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      06-20-2017, 02:33 PM   #1145
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Obama diplomatic teams has blood on there hands
What? why?
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      06-20-2017, 03:15 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by schoy View Post
What? why?
Because he hates Obama.
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      06-20-2017, 05:10 PM   #1147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Otto Warmbier has died.
Obama diplomatic teams has blood on there hands
Um, no.

Otto Warmbier's condition (including the consequences he faced) is the fault of: 1) his actions; and 2) those supervising his detention. But mostly (1).

If one is reckless enough to go to a fascist nation and steal political propaganda, he must be prepared to face the consequences. The Obama administration did not coerce him to steal propaganda. In fact, the Obama administration was so generous as to attempt to negotiate for his release. Unfortunately, didn't work out.

Our government does not serve to function as a safety blanket that will rescue Americans when they go to other countries commit felonies. Even in such a free, autonomous, and privileged nation like the United States, if an individual of a foreign nation comes here and steals political propaganda, he will not be let off with a slap on the wrist.

The Obama administration had a moral duty to negotiate for his release. They fulfilled that moral duty.
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      06-20-2017, 05:24 PM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
Um, no.

Otto Warmbier's condition (including the consequences he faced) is the fault of: 1) his actions; and 2) those supervising his detention. But mostly (1).

If one is reckless enough to go to a fascist nation and steal political propaganda, he must be prepared to face the consequences. The Obama administration did not coerce him to steal propaganda. In fact, the Obama administration was so generous as to attempt to negotiate for his release. Unfortunately, didn't work out.

Our government does not serve to function as a safety blanket that will rescue Americans when they go to other countries commit felonies. Even in such a free, autonomous, and privileged nation like the United States, if an individual of a foreign nation comes here and steals political propaganda, he will not be let off with a slap on the wrist.
Totally agree that there's a crap ton of personal responsibility.....100% of this situation could have been prevented by exercising good judgement and NOT traveling to communist/tyrannical dictatorships

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Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
The Obama administration had a moral duty to negotiate for his release. They fulfilled that moral duty.
With that said the Obama administration's efforts were sadly exactly what I would have expected from Obama/Kerry
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      06-21-2017, 09:21 AM   #1149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoosh View Post
Um, no.

Otto Warmbier's condition (including the consequences he faced) is the fault of: 1) his actions; and 2) those supervising his detention. But mostly (1).

If one is reckless enough to go to a fascist nation and steal political propaganda, he must be prepared to face the consequences. The Obama administration did not coerce him to steal propaganda. In fact, the Obama administration was so generous as to attempt to negotiate for his release. Unfortunately, didn't work out.

Our government does not serve to function as a safety blanket that will rescue Americans when they go to other countries commit felonies. Even in such a free, autonomous, and privileged nation like the United States, if an individual of a foreign nation comes here and steals political propaganda, he will not be let off with a slap on the wrist.

The Obama administration had a moral duty to negotiate for his release. They fulfilled that moral duty.
I'm not sure about his confession, that grainy video does not show much either, in his situation they could make him say anything, but to your point about going there....absolutely. What was he thinking! We should take a more firm approach with anyone thinking about traveling there because then we need to deal with these situations. Americans should be told not to go and if you do, you are on your own (maybe we do?). It's a tough stance to take and I feel terrible for Otto, but we don't need to be dealing with this.
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      06-21-2017, 03:24 PM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Zippster View Post
I'm not sure about his confession, that grainy video does not show much either, in his situation they could make him say anything, but to your point about going there....absolutely. What was he thinking! We should take a more firm approach with anyone thinking about traveling there because then we need to deal with these situations. Americans should be told not to go and if you do, you are on your own (maybe we do?). It's a tough stance to take and I feel terrible for Otto, but we don't need to be dealing with this.
That pretty much sums up our position on American travelers to North Korea, without putting it so bluntly.

https://travel.state.gov/content/pas...l-warning.html
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      06-22-2017, 06:23 PM   #1151
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Hit. Keep on hitting these jackals.

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      06-22-2017, 06:44 PM   #1152
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Stealing the sun from Mexico? Hit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40363390
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      06-22-2017, 07:34 PM   #1153
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Stealing the sun from Mexico? Hit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40363390
So its going to be an Electric wall?
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      06-22-2017, 07:37 PM   #1154
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      06-26-2017, 09:04 AM   #1155
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Originally Posted by fbsm View Post
With that said the Obama administration's efforts were sadly exactly what I would have expected from Obama/Kerry
You mean negotiate the release of other prisoners (which they have done) but missed one guy?
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      06-26-2017, 09:06 AM   #1156
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Trump Presidency - MISS.
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      06-26-2017, 10:03 AM   #1157
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You mean negotiate the release of other prisoners (which they have done) but missed one guy?
"Missing" Kim Dong-chul probably isnt how I would put it......

The real problem is that despite the fact that NK has established a record of using hostages as a tool to force former presidents to come to NK to do various things (always embarrasing) in order to secure their release.

Furthermore it additionally secures the NK fat kids power in so much as he brags about being able to make the americans do various things in order to potentially secure the release of hostages.

The real disgrace is that at no point in time did Clinton/Kerry/Obama ban US citizens from going to NK to prevent the subsequent shit shows
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      06-26-2017, 10:20 AM   #1158
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Originally Posted by fbsm View Post
"Missing" Kim Dong-chul probably isnt how I would put it......

The real problem is that despite the fact that NK has established a record of using hostages as a tool to force former presidents to come to NK to do various things (always embarrasing) in order to secure their release.

Furthermore it additionally secures the NK fat kids power in so much as he brags about being able to make the americans do various things in order to potentially secure the release of hostages.

The real disgrace is that at no point in time did Clinton/Kerry/Obama ban US citizens from going to NK to prevent the subsequent shit shows
Most people who visit don't have an issue, because they aren't dumbasses. But as far as I know, the current administration hasn't changed that policy either.

So how is this Obama's fault again?
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      06-26-2017, 10:28 AM   #1159
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Most people who visit don't have an issue, because they aren't dumbasses. But as far as I know, the current administration hasn't changed that policy either.

So how is this Obama's fault again?
Its Obama's fault for presiding over multiple shit shows and the need to recruit multiple past dem presidents to cower to the fat kid in NK......its just one part of the utter failure of US foreign policy wrt NK over the 8 years Obama/Clinton/Kerry were running things.

Whether or not the current administration makes some effort to be more effective than the Obama admin remains to be seen......but it will be tough to be less effective than Obama/Clinton/Kerry was in doing nothing but bowing and scraping to that POS throughout his cyber attacks and nuclear program developments amongst other things
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      06-26-2017, 10:39 AM   #1160
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Anyone surprised that the moonbats in the 9th and 4th circuit appear to be getting a beat down by the supreme court?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-26-10-29-25

Quote:
Supreme Court will review Trump travel ban, allows it to take effect in most instances.
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      06-26-2017, 04:25 PM   #1161
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22 million.
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      06-28-2017, 10:14 AM   #1162
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22 million.
Miss, particularly since many of those are veterans, too.
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      06-28-2017, 10:15 AM   #1163
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Miss. Stop campaigning, start governing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-t...ton-1498079531
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      06-28-2017, 10:47 AM   #1164
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
Miss. Stop campaigning, start governing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-t...ton-1498079531
He's actually been a good boy, regarding black tie crap.
Anyway.
The healthcare hairball is bothersome, to say the least. I'm no expert, but what is the holdup?
Wild stab...MONEY.

And, to continue the hairball coughing:

'19th ObamaCare co-op folds, leaving only 4 operating in 2018.'

'Minuteman Health of Massachusetts and New Hampshire*announced*it is withdrawing from the Affordable Care Act exchanges in 2018, leaving only four co-ops in operation. The co-op will stop writing business on January 1 and organize a new company, Minuteman Insurance Company, instead.'
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      06-28-2017, 02:28 PM   #1165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbsm View Post
Its Obama's fault for presiding over multiple shit shows and the need to recruit multiple past dem presidents to cower to the fat kid in NK......its just one part of the utter failure of US foreign policy wrt NK over the 8 years Obama/Clinton/Kerry were running things.

Whether or not the current administration makes some effort to be more effective than the Obama admin remains to be seen......but it will be tough to be less effective than Obama/Clinton/Kerry was in doing nothing but bowing and scraping to that POS throughout his cyber attacks and nuclear program developments amongst other things
Banning travel of american citizens to NK would be a bad move from an international relations viewpoint, it would just raise already high tensions. The root causes are the individuals that choose to go there. If people were smart enough not to visit a country the US govt has strongly advised not to go to, there'd be no problem. It's not like NK has a tractor beam that's sucking jets onto it's airports and kidnapping people, our citizens are choosing to fly there on their own with their own money. In their mind they've weighed the risk/reward scenarios and decided the risks are worth it.
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      06-28-2017, 03:00 PM   #1166
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Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
Banning travel of american citizens to NK would be a bad move from an international relations viewpoint, it would just raise already high tensions. The root causes are the individuals that choose to go there. If people were smart enough not to visit a country the US govt has strongly advised not to go to, there'd be no problem. It's not like NK has a tractor beam that's sucking jets onto it's airports and kidnapping people, our citizens are choosing to fly there on their own with their own money. In their mind they've weighed the risk/reward scenarios and decided the risks are worth it.
I agree/disagree

If the majority of folks were to assert/emphasize the notion of personal responsibility and subsequently not ask the fed gov to intercede then I would agree

Problem is that thats not going to happen and inevitably NK will take folks hostage and they WILL be used as leverage

So in reality the only way to prevent NK from using americans as hostages is to ban travel
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