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      09-19-2018, 06:46 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Curious what changes were made to the B58 from the M240 version for that extra HP.
Well they've definitely revised the head considering the turbo exhaust manifold is now integrated/water cooled.

Somebody on the Supra Forum noticed a difference on that side of the head just from engine bay shots with the cover still on. Good on them.
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      09-19-2018, 07:41 AM   #46
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Now if I could just get some idea of when dealers will get build sheets, and I can reserve an allocation. Looks like a 2020 Z4 M40i in Frozen Grey shall be sitting in my garage, just in time for the gorgeous autumn weather here in Tennessee.
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      09-19-2018, 08:36 AM   #47
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      09-19-2018, 08:36 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZHPsedan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Curious what changes were made to the B58 from the M240 version for that extra HP.
Well they've definitely revised the head considering the turbo exhaust manifold is now integrated/water cooled.

Somebody on the Supra Forum noticed a difference on that side of the head just from engine bay shots with the cover still on. Good on them.
Minus that, probably not a lot. The power kit for the 340 puts out 355hp with the same tq. Bmw is just probably unleashing it's potential.
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      09-19-2018, 08:56 AM   #49
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BMW said this new Z4 will be lighter than its predecessor.

But the weight of the G29 30i is the same (1490kg) as the E89 28i (1495kg) - comparing both with automatic transmission.

So where did the weight savings of the softop go?

I owned a E89 23i (not available in the US market) and it had a NA 2.5L straight-6, it weighed 1480kg. Which is exactly the same as the current G29 20i and both have very similair performance stats (identical 0-62).

But I thought sacrificing the hard folding top for a soft top would bring the weight down significantly.
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      09-19-2018, 09:18 AM   #50
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No manual is definitely disappointing, but I am actually pretty excited for this car. Glad to see they put a locking diff in it especially since it seems there will be no "true" M version of this. Performance wise I think this car will be a whoot to drive!
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      09-19-2018, 09:21 AM   #51
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      09-19-2018, 09:35 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozich View Post
BMW said this new Z4 will be lighter than its predecessor.

But the weight of the G29 30i is the same (1490kg) as the E89 28i (1495kg) - comparing both with automatic transmission.

So where did the weight savings of the softop go?

I owned a E89 23i (not available in the US market) and it had a NA 2.5L straight-6, it weighed 1480kg. Which is exactly the same as the current G29 20i and both have very similair performance stats (identical 0-62).

But I thought sacrificing the hard folding top for a soft top would bring the weight down significantly.
G29 30i is the same (1490kg) as the E89 28i (1495kg)

it is lighter, by 5 kg
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      09-19-2018, 10:16 AM   #53
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My m4 comes off lease in 2021. Although it’s early yet my next car will possibly be a cayman gts. If this car can come close to Porsche like handling and performance and eventually sports a manual I will be very interested. I am anxiously waiting for real and critical drive reviews. The pictures mean little to me. I’d like a more driver focused sports car than luxury car next. Wonder if this will be that. Handling is very important to me.
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      09-19-2018, 10:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
Minus that, probably not a lot. The power kit for the 340 puts out 355hp with the same tq. Bmw is just probably unleashing it's potential.
Yep, you're probably right. That head redesign was probably more to do with decreased emissions than anything. Sounds like it might have a slightly different turbo to get to that 382 number compared to the 355 that's already in production in the M40i. That or the higher pressure fuel system.
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      09-19-2018, 11:01 AM   #55
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I would only consider this car if was a hard top
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      09-19-2018, 11:16 AM   #56
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I would only consider this car if was a hard top
Thankfully Toyota has made one
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      09-19-2018, 12:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
Oh wow, I wasn't able to see some of those specs earlier. There isn't a weight for the M40i but given the other weight it seems it can't be that much lighter than an M4. Maybe 150lbs lighter? That's crazy.

huh? what do you mean "that much lighter"? The standard M4 weighs 3625...the Z4 will have about a 200 to 300 lb difference in weight and is very substantial
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      09-19-2018, 12:40 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
Hadn't it been previously reported that the Z4 would get an optional MT, while the Supra would be auto-only?
That's what I read too a year ago. People here are jumping to conclusions that because the launch won't have a MT, the MT is completely gone.

Traditionally, BMW have always used the words such as "exclusively in DCT" or something to that effect to signal no MT option will ever be available. Until they confirm it, I wouldn't assume that the MT model is dead.
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      09-19-2018, 12:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
What's a water cooled exhaust manifold?
They run coolant through the exhaust manifold (which is built into the cylinder head) to help control the temperatures to prevent it from getting too hot when under extreme duress. Overall it reduces emissions by preventing the catalytic converter from running too hot by allowing it to operate at a more effective operating temperature. It also helps get the engine up to temp earlier.
Does the cooled exhaust manifold give any advantages to the turbo? Perhaps reducing transfer of heat from the exhaust turbine to the compressor turbine?
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      09-19-2018, 01:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
Hadn't it been previously reported that the Z4 would get an optional MT, while the Supra would be auto-only?
That's what I read too a year ago. People here are jumping to conclusions that because the launch won't have a MT, the MT is completely gone.

Traditionally, BMW have always used the words such as "exclusively in DCT" or something to that effect to signal no MT option will ever be available. Until they confirm it, I wouldn't assume that the MT model is dead.
Outside of M cars, it would be the only manual BMW in the US once the G20 starts production. I'd say odds of a manual Z4 have been greatly reduced recently.

Further, I'd just get an ND Miata over a 30i Z4. Save $20k, 800 plus pounds and get a full set of pedals.
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      09-19-2018, 01:29 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Further, I'd just get an ND Miata over a 30i Z4. Save $20k, 800 plus pounds and get a full set of pedals.
Not even close to similar cars. Totally different driving dynamics and power. If you must have a manual, then that is about your only option these days in a convertible. But can you live with the rest of the Mazda-ness? I owned a previous generation MX-5 and only kept it a few months. Cheaply made and cheap feeling to drive. Not very pleasant IMO.
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      09-19-2018, 01:31 PM   #62
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btw, Toyota obviously timed journalist releases of the new Supra reviews at the same time:

https://jalopnik.com/2019-toyota-sup...-to-1829117407

Here's a general driving impression review of the M40i with "Toyota engine tuning".

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      09-19-2018, 01:34 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfonseexists View Post
My m4 comes off lease in 2021. Although it’s early yet my next car will possibly be a cayman gts. If this car can come close to Porsche like handling and performance and eventually sports a manual I will be very interested. I am anxiously waiting for real and critical drive reviews. The pictures mean little to me. I’d like a more driver focused sports car than luxury car next. Wonder if this will be that. Handling is very important to me.
It appears based on specs, the Z4 will be competing against the base Boxster and Boxster S (Supra will compete with the Cayman and Cayman S). It's hard to say really as the Porsches all weigh less than 3000 lbs, but also gives up around 50 HP. None of the specs match up closely between the BMW and Porsche.

The Cayman GTS (based on performance figures alone like a sub-4 0-60) may not be a direct competitor, unless BMW makes a M version.

BTW, I've driven the 718 GTS. The car has very good quickness (up to 90 MPHs), but runs out of breath at higher speeds. The sports exhaust and turbo sounds (and the top down) gives the impression that you're going really fast. But I suppose the point of the car is its agility and not straight line speed. I'm just used to my sledgehammer S63B44 motor I suppose, but the 718 doesn't feel like it's a better car even than the E90 M3 IMO.
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      09-19-2018, 01:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgeorge0049 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Further, I'd just get an ND Miata over a 30i Z4. Save $20k, 800 plus pounds and get a full set of pedals.
Not even close to similar cars. Totally different driving dynamics and power. If you must have a manual, then that is about your only option these days in a convertible. But can you live with the rest of the Mazda-ness? I owned a previous generation MX-5 and only kept it a few months. Cheaply made and cheap feeling to drive. Not very pleasant IMO.
Yep, I've owned Miatas and a Z3 M Coupe as well as a number of other Mazdas and BMW's.

I'd guess a Z4 30i won't be any quicker than a 181hp ND and the weight will be a constant hindrance to handling, maintenance and efficiency.

Now let's keep it fair, the M40i is a different thing. For the same reason I sold my NB Miata and bought my M Coupe, power fixes lots of things.

But amusingly, that BMW had many cheaper plastics than my Miata, had some comically dumb design choices (like 8h to replace rear shock mounts made out of marshmallows?) and still had some handling issues on the track that the Miata didn't.

Same goes for current Mazdas. There were areas that my last 2016 Mazda was both more entertaining to drive and had nicer materials than our F30.

I admit that an ND is wildly more elemental and spartan than the new Z4, but to dismiss it because it's a Miata or has less power but a nearly identical power to weight ratio is a bit silly.
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      09-19-2018, 01:58 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfonseexists View Post
My m4 comes off lease in 2021. Although it's early yet my next car will possibly be a cayman gts. If this car can come close to Porsche like handling and performance and eventually sports a manual I will be very interested. I am anxiously waiting for real and critical drive reviews. The pictures mean little to me. I'd like a more driver focused sports car than luxury car next. Wonder if this will be that. Handling is very important to me.
It appears based on specs, the Z4 will be competing against the base Boxster and Boxster S (Supra will compete with the Cayman and Cayman S). It's hard to say really as the Porsches all weigh less than 3000 lbs, but also gives up around 50 HP. None of the specs match up closely between the BMW and Porsche.

The Cayman GTS (based on performance figures alone like a sub-4 0-60) may not be a direct competitor, unless BMW makes a M version.

BTW, I've driven the 718 GTS. The car has very good quickness (up to 90 MPHs), but runs out of breath at higher speeds. The sports exhaust and turbo sounds (and the top down) gives the impression that you're going really fast. But I suppose the point of the car is its agility and not straight line speed. I'm just used to my sledgehammer S63B44 motor I suppose, but the 718 doesn't feel like it's a better car even than the E90 M3 IMO.
The part about acceleration over 90 strikes me as odd. Just using DCT/PDK times for a Cayman S, M4 CS and M2 shows 100-150 mph times of 14.1, 13.3 and 19.0 seconds. So a GTS should bridge most of that gap to an M4 CS, which isn't exactly a slow car.
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      09-19-2018, 02:17 PM   #66
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Quote:
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The part about acceleration over 90 strikes me as odd. Just using DCT/PDK times for a Cayman S, M4 CS and M2 shows 100-150 mph times of 14.1, 13.3 and 19.0 seconds. So a GTS should bridge most of that gap to an M4 CS, which isn't exactly a slow car.
I think it's my perspective relativity of my comparisons. I'm comparing against my V8 twin turbo car.
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