F1 2021: Hungarian GP - Budapest (Aug 1)

GuidoK · 08-06-2021, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKSixer

1. If HAM is only partly, though predominantly responsible, that means VER is partly but not predominantly responsible. It means that VER bears some, though minimal responsibility. This turns your 2nd statement into VER fanboiz foolishness.

No it doesn't turn it into fanboys foolishness.
Predominantly responsible means exactly that, that he's more at fault. The majority of the blame.
Therefore he should feel more of the guilt. He sure didn't show that during celebration.
Not only because he rammed someone off, but because it was also the race leader and his biggest competitor.
It is not comparable with the GRO crash.

Quote:

2. Copse isn't the fastest corner in F1. It's Signes at Paul Ricard which is colossally faster than Copse. Even 130R at Suzuka is faster. More Red Bullying Racing Maxi-Pad fanboiz hyperbole.

You type like a 14 year old....

Quote:

3. That is all.

yup.

racerbruce · 08-06-2021, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

There is of course the difference that Grosjean drove off the track due to his own fault (he made a very strange maneuvre from left to right, even cutting off/crashing into kvyat), whereas VER got rammed off by HAM (and HAM getting a penalty for that).
Nobody was at fault for Grosjean's crash (except himself), but we can't say that about Verstappen's crash (even the FIA statement says it was predominantly HAM's fault).

So there is that regarding the 'hypocrisy'
The hypocrisy here is celebrating your victory that you got by ramming the race leader (and biggest competitor) off the track in the fastest corner of F1, not celebrating a victory while someone else got hurt by an unrelated incident (where no one was 'guilty').

VER had HAM next to him when VER intentionally pinched off the entry to the right hand Copse turn and VER was fully aware that closing the door into the apex would cause a massive shunt....

The child does not understand anything other than full-elbows-out at any poor unsuspecting soul that finds themselves next to the child's car....

The two most recent egregious examples were at the last race:

-The child banging his car against the back-marker SCH
-The child intentionally moving in the braking zone twice to block RAI and nearly causing a massive shunt

MKSixer · 08-06-2021, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

No it doesn't turn it into fanboys foolishness.
Predominantly responsible means exactly that, that he's more at fault. The majority of the blame.
Therefore he should feel more of the guilt. He sure didn't show that during celebration.
Not only because he rammed someone off, but because it was also the race leader and his biggest competitor.
It is not comparable with the GRO crash.

You type like a 14 year old....

yup.

So...based on YOUR statement VER should feel a bit of guilt, as well. Did he? Absolutely not. Maxi Pad, Darth Marko and Karen Horner blamed Sir Lewis fully for the incident even in light of evidence and a ruling to the contrary.

I type like someone who knows what he is talking about. You support a team which is a blight on the sport and has been for YEARS. They even say, "We're the bad boys in F1". -Karen Horner, F1 DTS.

SenorFunkyPants · 08-06-2021, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

So there is that regarding the 'hypocrisy'
The hypocrisy here is celebrating your victory that you got by ramming the race leader (and biggest competitor) off the track in the fastest corner of F1, not celebrating a victory while someone else got hurt by an unrelated incident (where no one was 'guilty').

Thats not hypocrisy...it could be called a few things but not hypocrisy. A little crass perhaps?

Hypocrisy "the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."
In this case... Verstappen criticising a driver for celebrating a victory while he was in hospital, having done the same thing himself the previous year.

Trying to say that a driver can celebrate a victory while another is seriously hurt in hospital is fine and dandy as long as it wasn't anyones fault...just doesn't wash.

Ngilbe36 · 08-06-2021, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Thats not hypocrisy...it could be called a few things but not hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy "the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."
In this case... Verstappen criticising a driver for celebrating a victory while he was in hospital, having done the same thing himself the previous year.

Trying to say that a driver can celebrate a victory while another is seriously hurt in hospital is fine and dandy as long as it wasn't anyones fault...just doesn't wash.

You should always wash your Netherlands.

Sorry, couldnt help myself

M5Rick · 08-06-2021, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKSixer

This type of thinking says so much about you. It's call projection.

Because you would perpetrate an act, you believe that everyone would do the same.

No,the projection is from you.I know you so well trying always to shift the argument with some business type speak. We're not in the boardroom or meeting now so lets stick to the subject of Ham and Bots deliberate ramming but let's calm down first

M5Rick · 08-06-2021, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Lets just get some data here and we can all stop going back and forth.

1. Ham
2. Ver
3. Alb

There was celebration by both teams and all three drivers, but it was somewhat muted compared to normal IMO.

Ham celebrating on the podium with Max and champers going KNOWING that Gro had just burns on back of a hand and in no danger, thank you Ngilbe36

tdott · 08-06-2021, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

..so lets stick to the subject of Ham and Bots deliberate ramming but let's calm down first

Let us know when you have some evidence it was deliberate, I'm sure the stewards would like to see it also.

Until then, the results stand.

MKSixer · 08-06-2021, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

No,the projection is from you.I know you so well trying always to shift the argument with some business type speak. We're not in the boardroom or meeting now so lets stick to the subject of Ham and Bots deliberate ramming but let's calm down first

You mean clear and concise language which actually describes the problem in detail? Try reading the FIA rulings at times. They are even more granular than my "business type speak". It's because you can't and shouldn't use street language or colloquialisms to express complex ideas.

Ngilbe36 · 08-06-2021, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKSixer

You mean clear and concise language which actually describes the problem in detail? Try reading the FIA rulings at times. They are even more granular than my "business type speak". It's because you can't and shouldn't use street language or colloquialisms to express complex ideas.

Aligned. The most productive engineers I work with all speak clearly and concisely with details, and evidence so there is no room for interpretation in their communication. I cannot speak for the business world, but in engineering, evidence comes from data, not opinions.

yco · 08-06-2021, 11:30 AM

when you just take a look Max's clashes so far.. he is just paying his karma.. and have to say there is more to come.. very likely..

GuidoK · 08-06-2021, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

In this case... Verstappen criticising a driver for celebrating a victory while he was in hospital, having done the same thing himself the previous year.

Trying to say that a driver can celebrate a victory while another is seriously hurt in hospital is fine and dandy as long as it wasn't anyones fault...just doesn't wash.

That was not the gist of how VER criticized HAM.

VER said: "[It is] disrespectful if one guy is in the hospital and the other one is waving the flag around like nothing has happened while you push the guy into the wall with 51G,"

So there is definately a link between the celebration of the win and the blame of pushing someone off track in how VER put his words.

So the event how GRO hurt himself is very much different to VER point.

racerbruce · 08-06-2021, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That was not the gist of how VER criticized HAM.

VER said: "[It is] disrespectful if one guy is in the hospital and the other one is waving the flag around like nothing has happened while you push the guy into the wall with 51G,"

So there is definately a link between the celebration of the win and the blame of pushing someone off track in how VER put his words.

So the event how GRO hurt himself is very much different to VER point.

VER caused his own shunt.

M5Rick · 08-06-2021, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That was not the gist of how VER criticized HAM.

VER said: "[It is] disrespectful if one guy is in the hospital and the other one is waving the flag around like nothing has happened while you push the guy into the wall with 51G,"

So there is definately a link between the celebration of the win and the blame of pushing someone off track in how VER put his words.

So the event how GRO hurt himself is very much different to VER point.

He wouldn't know what's what if you put it in front of him in one foot high letters.

M5Rick · 08-06-2021, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerbruce

VER caused his own shunt.

You know nothing of F1 and how the driving differs there from other forms of motorsports.

Ngilbe36 · 08-06-2021, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That was not the gist of how VER criticized HAM.

VER said: "[It is] disrespectful if one guy is in the hospital and the other one is waving the flag around like nothing has happened while you push the guy into the wall with 51G,"

So there is definately a link between the celebration of the win and the blame of pushing someone off track in how VER put his words.

So the event how GRO hurt himself is very much different to VER point.

So I should feel worse if I push someone and they stumble and bump their knee vs if someone dies and its not my fault. Got it

inTgr8r · 08-06-2021, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

You know nothing of F1 and how the driving differs there from other forms of motorsports.

lol... this really is comical

M5Rick · 08-06-2021, 12:15 PM

^^ You're missing the point completely and going into a dead end.

FuzzyPeaches · 08-06-2021, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

lol... this really is comical

I know, right? I give the guy credit... he's one of the best forum trolls I've ever encountered.

Steeler · 08-06-2021, 12:20 PM

Everyone must aspire to something.
Dickie has made the big leagues in his pursuit.

GuidoK · 08-06-2021, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerbruce

VER caused his own shunt.

Not according to the FIA

GuidoK · 08-06-2021, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

So I should feel worse if I push someone and they stumble and bump their knee vs if someone dies and its not my fault. Got it

No, you should feel worse when someone gets hurt by your wrongdoing vs someone gets hurt by not your wrongdoing (in fact, his own wrongdoing).
I'm amaized that you don't understand that. (or...I'm not amaized that you don't want to understand that.....)

08-06-2021, 11:30 AM	#781
yco i'm just saying 5749 Rep 2,634 Posts Drives: E71 X6M '10 (sold) Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Istanbul & Kyiv iTrader: (0)	when you just take a look Max's clashes so far.. he is just paying his karma.. and have to say there is more to come.. very likely.. __________________ "Race car driving is like sex. All guys think they're good at it." Jay Leno
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08-06-2021, 12:15 PM	#788
M5Rick General 60101 Rep 19,569 Posts Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Southern England iTrader: (0)	^^ You're missing the point completely and going into a dead end.
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08-06-2021, 12:20 PM	#790
Steeler Colonel 2429 Rep 2,704 Posts Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada iTrader: (2)	Everyone must aspire to something. Dickie has made the big leagues in his pursuit. __________________ W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
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