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      12-08-2016, 04:18 PM   #67
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I'll save my opinion because I wasn't there when he made his decision. All the best mate
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      12-08-2016, 05:04 PM   #68
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I say good on him for sticking to his goals and having the guts to see it through.

Bottas would be interesting but I don't see Williams letting him go. They are losing Massa so I would think they will be keen to keep at least one current driver in the lineup. But then again, next season is an all new car so it may be the perfect time... whatever happens it is sure going to be interesting to say the least!
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      12-08-2016, 05:57 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
So sick and tired of Hamilton and his complete lack of humility. He's just a dick. Most unlikable person on the grid. Everything with him is always sour grapes.

You can say he's a "true racing driver" or has the heart of a champion, but at the end of the day, that doesn't mean shit if you're not nice. He wants to be Senna but it ain't gonna happen when he's acting like a petulant child.
+1 . Smart move from Rosberg. I like him as person. Enjoy your life Nico and be happy ! I wanted he to become champion and he did. Hamilton is the better driver but disrespectful and arrogant. Thats not sportsmanship , thats not what I want to see in F1 driver. For that reason I dont like him.
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      12-08-2016, 05:59 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I would love to see Max in there just to REALLY ruffle Lewis' feathers.
I see Max as one of few that can beat Lewis but hope he stays with Red bull
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      12-09-2016, 08:55 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Except he completely contradicts the family excuse, when he said he wouldn't have quit if he didn't win.
He's been not winning and not quitting for the 2 previous years. When you're with the top team you don't quit.

My issue is that he will never be a multiple WDC, so he'll soon become a footnote in F1. He's stupid to leave the top team in his prime.
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      12-09-2016, 09:08 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Well a few things,

Bottas is not in the same caliber of driver as Hamilton who is one of the top four drivers to have ever lived. That list includes: Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso
.
What an absolute joke. Rosberg outperformed Schuey at Mercedes, but he gets no credit. Hamilton is the luckiest (smartest?) driver - he went from one top team to the next top team. He's never had to prove himself.
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      12-09-2016, 11:13 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
What an absolute joke. Rosberg outperformed Schuey at Mercedes, but he gets no credit. He's never had to prove himself.
So I guess you give no credit for Hamilton outperforming Rosberg? Lewis will go down as one of the greatest, whether his haters like it or not. The kid has 61 poles, 7 from all time leader Schuey. Second most Grand Prix wins in history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
Hamilton is the luckiest (smartest?) driver - he went from one top team to the next top team. He's never had to prove himself.
Let's not forget how the media said Hamilton was making a huge mistake leaving McLaren. Mercedes wasn't winning races when he switched. Mercedes had won just 1 race in 50, since they returned to F1 as full works team. He took a giant gamble and it paid off.
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      12-10-2016, 09:32 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Trying to figure out the best drivers to have ever lived is impossible and with over 100 years of Motorsport 3 of your top 4 of all time were all racing in 2012, not buying your list. Then Hamilton looks like the best driver right now and one of the best of all time as every race he starts he is pretty much guaranteed first or second as long as the car is running at the end and he does a decent job.

Then, when they were both running he normally beat Rosberg but hardly dominated him and would anyone put Rosberg in the top 20 of all time? If one of the top 4 best drivers of all time I would have expected more. Hamilton got pole 12 to 9 and race wins 10 to 9 when Rosberg only needed to come in 2nd for the last 4 races.

If MB is as dominant next year as they were this year Lewis will be only racing his teammate again, so you're probably right, he should dominate but not sure what it really means. He will dominate the field as long as he dominates his teammate.
I agree that it would be difficult to compile a credible list of the top 4 that included only drivers of the last 15 years. I think all can believe that he is one of the top 10 of all time and one of the top 3 statistically. I honestly think that he is one of the top 5 of the last 20 years which is basically ALO, MSC, SEN, HAM, and PRO. I would include the 4x champion VET in the top 6.

Go back and watch his early seasons. HAM has had epic races in the rain including the amazing race at Silverstone where he bet the entire field by over a minute and carries one distinction that no other driver in the history of F1 carries: He has won a race in each of the different formulae that have made up F1 since he joined the circus. No driver in the history of F1 has done so and it includes the horrible MP4-24 and MP4-25.

If HAM had won the WDC this year I'd say that he would eclipse MSCs 7 WDCs but now it is definitely in question. I think he'll pass MSC in race wins but WDCs will be a challenge.
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      12-10-2016, 09:40 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer View Post
What an absolute joke. Rosberg outperformed Schuey at Mercedes, but he gets no credit. Hamilton is the luckiest (smartest?) driver - he went from one top team to the next top team. He's never had to prove himself.
Lol.

Do you even watch F1?

Look at HAMs last season at McLaren and compare that to the 1st season at McLaren after his departure. McLaren looked like a 2nd year team and the car was never sorted out. Don't believe me, look at the statistics.

After you've done this, look at Mercedes before HAM and after his arrival. They had 1 race win before he arrived and how many now? ROS was there the whole time. I agree that engineering has quite a bit to do with it but so does driver development and performance. The car HAM drove when he arrived at Mercedes was developed by ROS and MSC. The car he won his 2nd WDC and Mercedes 1st WDC of the modern era was developed by HAM and ROS. HAM will drive the car to the ragged edge of the performance envelop which is where the extra time is found. There is no one in F1 better on the brakes than HAM. Period. End of story.

If you don't like the guy, that's one thing. Don't discount his talent and will to win. No one in F1 is stronger at this moment and that has been the case for the last 5 years.

Cheers-mk
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      12-10-2016, 09:41 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
So I guess you give no credit for Hamilton outperforming Rosberg? Lewis will go down as one of the greatest, whether his haters like it or not. The kid has 61 poles, 7 from all time leader Schuey. Second most Grand Prix wins in history.

Let's not forget how the media said Hamilton was making a huge mistake leaving McLaren. Mercedes wasn't winning races when he switched. Mercedes had won just 1 race in 50, since they returned to F1 as full works team. He took a giant gamble and it paid off.
Agreed. The harder he works the luckier he gets...go figure!!
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      12-11-2016, 04:39 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five_timer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Well a few things,

Bottas is not in the same caliber of driver as Hamilton who is one of the top four drivers to have ever lived. That list includes: Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso
.
What an absolute joke. Rosberg outperformed Schuey at Mercedes, but he gets no credit. Hamilton is the luckiest (smartest?) driver - he went from one top team to the next top team. He's never had to prove himself.
Schumi is great at building a winning car. He did so with Benetton and Ferrari. Im sure he greatly contributed to building and developing that Mercedes. If he had stayed another year he would have been winning races.
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      12-11-2016, 12:07 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2M View Post
Schumi is great at building a winning car. He did so with Benetton and Ferrari. Im sure he greatly contributed to building and developing that Mercedes. If he had stayed another year he would have been winning races.
Yeah, that is one thing I honestly never hear (maybe I'm listening wrong). I don't think it was any coincidence that after having Schumi for a couple years, all of a sudden the car turns into an absolute beast.

When you think of all that could have been (and what more importantly wouldn't have happened), if Schumi had just stayed for one more year.
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      12-11-2016, 12:32 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
all of a sudden the car turns into an absolute beast.
That was because of the regs changes - Merc's engine builders mastered the hybrid engine formula better than anyone else.
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      12-11-2016, 12:36 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
That was because of the regs changes - Merc's engine builders mastered the hybrid engine formula better than anyone else.
Exactly !
But I'm curious to see this next season with the new regulations..
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      12-11-2016, 01:04 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Yeah, that is one thing I honestly never hear (maybe I'm listening wrong). I don't think it was any coincidence that after having Schumi for a couple years, all of a sudden the car turns into an absolute beast.

When you think of all that could have been (and what more importantly wouldn't have happened), if Schumi had just stayed for one more year.
They still would have not been winning races. Schuey was too old. Sorry fans but he had lost a step by the time he came back into F1 for Mercedes. Also it's very, very telling to me that the team did not offer him a position outside of the race car. Instead they brought in possibly the greatest ever at the job, Niki Lauda. As for Nico, he's a follower not a leader; he would have gone about as fast as Schuey, just like he had been doing. It took Hamilton coming on the team to bring Nico's performance level up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
That was because of the regs changes - Merc's engine builders mastered the hybrid engine formula better than anyone else.
Yes that is quite true for the past two years. However before then, in 2013 when Red Bull was still dominant, Mercedes made a huge improvement when Lauda and Hamilton came on board. They started getting front row positions immediately and improved their finishing positions as the year went on. They even won a couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Exactly !
But I'm curious to see this next season with the new regulations..
Me too. I'm really hoping for at least two teams duking it out for wins, possibly as many as four. Hamilton seems to have a good nose for where to be, so I think Merc will still be competitive. I'm psyched about McLaren in 2018 as well. At Red Bull so much depends on Adrian Newey and he is only giving them partial attention. But they can never be counted out. Ferrari I believe is in disarray; I hope they come out hot but will not be surprised if they remain second-tier.

As for drivers, y'all are pretty much looking in the wrong direction. Instead of going back to the well with Weber and Button the teams need to get some young blood into the seats. Van Doorne shone last year in his brief appearance. Wehrlein has some rough edges but I like him long term. Among the more experienced folks I think Hulk and Chico would prove their true worth in a top tier car.
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      12-11-2016, 03:38 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by 2M View Post
Schumi is great at building a winning car. He did so with Benetton and Ferrari. Im sure he greatly contributed to building and developing that Mercedes. If he had stayed another year he would have been winning races.
Two words missing from this sentance Ross Brawn
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      12-11-2016, 04:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.t View Post
Two words missing from this sentance Ross Brawn
I missed this by 100% in my earlier post. Ross Brawn is a master organizer and assembled the structure to build a Multiple World Championship team.

I was their guest at the German GP in 2012 and met Ross, Niki, MSC, ROS, and quite a few members of the team as well as Bernd Maylander.

Their entire success today rest on the foundation Ross Brawn built. It's a shame he didn't stick around. I can almost guarantee that the shenanigans around the drivers wouldn't have occurred. ROS would have been benched after the Spa incident. Guaranteed.
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      12-11-2016, 04:42 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.t View Post
Two words missing from this sentance Ross Brawn
I missed this by 100% in my earlier post. Ross Brawn is a master organizer and assembled the structure to build a Multiple World Championship team.

I was their guest at the German GP in 2012 and met Ross, Niki, MSC, ROS, and quite a few members of the team as well as Bernd Maylander.

Their entire success today rest on the foundation Ross Brawn built. It's a shame he didn't stick around. I can almost guarantee that the shenanigans around the drivers wouldn't have occurred. ROS would have been benched after the Spa incident. Guaranteed.
Absolutely. Brawn basically took Honda and spun that team around, clinching the titles in 09'. Later he sold half the share to Mercedes, and thats when the Mercedes outfit emerged, and Mercedes pulled from McLaren eventually. Brawn was the genius as he always was with Benetton and Ferrari, but guess who was always next to him developing that car, Schumi . Except in 09, it was solely on Brawn.
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      12-12-2016, 10:37 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Do you even watch F1?
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I missed this by 100% in my earlier post. Ross Brawn is a master organizer and assembled the structure to build a Multiple World Championship team.
So first you insult me, then admit you completely missed the point, but no apology. You're a real winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
Let's not forget how the media said Hamilton was making a huge mistake leaving McLaren. Mercedes wasn't winning races when he switched. Mercedes had won just 1 race in 50, since they returned to F1 as full works team. He took a giant gamble and it paid off.
How does this differ from my statement that Hamilton is lucky/smart? Let's clarify a few things:
1 - I'm a huge Hamilton fan, not an ass-kisser.
2 - Because of his luck with teams, he has not proven himself as has (for example) Alonso.
3 - All of you Hamilton fanboys seem to universally omit any mention of Vettel, who won a race with a Torro Rosso, and then (similar to Hamilton) went to a 2nd-tier team (Red Bull) and helped make it the best. The guy wins 4 successive championships, and everyone says it's meaningless, because he just happened to be in the best car. But somehow, Hamilton is different?
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      12-12-2016, 11:54 AM   #86
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Dude, calm down. Vettel is also a great driver. Definitely up there maybe in the top 10 of the modern era. But most of us are saying that Hamilton and Alonso are a tier above.

Rosberg cannot be mentioned in that conversation.

Also, looks like I was right about Bottas. Merc are officially negotiating with Williams now.
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      12-12-2016, 12:44 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Vettel is also a great driver. Definitely up there maybe in the top 10 of the modern era.
Sure and that top 10 would include Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, Hakkinen, Mansell, Piquet....and perhaps Berger or Villeneuve. Or Kimi?

Or Nico?
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      12-12-2016, 02:00 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Dude, calm down. Vettel is also a great driver. Definitely up there maybe in the top 10 of the modern era. But most of us are saying that Hamilton and Alonso are a tier above.

Rosberg cannot be mentioned in that conversation.

Also, looks like I was right about Bottas. Merc are officially negotiating with Williams now.
Dude, I am calm. I just get a little agitated when someone asks me if I've "even watched F1" (not you).

I understand that opinions vary on Vettel. In my opinion, the way he consistently pulled away from the field at the start of each race - getting out of DRS range - showed superior driving capability. He was also great in the rain.

I was also predicting Bottas to fill the Merc seat, but I added that he could be fully competitive with HAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
Sure and that top 10 would include Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, Hakkinen, Mansell, Piquet....and perhaps Berger or Villeneuve. Or Kimi?

Or Nico?
Where's Jackie Stewart, Lauda, Fangio, Clark? There are others as well.
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