but did favor Trump only marginally. I wanted to give him a chance but this whole entire thing is ridiculous.

Bush did this after 9/11 which made perfect sense, but right now there hasn't been any recent terror attacks that call for such drastic action. The attacks that have been done here were from home-grown terrorists. Even if he were to just ban or reduce the number of refugees it would have made a little more sense, but now green card holders are screwed too. Absolutely short-sighted and unnecessary. This is a real shame.
So, you'd rather wait until there is an attack before we put a clamp down on refugees?
Honestly yes. Because there hasn't been a major attack from one of those countries. On top of that look at the countries that are absent. We already have the most extensive screening process to get in the US. Want more vetting? Fine. Put that in place. But a shutdown is just giving into fear.

In the end it doesn't matter. It will be challenged in the courts and will be struck down. As well it should.
Appreciate 2
Germanauto4302.50
Lups11078.00

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST