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      12-30-2019, 06:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classyfast View Post
Looks even more like a Supra. Good job overpriced overhyped 3d
Bro you sound crazy... stop being ridiculous this looks nothing like the supra + if this platform was used to make the "bupra" as I call it how could this look like that? Other way around sir..

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      12-30-2019, 03:07 PM   #24
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I think it looks great! These are not selling not because they are not great cars and not good looking, the auto market is down and two seat roadsters are at the bottom of the heap.

The new Vette will do ok because of the cult following (and the new mid engine may steal a few new customers).

I hope it doesnt kill this car its really good. I dont have room for a 2 seater right now, although if they came out with an M version I would consider letting my E93 M3 go.
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      12-31-2019, 08:18 AM   #25
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G29 Selling Very Well

Not sure what numbers you are talking about but Ive been told by corporate BMW people in Munich that G29 Z4 sales globally so far are above expectations. Lots of these things running around in Germany where the E89 owners were waiting for an upgraded car. The Z4/Supra program is working our OK for all. Also the G29 is not cross shopped with Corvette. Completely different buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTruong View Post
The z4 is not selling for a reason... Even though it's a good car, it's priced as much as the new Vette and the design is a little awkward. The concept was gorgeous and the back of this car is striking, but most people I know do not like it. Looking at the Nov sales #s, car sales are just down altogether. 3 series sales are up from the outgoing gen, but when you compare them to when the f gen was released, they are down significantly. Same with the 8 series vs the previous gen 6.
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      12-31-2019, 01:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by rikwynnpa View Post
Also the G29 is not cross shopped with Corvette. Completely different buyers.
Let me gently challenge that statement … I agree that I didn't cross shop current Corvette with the G29, but I can tell you that I did look (and almost ordered) a Corvette once my E89 lease was up. I ended up waiting for a G29 for a variety of reasons (but had I known back then how long I was going to wait for it, I probably would have bought one of the two, leaning towards Corvette).

Also, looking at the 2020 Corvette, I will be tempted to trade in my G29 - and would be cross shopping the convertible hardtop 2020 Corvette with the G29 had I waited another year with purchasing the G29.

I am hoping that BMW does more than just a cosmetic LCI refresh of the G29. If not and especially if it turns out that there will be no immediate successor (as everybody seems to indicate right now) once production stops, I am sure I will take a very close look at a convertible hard top Corvette sooner rather than later.
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      12-31-2019, 07:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTruong View Post
The z4 is not selling for a reason... Even though it's a good car, it's priced as much as the new Vette and the design is a little awkward. The concept was gorgeous and the back of this car is striking, but most people I know do not like it. Looking at the Nov sales #s, car sales are just down altogether. 3 series sales are up from the outgoing gen, but when you compare them to when the f gen was released, they are down significantly. Same with the 8 series vs the previous gen 6.

My dealer has the same Z4's since spring and not even one got sold. People are voting with their wallet I guess...

For me, the new Z4 has a very NO-BMW face which very few like. Is not bad, but it lacks BMW genes in terms of design. The headlights that are missing the double corona are just FIAT. Low from BMW's part. Secondly, the lack of a hardtop model made it very unappealing to many. Some will like it as an everyday car, but that hard top puts it right on the "warm climate only" or "summer toy category" and that was a mistake. I was tempted but that soft-top doesn't do it for me at all.

The 8 is the new 6 with the GREEDY PACKAGE.
Really wanted one but at that price I turned around just because of the principle. Puting the car up in the nomenclature will not do the trick. It supposed to be a 6 replacement, and it was a very good one. I am afraid that their greediness will slap them back hard, and after my discussions with several dealers, it seems that it does.
Love it but no thank you.
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      12-31-2019, 07:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
My dealer has the same Z4's since spring and not even one got sold. People are voting with their wallet I guess...

For me, the new Z4 has a very NO-BMW face which very few like. Is not bad, but it lacks BMW genes in terms of design. The headlights that are missing the double corona are just FIAT. Low from BMW's part. Secondly, the lack of a hardtop model made it very unappealing to many. Some will like it as an everyday car, but that hard top puts it right on the "warm climate only" or "summer toy category" and that was a mistake. I was tempted but that soft-top doesn't do it for me at all.

The 8 is the new 6 with the GREEDY PACKAGE.
Really wanted one but at that price I turned around just because of the principle. Puting the car up in the nomenclature will not do the trick. It supposed to be a 6 replacement, and it was a very good one. I am afraid that their greediness will slap them back hard, and after my discussions with several dealers, it seems that it does.
Love it but no thank you.
Have owned 15 BMWs and currently own an M4 as well as the Z4. I really disagree with your characterizations of the new Z4. The soft top is actually a step forward, with no more loss of trunk space and quick up/down time, including in motion.

I am very happy that BMW did not follow your opinion, because I am thoroughly enjoying my Z4 M40i
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      01-01-2020, 11:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Have owned 15 BMWs and currently own an M4 as well as the Z4. I really disagree with your characterizations of the new Z4. The soft top is actually a step forward, with no more loss of trunk space and quick up/down time, including in motion.

I am very happy that BMW did not follow your opinion, because I am thoroughly enjoying my Z4 M40i
Glad you enjoy it.
I personally find the cloth in top to be very unattractive, like we did not evolved at all since 1800 when doctors had that cloth on their carriages. It never looked as it belonged to a car regardless of how much they tried. That material also fades, cracks and is hard to wash in certain cases.
Regardless of that, is unable to retain the interior temperature and stop the exterior noise. Where I live -45 C are a certainty, the AWD will not help if I will freeze inside. At that temperature, the cloth will most likely have some structural damage, especially in a vehicle like this where the body frame twist more than a normal vehicle. The blower will work harder and all the time at a high speed to keep up with the demand. Even so, the cloth has a hard life to cope as is the single barrier between two different temperatures.
In time problems arise, as is also unable to seal properly anymore with the rest of the body
In top of that, it can always be cut to have your belongings stolen, the vehicle vandalized or stolen. My cousin Z3 was stolen that way.

As mentioned before, I don’t see that BMW design so I don’t like it and is not practical for some. Yeah California, cool. Canada? Not really. And since will be a toy anyway, then as a summer toy I truly prefer the M2 instead as it is the new E46, RWD and with a proper BMW design and a small and strong carozzeria. But not everyone has a budget or the space for a such toy. I know two people that use old Z4 as a daily driver, but the new one is out of their books. I think Toyota was more practical in here.
Is true, is cute, but I personally like the old Z4 a lot more in terms of design.

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      01-01-2020, 01:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Glad you enjoy it.
I personally find the cloth in top to be very unattractive, like we did not evolved at all since 1800 when doctors had that cloth on their carriages. It never looked as it belonged to a car regardless of how much they tried. That material also fades, cracks and is hard to wash in certain cases.
Regardless of that, is unable to retain the interior temperature and stop the exterior noise. Where I live -45 C are a certainty, the AWD will not help if I will freeze inside. At that temperature, the cloth will most likely have some structural damage, especially in a vehicle like this where the body frame twist more than a normal vehicle. The blower will work harder and all the time at a high speed to keep up with the demand. Even so, the cloth has a hard life to cope as is the single barrier between two different temperatures.
In time problems arise, as is also unable to seal properly anymore with the rest of the body
In top of that, it can always be cut to have your belongings stolen, the vehicle vandalized or stolen. My cousin Z3 was stolen that way.

As mentioned before, I don’t see that BMW design so I don’t like it and is not practical for some. Yeah California, cool. Canada? Not really. And since will be a toy anyway, then as a summer toy I truly prefer the M2 instead as it is the new E46, RWD and with a proper BMW design and a small and strong carozzeria. But not everyone has a budget or the space for a such toy. I know two people that use old Z4 as a daily driver, but the new one is out of their books. I think Toyota was more practical in here.
Is true, is cute, but I personally like the old Z4 a lot more in terms of design.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
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      01-01-2020, 01:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Glad you enjoy it.
I personally find the cloth in top to be very unattractive, like we did not evolved at all since 1800 when doctors had that cloth on their carriages. It never looked as it belonged to a car regardless of how much they tried. That material also fades, cracks and is hard to wash in certain cases.
Regardless of that, is unable to retain the interior temperature and stop the exterior noise. Where I live -45 C are a certainty, the AWD will not help if I will freeze inside. At that temperature, the cloth will most likely have some structural damage, especially in a vehicle like this where the body frame twist more than a normal vehicle. The blower will work harder and all the time at a high speed to keep up with the demand. Even so, the cloth has a hard life to cope as is the single barrier between two different temperatures.
In time problems arise, as is also unable to seal properly anymore with the rest of the body
In top of that, it can always be cut to have your belongings stolen, the vehicle vandalized or stolen. My cousin Z3 was stolen that way.

As mentioned before, I don’t see that BMW design so I don’t like it and is not practical for some. Yeah California, cool. Canada? Not really. And since will be a toy anyway, then as a summer toy I truly prefer the M2 instead as it is the new E46, RWD and with a proper BMW design and a small and strong carozzeria. But not everyone has a budget or the space for a such toy. I know two people that use old Z4 as a daily driver, but the new one is out of their books. I think Toyota was more practical in here.
Is true, is cute, but I personally like the old Z4 a lot more in terms of design.
So many things inaccurate in your text.

Z4 is only offered RWD, no xDrive option. Base model is one wheel, m model has LSD.

Top retains the internal temperatures just fine. Haven’t had any issues with the blower working harder to maintain temps, either in summer or winter. Also have heated seats and steering wheel so sure that helps keep me warm, but that wouldn’t regulate internal temps of the cabin.

Coming from a m240ix coupe to this vehicle, this car is by far more balanced, minimal body roll from the factory, and I don’t notice any flex in the body when doing hard corners, stops, or accelerations, even with the top down. BMW made this frame one of the most solid convertibles out there.

Sure, a convertible top can fade and crack from extreme temperatures, so can paint if not properly maintained. These rag tops are not the same ones that came on old caddy’s. They have evolved to withstand the tough elements. I’m sure replacement cost of a convertible cloth is similarly priced to having your roof stripped/prepped/painted after years of enduring the elements.

The top can be cut? That’s a sorry excuse to not get a convertible. Look at the convertible structure on realOEM and you’ll see that it’s solid on top and the articulating areas are reinforced, about the same position where the roll bars are located. Good luck cutting your way inside to steal stuff!

Also with cutting the top just to be vandals, they can also key your car, break your window, slice a tire, break a light. Having a convertible doesn’t attract vandals. They will damage a vehicle whether it’s a convertible or a hard top.

Vehicle thefts aren’t higher with convertibles than they are with hard tops strictly because they have a cloth top. Thieves look for cars that are easily stolen due to weak security systems. That’s why civics and Chrysler products are high on the most stolen list year after year. Sure, your cousin’s z3 was stolen by slicing the top, but did his vehicle have an active alarm like the z4, with motion sensors that sense movement within the cabin space when armed? The G29 Z4 does have this. Why I can leave my top down while I run inside the store because the alarm will sound if anyone reaches into the cabin space. I’m not saying it will stop thieves, so always hide your belongings and close compartments if you do this to deter thieves. This is the same principle with a hard top vehicle as well though.

Also with your cousins z3 compared to the G29, I’m pretty sure his z3 didn’t have the capabilities for active tracking like the G29 does with BMW Connected drive. Whether you have a subscription or not, you can contact BMW and provide your information and authorize them to track the vehicle for the authorities. This deters would be car thieves from targeting modern BMWs. Not saying they won’t happen, but it requires additional tools and knowledge that most thieves don’t put effort into.

I can understand and respect your dislike of the styling. Vehicles aren’t made to please everyone because it’s impossible. They’re made to please the majority so there will always be people who dislike styling of any vehicle.

One last thing to rant about, you may think Toyota may have been more practical when it comes to a DD, but this is subjective. They both have damn near ode ticket storage capacity, with the Supra having the advantage with the trunk being integrated with the cabin like Nissan does with their Zs and Chevy with the corvette. However, their body design has one of the largest flaws when it comes to coupes and that’s wind buffeting with the windows down. This has been brought up by almost every car review of the Supra. At speeds above 45mph, there is an unbearable wind buffeting in the cabin and the windows need to be put up to prevent it. The Z4 doesn’t have this issue with the top up and windows down, even at highways speeds of 70+ mph. Again, this is subjective as some would never have the windows down at speeds above 45mph so it may not be an issue for them. For me, that’d be problematic because living in Florida, window down weather comes and goes so the top doesn’t always go down when driving.
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      01-01-2020, 02:13 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Glad you enjoy it.
I personally find the cloth in top to be very unattractive, like we did not evolved at all since 1800 when doctors had that cloth on their carriages. It never looked as it belonged to a car regardless of how much they tried. That material also fades, cracks and is hard to wash in certain cases.
Regardless of that, is unable to retain the interior temperature and stop the exterior noise. Where I live -45 C are a certainty, the AWD will not help if I will freeze inside. At that temperature, the cloth will most likely have some structural damage, especially in a vehicle like this where the body frame twist more than a normal vehicle. The blower will work harder and all the time at a high speed to keep up with the demand. Even so, the cloth has a hard life to cope as is the single barrier between two different temperatures.
In time problems arise, as is also unable to seal properly anymore with the rest of the body
In top of that, it can always be cut to have your belongings stolen, the vehicle vandalized or stolen. My cousin Z3 was stolen that way.

As mentioned before, I don’t see that BMW design so I don’t like it and is not practical for some. Yeah California, cool. Canada? Not really. And since will be a toy anyway, then as a summer toy I truly prefer the M2 instead as it is the new E46, RWD and with a proper BMW design and a small and strong carozzeria. But not everyone has a budget or the space for a such toy. I know two people that use old Z4 as a daily driver, but the new one is out of their books. I think Toyota was more practical in here.
Is true, is cute, but I personally like the old Z4 a lot more in terms of design.
If your concern is staying warm in the winter or even considering driving it in -45 C temperature, you are clearly missing the point of this beautiful car. If its too cold to have the top down, the car stays in the garage. Living in NJ unfortunately this will not be a year round car for me but only time the top will be closed is if I'm stuck in traffic and it gets too hot. After having a hard top convertible for 7 years I can't wait to have a top that can be closed while driving.
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      01-01-2020, 02:51 PM   #33
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When are they gone bring this aero kit out???

lol lol lol
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      01-01-2020, 03:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
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So many things inaccurate in your text.

Z4 is only offered RWD, no xDrive option. Base model is one wheel, m model has LSD.

Top retains the internal temperatures just fine. HavenÂ’t had any issues with the blower working harder to maintain temps, either in summer or winter. Also have heated seats and steering wheel so sure that helps keep me warm, but that wouldnÂ’t regulate internal temps of the cabin.

Coming from a m240ix coupe to this vehicle, this car is by far more balanced, minimal body roll from the factory, and I donÂ’t notice any flex in the body when doing hard corners, stops, or accelerations, even with the top down. BMW made this frame one of the most solid convertibles out there.

Sure, a convertible top can fade and crack from extreme temperatures, so can paint if not properly maintained. These rag tops are not the same ones that came on old caddyÂ’s. They have evolved to withstand the tough elements. IÂ’m sure replacement cost of a convertible cloth is similarly priced to having your roof stripped/prepped/painted after years of enduring the elements.

The top can be cut? ThatÂ’s a sorry excuse to not get a convertible. Look at the convertible structure on realOEM and youÂ’ll see that itÂ’s solid on top and the articulating areas are reinforced, about the same position where the roll bars are located. Good luck cutting your way inside to steal stuff!

Also with cutting the top just to be vandals, they can also key your car, break your window, slice a tire, break a light. Having a convertible doesnÂ’t attract vandals. They will damage a vehicle whether itÂ’s a convertible or a hard top.

Vehicle thefts arenÂ’t higher with convertibles than they are with hard tops strictly because they have a cloth top. Thieves look for cars that are easily stolen due to weak security systems. ThatÂ’s why civics and Chrysler products are high on the most stolen list year after year. Sure, your cousinÂ’s z3 was stolen by slicing the top, but did his vehicle have an active alarm like the z4, with motion sensors that sense movement within the cabin space when armed? The G29 Z4 does have this. Why I can leave my top down while I run inside the store because the alarm will sound if anyone reaches into the cabin space. IÂ’m not saying it will stop thieves, so always hide your belongings and close compartments if you do this to deter thieves. This is the same principle with a hard top vehicle as well though.

Also with your cousins z3 compared to the G29, IÂ’m pretty sure his z3 didnÂ’t have the capabilities for active tracking like the G29 does with BMW Connected drive. Whether you have a subscription or not, you can contact BMW and provide your information and authorize them to track the vehicle for the authorities. This deters would be car thieves from targeting modern BMWs. Not saying they wonÂ’t happen, but it requires additional tools and knowledge that most thieves donÂ’t put effort into.

I can understand and respect your dislike of the styling. Vehicles arenÂ’t made to please everyone because itÂ’s impossible. TheyÂ’re made to please the majority so there will always be people who dislike styling of any vehicle.

One last thing to rant about, you may think Toyota may have been more practical when it comes to a DD, but this is subjective. They both have damn near ode ticket storage capacity, with the Supra having the advantage with the trunk being integrated with the cabin like Nissan does with their Zs and Chevy with the corvette. However, their body design has one of the largest flaws when it comes to coupes and thatÂ’s wind buffeting with the windows down. This has been brought up by almost every car review of the Supra. At speeds above 45mph, there is an unbearable wind buffeting in the cabin and the windows need to be put up to prevent it. The Z4 doesnÂ’t have this issue with the top up and windows down, even at highways speeds of 70+ mph. Again, this is subjective as some would never have the windows down at speeds above 45mph so it may not be an issue for them. For me, thatÂ’d be problematic because living in Florida, window down weather comes and goes so the top doesnÂ’t always go down when driving.
The fact that it doesn't come with AWD is just a reinforcement that it is indeed a summer toy or for warmer climate only. I was talking about the previous Z4. BMW knows that a soft top will not work in the winter, hence since there is no hard top there is no AWD either. Logic and straight to my point.

In regards with the heat loss, please, let's leave it where it is. There is heat loss, there is a problem and there is also a problem with the temperature difference between the two environments. There are problems with leaks, condensation, and moisture after shut off the engine at - low temps. That's why I am saying that is not a winter car.
The previous hard-top model with awd was suitable as an all-year rounder. The new one is not.

At -45C that roof will crack in time. Your comparison with "not maintained paint" is a joke I hope. No paint will crack at that temperature and never cracked in any car I have ever owned, including some that stayed literally outside in -40 all their life (I can put pictures with car at -45 outside and the day I sold it so you can see the paint like in the first day). There is no "maintenance" required. In fact the vert requires more maintenance. I am a maintenance freak, and the paint never required a "maintenance". Paint cracks only on areas where it was an accident and was repaired with crap filler that was added to repair. A proper repaired area will never crack.

The roof has reinforcements but it can be easy cut. A cut just to open the vehicle is enough, don't need to work hard to get in. It is much easier to steal it.
Most cars have sensors today but when Police gives it back to you after 3 months full of forensic ink and damaged, I rather not find it ever than receive a damaged car.

The body is without any doubt solid, yet, try it in cold, park it at some -10 outside, let it freeze and then go over a road bump or take it out of the driveway with one wheel at the time and you will hear your top twisting. Common, you can't deny the structural differences.

In regards with Toyota, I said that is more practical and I believe that they were smarter for offering a Coupe style. A vert is a very minimal niche, a Coupe is a much wider niche and address to a wider spectrum of customers. Either way, I do not like the design anyway.

Again, nice vehicle for the ones who live in warm climate but not a good year-rounder for the rest. With the soft only and no AWD, BMW clearly underlined this statement.
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      01-01-2020, 03:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj428x View Post
If your concern is staying warm in the winter or even considering driving it in -45 C temperature, you are clearly missing the point of this beautiful car. If its too cold to have the top down, the car stays in the garage. Living in NJ unfortunately this will not be a year round car for me but only time the top will be closed is if I'm stuck in traffic and it gets too hot. After having a hard top convertible for 7 years I can't wait to have a top that can be closed while driving.
You just reiterated what I was saying. Not a good car for cold climate. Thank you.
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      01-02-2020, 08:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
The fact that it doesn't come with AWD is just a reinforcement that it is indeed a summer toy or for warmer climate only. I was talking about the previous Z4. BMW knows that a soft top will not work in the winter, hence since there is no hard top there is no AWD either. Logic and straight to my point.

In regards with the heat loss, please, let's leave it where it is. There is heat loss, there is a problem and there is also a problem with the temperature difference between the two environments. There are problems with leaks, condensation, and moisture after shut off the engine at - low temps. That's why I am saying that is not a winter car.
The previous hard-top model with awd was suitable as an all-year rounder. The new one is not.

At -45C that roof will crack in time. Your comparison with "not maintained paint" is a joke I hope. No paint will crack at that temperature and never cracked in any car I have ever owned, including some that stayed literally outside in -40 all their life (I can put pictures with car at -45 outside and the day I sold it so you can see the paint like in the first day). There is no "maintenance" required. In fact the vert requires more maintenance. I am a maintenance freak, and the paint never required a "maintenance". Paint cracks only on areas where it was an accident and was repaired with crap filler that was added to repair. A proper repaired area will never crack.

The roof has reinforcements but it can be easy cut. A cut just to open the vehicle is enough, don't need to work hard to get in. It is much easier to steal it.
Most cars have sensors today but when Police gives it back to you after 3 months full of forensic ink and damaged, I rather not find it ever than receive a damaged car.

The body is without any doubt solid, yet, try it in cold, park it at some -10 outside, let it freeze and then go over a road bump or take it out of the driveway with one wheel at the time and you will hear your top twisting. Common, you can't deny the structural differences.

In regards with Toyota, I said that is more practical and I believe that they were smarter for offering a Coupe style. A vert is a very minimal niche, a Coupe is a much wider niche and address to a wider spectrum of customers. Either way, I do not like the design anyway.

Again, nice vehicle for the ones who live in warm climate but not a good year-rounder for the rest. With the soft only and no AWD, BMW clearly underlined this statement.
Hold up, because it doesn't come with AWD is one of the primary reasons it's considered NOT a winter car? How do you explain all of the trucks, SUVs and cars that are only RWD or FWD then? You're telling me, that because all of the wheels are not driven on these vehicles, that 55% of vehicles sold now a days are not meant for cold weather (Edmunds)? This data is also from 2018 which is still fairly recent. AWD and 4WD have been around for decades now, but costs have only become more reasonable, popularity with the technology, and more refined implementations explain the increase in their uses in today's market. Let us also look at the fact this is a touring roadster designed to carve canyons and, yes, even provide some fun on the track. This is difficult to do when the car is not balanced and have the correct proportions. The G29 Z4 has a weight distribution of 50.6% front/49.4% rear (BMWUSA) which means it is damn near perfectly balanced at 50/50 and this is with the m40i model with the heavier engine in the front. Adding an AWD system would push this balance towards the nose of the car making it less capable for its intended use, so why would BMW add something that would negate the intended use of the vehicle? Doesn't make any logical sense and would've killed the business case before it got started. If you want to also argue that a soft top only option proves that BMW didn't intend for this car to be used in cold climates, then explain why the Supra (the exact twin of this car structurally), who is only offered with a solid roof, doesn't offer AWD? Put some proper snow/winter tires on any drive configuration and the vehicle becomes a capable winter vehicle. All season tires don't cut it and I don't recommend using them unless a second set of wheels and tires is not an option.

The "not maintained paint" was definitely not a joke. Whether it is extreme cold or extreme heat, paint and clear coat will not hold up to the elements by themselves (City Collision Center). Paint and cloth tops need to be regularly cleaned and maintained both in snow, cloud covered, or sun to prevent fading, cracking, and peeling/ripping. This is just from a quick google search, and I'm sure you can speak to any reputable body shop and they will also recommend proper maintenance in the winter (even if that maintenance is washing your car weekly/biweekly/monthly). Think of it like this: You use a brush to remove the snow from the roof of a vehicle. If that snow has sat for a little, the bottom layer becomes ice and not it's not just the bristles of the brush scratching the clear coat but the ice as well that is being pushed off the roof. Now you have a compromised clear coat for the road salt and slush to get into and can cause rusting, bubbling, and warping. I'm assuming that you took care of your paint on any of your vehicles you have pictures of from brand new to the day you sold it, and you didn't realize you did so. Washing your vehicle in winter is considered maintenance of the paint. When you wash the vehicle, whether by hand or automatic car wash, you probably (most likely as this is what I did and most people do from my experience in the winter) selected a wash cycle or a soap that already included some type of wax additive. Wax is another layer of protection for the paint.

The ragtop is easily cut. We got that and established it already. A window is just as easily broken, or a prybar to the door handle (ask me how I know this and I'll point you to my '06 dakota being broken into with the prybar method). Either way, once the top is cut, or the window is smashed, the alarm will sound once movement is detected in the interior or the door is opened. Whether or not this deters a thief is another story and whether or not the alarm going off will alert passerbys that are willing to intervene is also another story. If the vehicle is stolen by any method, and it is found and returned, that is what insurance is for to repair the vehicle back to normal. You can even tell your insurance company to take it to a repair center and have it repaired back to new (if the damage hasn't exceeded the salvage value) so you never have to see it in this disrepair state. It's not like the cops find your car, throw it on a flat bed, then drop it in your driveway.

The structural differences between a solid roof, a moonroof, and a convertible are all different and provide different sheer strength. Definitely. I agree 100% with you. A solid roof (moonroof delete) provides more structural rigidity. My wife's '19 x3 with the giant glass panel overhead makes a creak noise when pulling out of my driveway and off the sidewalk in cold weather. Always worries me that the glass top just cracked and is going to rain glass on my baby in the back seat. Why I always keep the mesh cover closed until I'm already driving on the road and re-close when I park. My '20 Z4 doesn't make any creaking noise when I pull out of my driveway. Same temperatures, some angles, same departure location as the x3 even. This is one hellava solid roof and locking mechanism that they implemented. Out of the norm, for sure. And yes, I have to pull out of my driveway at an angle because my driveway is a 15 degree incline and the front lip of the z4 scraped if going straight out.

I agree that convertibles is a smaller niche than coupes. Even more so than 2 seat roadsters being a small niche itself. The Z4 does have both niches working against it and helps explain the small sales numbers compared to mainstream vehicles like the 3 series (not to mention pricing, but the new 3 series is close on the Z4's heels now). BMW could've increased sales by offering a hard top convertible or even a coupe. But the cost of R&D for these areas would not have justified the increased sales numbers. Convertible owners may prefer a hard top, but a soft top wasn't a deal breaker in most instances is what I'm assuming based on BMW's market research. Maybe they could've somehow incorporated the coupe design of the Supra into the Z4, but I'd be more inclined to believe it wouldn't have been a cut and paste thing based on the body styling of both vehicles, even down to the rear hatch and back bumper so doing so would've required a different design language between the coupe and the 'verts, which again would've increased R&D costs without justifying increased sales numbers (because of that 2 seat roadster niche). Extra R&D costs only work with broad markets like the 4 series coupe vs the 4 series GT.

I get it, this car isn't for everyone and at first I didn't like the front end design language based on pictures. I was at a dealership just last week that had every color Z4 M40i under the sun (even the frozen grey) and I'm really glad I got the San Fran Red. Pictures don't do this car justice. It has to be seen in person. Similarly to the Supra. I'm not a fan of it's looks through pictures, but I've never seen one in person and I'm sure it looks great then. Colors also make or break this car, just like any other car (except the damn Challenger which looks good in any color for some God forsaken reason). For me, the Blue was polarizing and beautiful, but the Cerium Grey accents in the front and and the mirrors didn't go well with the vehicle and made me dislike it. The black and silver were mediocre, but again the Cerium Grey made them look dumb. Frozen grey wasn't bad, but I firmly believe it had to do with the Cerium Grey wheels to match the accent pieces and the moonlight top. It'd look off if it had a solid black top, black wheels, and Cerium Grey accents like the other colors did. BMW design on this car did good, but the new design language with the Cerium Grey on anything "Mx0i" designated is a really poor decision in my book. They could've at least made it easier to clean so it didn't leave water streaks after it rains. I don't keep a buffing clothe and a bottle of waterless wash in my car after all.

References:
Edmunds: https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/a...to-choose.html

BMWUSA: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/z4/r...-features.html (click "specifications" and scroll down)

CityCollisionCenter: https://www.citycollisioncenter.net/.../paint-winter/

Last edited by Joe240; 01-02-2020 at 08:30 AM..
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      01-02-2020, 08:34 AM   #37
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When I was single, I use to drive a Mazda MX-5 Miata year round in Munich, Germany, for 3 years. I did use proper winter tires in winter, and I did have a garage both at home and at work. And it wasn’t outside in minus 45 - but it was perfectly ok to drive. Had a couple of snow events with several inches on the road and traffic coming to a stand still, no issues. That wasn’t an AWD car, just like the previous Z4 wasn’t.

Ironically, I had an issue in summer once or twice with the MX-5: the AC couldn’t keep up when it was really hot and I was stuck in a traffic jam/stop and go traffic. Not sure if it iced up or required the car to move, never bothered to figure it out, but was literally melting in my ‘summer’ car.
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      01-02-2020, 12:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe240 View Post
Hold ups, ….
Too many thinks wrong in your post, too many deviations from each idea with wrong suggestions and divagations (like the FWD not being a snow car which I never said, regardless we are talking about a RWD which is THE WORSE in winter), and too many other interpretations (like the paint protection which is at the total opposite poll, paint never requires the same care and never will, and I have an extensive knowledge in body shop and materials as I was racing in Europe and the car was repaired constantly; won't read your article anyway, I probably know a lot more than these guys), or weight distribution (never said anything about the weight distribution and even the majority xDrive's nowadays have a near perfect weight distribution with some reaching the balance and there is no nose down; not to mention in the snow front overhang doesn't matter in an AWD, and never mattered in a FWD, but in a RWD of course that you need weight on the back, otherwise in the winter you will put sand bags in your trunk),etc. Stop pushing you own agenda in this. Not sure if that you are deviate intentionally or you really don't get the difference between RWD and FWD in the snow (in which case we shouldn't talk at all)...
Just because of your interpretations, I am not going to go ahead in this debate, it is futile and serve me no purpose.
Enjoy your car.
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      01-02-2020, 01:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe240 View Post
Hold ups, ….
Too many thinks wrong in your post, too many deviations from each idea with wrong suggestions and divagations (like the FWD not being a snow car which I never said, regardless we are talking about a RWD which is THE WORSE in winter), and too many other interpretations (like the paint protection which is at the total opposite poll, paint never requires the same care and never will, and I have an extensive knowledge in body shop and materials as I was racing in Europe and the car was repaired constantly; won't read your article anyway, I probably know a lot more than these guys), or weight distribution (never said anything about the weight distribution and even the majority xDrive's nowadays have a near perfect weight distribution with some reaching the balance and there is no nose down; not to mention in the snow front overhang doesn't matter in an AWD, and never mattered in a FWD, but in a RWD of course that you need weight on the back, otherwise in the winter you will put sand bags in your trunk),etc. Stop pushing you own agenda in this. Not sure if that you are deviate intentionally or you really don't get the difference between RWD and FWD in the snow (in which case we shouldn't talk at all)...
Just because of your interpretations, I am not going to go ahead in this debate, it is futile and serve me no purpose.
Enjoy your car.
I mentioned FWD vehicles because you stated that this car NOT offering AWD was a clear indication of it not being a winter car. FWD is not AWD, therefore FWD and RWD would be equals in your statement strictly because neither is AWD, which from what you've stated is a requirement of a winter climate vehicle.

Of course paint requires different care than a soft top, but it requires care none the less. And never assume you know more about someone in a specific area when you are not a professional in that area. Just because you were a "European racer" who had a frequently wrecked car doesn't mean you have more knowledge. Now, I can't vouche for their level of knowledge, but since they ARE an operational body shop I can assume their knowledge is relatively accurate in the matter.

Yes, a lot of xDrive cars are near 50/50, but not as close as the G29 is. 2-series coupe xDrive is 54.2/45.8, which means that there's an extra 123lbs in the nose of the car than normal (4.2% of 3662lbs). Or the 4-series coupe which is 53/47. Closer, but still 113lbs extra in the nose (3% of 3790lbs). I don't believe there is a single xDrive model that is as close to 50/50 as the G29 in car format with the larger motor in it. And have you tried hard corners in an xDrive? They definitely nose down under harder corners. Trust me, I've driven an m240ix, 340ix, 750ix, and m850ix all nose dive under harder corners. Won't mention the x3 M40i or any other suv because nose dives there are fairly common due to the weight of the vehicle.

Not sure where you think I'm pushing any agenda. I'm pushing facts about vehicles. If there is an agenda here, it's to educate and infuriate I've lived in Germany for 3 years with both xDrive and fwd. Both handle like shit with all seasons, both handled great with snow tires. I lived in northern Illinois (basically Wisconsin boarder) where we got feet of snow for years and drove a RWD truck. I understand the sandbags and salt bags being added to the back driven wheels. That was because the truck wasn't 4WD and had all seasons on it with the majority of the truck weight in the front. I understand the dynamics of driving in the snow and on black ice. Everything I have said was in connection to points you have stated yourself. Why I separate topics by paragraphs to match your comments. :
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      01-03-2020, 12:06 PM   #40
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Wow, not sure how this thread got into a Z4 bash fest.

For the record;

- The Boxster does own the segment but the price is nowhere near similar to the Z4 - it's a 45% premium for the P car when I priced them both out. Frankly I think the Z4 M40i is a bargain.....is a 'vette cheaper? Maybe but I don't want a 'vette.....the same argument for value of the 'vette can be had against virtually every other sportscar on the market; yes it's a good car and it's cheap.....no reason for anyone to buy a BMW, Porsche, Audi, Maserati, Ferrari, etc. etc.....let's just all buy Corvettes! ;-)

- I prefer the soft top for my use and I think they did well to go in that direction; I don't need/want a folding hardtop with the extra weight and complexity for what is a fair weather toy in my case.

- blah, blah, blah, I like the way the Z4 looks; it's the best looking 2 seat roadster on the market IMO with the Boxster and F type rounding out the top three.....don't like it? don't buy one.

- not sure why threads on the Z4 forum need to be constantly diluted by OT blather from people who have no intention of owning one.


Cheers,
Dave

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      01-03-2020, 12:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Glad you enjoy it.
I personally find the cloth in top to be very unattractive, like we did not evolved at all since 1800 when doctors had that cloth on their carriages. It never looked as it belonged to a car regardless of how much they tried. That material also fades, cracks and is hard to wash in certain cases.
Regardless of that, is unable to retain the interior temperature and stop the exterior noise. Where I live -45 C are a certainty, the AWD will not help if I will freeze inside. At that temperature, the cloth will most likely have some structural damage, especially in a vehicle like this where the body frame twist more than a normal vehicle. The blower will work harder and all the time at a high speed to keep up with the demand. Even so, the cloth has a hard life to cope as is the single barrier between two different temperatures.
In time problems arise, as is also unable to seal properly anymore with the rest of the body
In top of that, it can always be cut to have your belongings stolen, the vehicle vandalized or stolen. My cousin Z3 was stolen that way.

As mentioned before, I don’t see that BMW design so I don’t like it and is not practical for some. Yeah California, cool. Canada? Not really. And since will be a toy anyway, then as a summer toy I truly prefer the M2 instead as it is the new E46, RWD and with a proper BMW design and a small and strong carozzeria. But not everyone has a budget or the space for a such toy. I know two people that use old Z4 as a daily driver, but the new one is out of their books. I think Toyota was more practical in here.
Is true, is cute, but I personally like the old Z4 a lot more in terms of design.
I disagree with absolutely everything you've said. :-) ....and the new Z4 looks better and outperforms all previous versions in every way IMO. M4? nice car but apples to bananas; I want a 2 seat convertible sportscar not a sedan.

Cheers,
Dave
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      01-03-2020, 01:30 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
Wow, not sure how this thread got into a Z4 bash fest.

For the record;

- The Boxster does own the segment but the price is nowhere near similar to the Z4 - it's a 43% premium for the P car when I priced them both out. Frankly I think the Z4 M40i is a bargain.....is a 'vette cheaper? Maybe but I don't want a 'vette.....the same argument for value of the 'vette can be had against virtually every other sportscar on the market; yes it's a good car and it's cheap.....no reason for anyone to buy a BMW, Porsche, Audi, Maserati, Ferrari, etc. etc.....let's just all buy Corvettes! ;-)

- I prefer the soft top for my use and I think they did well to go in that direction; I don't need/want a folding hardtop with the extra weight and complexity for what is a fair weather toy in my case.

- blah, blah, blah, I like the way the Z4 looks; it's the best looking 2 seat roadster on the market IMO with the Boxster and F type rounding out the top three.....don't like it? don't buy one.

- not sure why threads on the Z4 forum need to be constantly diluted by OT blather from people who have no intention of owning one.


Cheers,
Dave
I own a G29! And leased an E89 in the past!
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      01-03-2020, 01:33 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by CeEl View Post
I own a G29! And leased an E89 in the past!
my comment wasn't aimed at you. :-)

Dave
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      01-03-2020, 01:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Soft-tops are absolutely timeless.

Folding Hard-tops are completely played, and went out hard like Disco.
Agreed; I had an SLK with a retractable hardtop and an F type with the soft top and MUCH preferred the soft top; the HT was heavy and took up a bunch of space......the SLK has been discontinued too FWIW. I looked at an M4 with the HT 'vert but didn't like the weight penalty.

....I'd also suggest that there is a good reason you won't find a Porsche with a retractable hardtop. With todays insulation and fabrics, the soft tops are quieter and better insulated than ever. For me, my car is a fair weather car only and I drive it 90% of the time with the top down (that's why I bought it). I guess I could understand someone wanting the retractable HT if it was a year round driver, but then, I wouldn't use a 2 seat, RWD sportscar for that in my climate anyhow.



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