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      08-20-2019, 07:56 PM   #2267
ynguldyn
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
The Taycan is everything a Tesla is not😉
The Gallardo is everything a Z4 is not.

The Caterpillar is everything an F-150 is not.

The subway is everything a Sienna is not.
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      08-20-2019, 08:54 PM   #2268
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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/walm...en-stores.html
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      08-20-2019, 09:36 PM   #2269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
The Taycan is everything a Tesla is not😉
The Gallardo is everything a Z4 is not.

The Caterpillar is everything an F-150 is not.

The subway is everything a Sienna is not.
You're correct, I think what he meant to say was something g to the effect of, "the Taycan will be what Tesla wants its sports sedan models to be."
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      08-21-2019, 08:08 PM   #2270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
The Taycan is everything a Tesla is not��
530i is everything a BMW is not.
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      08-21-2019, 10:13 PM   #2271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Looks like Musk needs a flame suit...
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      08-21-2019, 11:27 PM   #2272
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530i is everything a BMW is not.
How sad. The 5 series should be a flagship.
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      08-22-2019, 11:16 AM   #2273
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looks like there are rumors of a merger with tsla.... people are hinting at VAG... let's see who it winds up being or if it is just more bs.
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      08-22-2019, 11:51 AM   #2274
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Not a bad idea to merge with the largest automaker in the world
Vag will have the capital and hopefully reign in elongated muskrat
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      08-22-2019, 10:19 PM   #2275
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Run 6 years if ownership (72,000 miles) between a Honda Accord Hybrid and the cheapest Model 3, and the Accord beats it by $12,000. It's no contest. The Tesla is just too expensive and still has range anxiety issues.
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      08-22-2019, 11:12 PM   #2276
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Run 6 years if ownership (72,000 miles) between a Honda Accord Hybrid and the cheapest Model 3, and the Accord beats it by $12,000. It's no contest. The Tesla is just too expensive and still has range anxiety issues.
What kind of f-ed up logic is that?
An ICE Honda would also beat a BMW, so there's no contest, nobody should want to buy a BMW?
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      08-23-2019, 01:56 PM   #2277
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What kind of f-ed up logic is that?
An ICE Honda would also beat a BMW, so there's no contest, nobody should want to buy a BMW?
What's the reason to by a Model 3? Review Tesla's website, and the consensus is to save on fuel costs. In fact, they sell the car based on the reduced price by calculating in the value of saved fuel over 5 years. So pick any EV-hybrid as a cross-shopped vehicle such as the Honda Accord Hybrid (which saves on fuel costs) and the Model 3 financially can't compete in value. That's the effing logic. It's called the automotive market place where the consumer has freedom of choice.
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      08-23-2019, 04:34 PM   #2278
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I see a lot guys buy electric for the instant torque, America's definition of sporty car has been fast off the line and whenever you step on it, it will pull, Tesla fits that description pretty well
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      08-23-2019, 11:07 PM   #2279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
What's the reason to by a Model 3? Review Tesla's website, and the consensus is to save on fuel costs. In fact, they sell the car based on the reduced price by calculating in the value of saved fuel over 5 years. So pick any EV-hybrid as a cross-shopped vehicle such as the Honda Accord Hybrid (which saves on fuel costs) and the Model 3 financially can't compete in value. That's the effing logic. It's called the automotive market place where the consumer has freedom of choice.
You can chose whatever you want.
But people buying a Tesla is not cross-shopping Honda.
The same thing applies to ICE. Do you see people eyeing a BMW comparing it with a Honda?
You make no sense.
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      08-24-2019, 08:14 AM   #2280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
You can chose whatever you want.
But people buying a Tesla is not cross-shopping Honda.
The same thing applies to ICE. Do you see people eyeing a BMW comparing it with a Honda?
You make no sense.
I make complete sense. People certainly cross shop the Tesla Model 3 with other EVs and partial EV (i.e. hybrids). The Model 3 is touted as Tesla's breakthrough EV for the masses, since it is priced in the $40K range; remember it was first supposed to sell at $35,500 WITHOUT the Federal Government subsidy, but that never materialized. $35K is the price where an EV starts to compete economically with an ICE vehicle.

You must have some idea that the Model 3 is a "near luxury" entry-level luxury model (i.e. like a BMW 3-series) from a luxury manufacturer (i.e. BMW, Mercedes, etc.) because of its $40K MSRP. The Model 3 is nowhere near a near-lux vehicle from a luxury vehicle manufacturer. It's an expensive economy car because it is expensive to design and manufacture. The people who need to own a car that has a low monthly fuel cost can't afford the Model 3 MSRP and most likely don't economically qualify to collect on the (original) $7,500 tax rebate.

One of Elon Musk's stated goals with Tesla is to flip the driving public to convert to EV, and he plays the save-the-planet card doing so. Well, if Musk wants to flip the world's, or let's say just the US market, personal transportation system to EV he has to sell an EV at a price that makes economical sense and compete in total ownership cost with ICE. The Honda Accord is one of the most popular selling cars in the US market and has an average transaction price around $30K. I'm simply stating the Model 3 is not achieving Musk's goal because it can't compete in total ownership cost with other mainstream non-EV vehicles. Not to mention competing in refueling convenience and range capability.

When the Model 3 was announced with much fan-fare, the US Press excitedly touted that the EV save-the-planet change was coming as evidenced by the over 400,000 pre-production slot orders. Now in reality world land... I can drive over to the Tesla store in Tyson's Corner, Virginia, and drive out in a $40,470 Model 3 with no wait. Last I checked the Model 3 has sold 222,500 cars, so by my simple math the Model 3 has not achieved anywhere near the stated goals made for it.

Regarding cross-shopping BMW and Honda, I'll go on record that they do. Most people cross-shop cars on price; you may not understand this, but auto executives do. Ever wonder why Mercedes and BMW have recently gone down market by introducing front-drive sedans in the low $30K price range? Perhaps they are chasing higher volume sales? Where is Honda's sweet spot in volume sales, yup a $30K front-drive sedan. What was the Lexus and Infinity, and later Acura business model some 30 years ago? To offer a German-class luxury sedan and 1/2 to 3/4 the price. What is Hyundai's business model with Genesis... yup the same. And let's not get into the CUV market discussion...
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-24-2019 at 08:47 AM..
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      08-25-2019, 12:31 PM   #2281
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I have several friends who have bought cars in the past 6 months or are actively shopping. Of those looking for small/mid sedan, their shopping lists most certainly include Model 3 in the same category as Accord, Camry, etc.

Personally, I shopped Model S alongside BMW 5er, MB E class, and Audi 6/7 (and Lexus ES, briefly). The S had of course fantastic acceleration and crazy tech, but it was absolutely not a luxury vehicle in terms of comfort, refinement, or build quality. I'd actually say that from a comfort, functionality, and long-term quality standpoint, a well optioned Toyota Avalon is a better car overall than a Model S, and likely for half the price cheaper.
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      08-25-2019, 01:52 PM   #2282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooselee View Post
I have several friends who have bought cars in the past 6 months or are actively shopping. Of those looking for small/mid sedan, their shopping lists most certainly include Model 3 in the same category as Accord, Camry, etc.

Personally, I shopped Model S alongside BMW 5er, MB E class, and Audi 6/7 (and Lexus ES, briefly). The S had of course fantastic acceleration and crazy tech, but it was absolutely not a luxury vehicle in terms of comfort, refinement, or build quality. I'd actually say that from a comfort, functionality, and long-term quality standpoint, a well optioned Toyota Avalon is a better car overall than a Model S, and likely for half the price cheaper.
The Model S is incredibly uncomfortable in the back seat.
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      08-25-2019, 01:53 PM   #2283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
The Model S is incredibly uncomfortable in the back seat.
Not as bad as the CHR, Corolla hatchback, and the Juke
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      08-25-2019, 02:07 PM   #2284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
The Model S is incredibly uncomfortable in the back seat.
Not as bad as the CHR, Corolla hatchback, and the Juke
I was making a comparison to other midsize
sedans in the segment. I have never sat in those cars you mention so can't draw a direct comparo.
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      08-25-2019, 02:14 PM   #2285
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      08-25-2019, 02:29 PM   #2286
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I'm always suspicious of numbers with (est) next to them. 10,000 exactly? 12,550? All the other numbers look precise if not accurate.
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      08-25-2019, 02:34 PM   #2287
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I see plenty cross shop Tesla model 3 vs 3 series... I personally would have given Model 3P a hard look had I have more access to charging
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      08-25-2019, 03:10 PM   #2288
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Isn't like half those cars twice the price of the tesla?
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