[OkieSnuffBox]

What does "tight vertical packaging" have to do with a flat-plane crank?

Is this person confusing "flat plane" with "boxer layout" or something?

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

What does "tight vertical packaging" have to do with a flat-plane crank?

Is this person confusing "flat plane" with "boxer layout" or something?

Its sort of grasping at straws, logic is that since there is no space for a supercharger in the convertible engine bay, the z06 most likely is fitted with the FPC engine derived from the C8r rather than a supercharged lt4 or developing a new engine. Theory does make sense to me though, probably took millions of dollars to develop a bespoke FPC; why not use it?

[Obioban]

If the Z06 has turbos, I want the base car (grand sport).

If the Z06 is a high revving NA flat plane crank V8, I want the Z06.

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by WestRace

The C8.R has a much more aggressive sound compared to the more wimpy sounding Ford GT.

You think the Ford GT GTLM car has a whimpy sounding exhaust, or the street version ford gt?

I ask because when I was at Laguna Seca for IMSA, the Ford GT was louder than the damn C7R's lol, I couldn't believe it

[WestRace]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

You think the Ford GT GTLM car has a whimpy sounding exhaust, or the street version ford gt?

I ask because when I was at Laguna Seca for IMSA, the Ford GT was louder than the damn C7R's lol, I couldn't believe it

Relatively speaking. It couldn't hold a candle to the one in the C8.R vid I posted.

[3798j]

This from R&T's Facebook page:
Asked about how the switch to a flat-plane-crank, overhead-cam engine would impact the C8.R's exhaust note, Corvette chief engineer Ed Piatek said, "I think we're still gonna have a signature Corvette sound, and you'll know it coming over the hill before you see it, it just might not be the same sound we had in the past. I think it sounds like nothing else I've ever heard."

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by 3798j

This from R&T's Facebook page:
Asked about how the switch to a flat-plane-crank, overhead-cam engine would impact the C8.R's exhaust note, Corvette chief engineer Ed Piatek said, "I think we're still gonna have a signature Corvette sound, and you'll know it coming over the hill before you see it, it just might not be the same sound we had in the past. I think it sounds like nothing else I've ever heard."

Think P65. Flat plane with unequal length headers. It roars but its not the same...

[3798j]

Originally Posted by b4hand

Think P65. Flat plane with unequal length headers. It roars but its not the same...

From Car and Driver:
"There's maybe a yardstick's worth of unrestricted tailpipe hanging off the exhaust manifolds. We'll buy into Chevrolet's claim that new engine will have a distinct Corvette sound."

[JamesNoBrakes]

We are living in the best of times right now. Despite all the gloom and doom, a freaking mid-engine corvette race car.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

Here’s a real quick clip of the C8R starting and revving a little bit. This new engine sure loves to rev and sounds ferocious doing it. Guy starting the car is Tommy Milner one of the racing drivers of team Corvette, Tommy has won the 24hr of Le Mans twice( C6R and C7R). Tommy and C8R will likely be added to that list.
https://www.motor1.com/news/375287/c...-engine-sound/

LOL....did you see the older guy in the pinkish shirt walking by when he fired it up? He jumped about 2ft back.

[scoobysaurus]

Originally Posted by WestRace

The youtube clip of the C8.R sounds very close to the typical European FPC V8. It has the high picth whaling that is not like the C7.R deep rumbling sound.

More like the Ferrari 458 GTE race car

The C8.R has a slightly deeper tone vs. the 458 more high pitche and almost like the 488. Maybe because both the 488 and C8.R are turbo.

Out of all three, I like the 458 the best.

Some say it might be a V6 TT but it does not sound like the Ford GT. The C8.R has a much more aggressive sound compared to the more wimpy sounding Ford GT.

Wimpy? Go hear an FGT in person. Videos don't do justice to the base notes. Either way I'm glad the C8Z might be getting a racier FPC engine. Might just have to pick one up in convertible form.

[WestRace]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

Wimpy? Go hear an FGT in person. Videos don't do justice to the base notes. Either way I'm glad the C8Z might be getting a racier FPC engine. Might just have to pick one up in convertible form.

I did. Still wimpy compared to the C8.R. It's not the absolute loudness that counts. If that's the case, then we all be buying tractors lols.

[WestRace]

Deleted due to what appeared to be false data.

[See5]

Originally Posted by WestRace

MotroTrend test data leaked.

That’s from GM and came out over a month ago.

[WestRace]

Originally Posted by See5

That’s from GM and came out over a month ago.

OK, I removed the data.

[TXSTYLE]

One f****** Word.... WOW!!!


EXCLUSIVE: 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray First Test: The C8 Keeps Its Promises!
MotorTrend delivers the exclusive First Test on the first-ever mid-engine Corvette

This far, no farther. Chevrolet's Corvette engineering team has been clear: They had taken the front-engine, rear-drive sports car platform as far as possible. The only way forward was to move the engine backward. After pulling the pin and blowing up 65 years of history and heritage, the mid-engine C8 Corvette made its debut to incredible promises.

And after decades reporting rumors and false starts, we can finally confirm: Chevrolet keeps its promises.

You'll forgive any skepticism. Chevrolet told us moving the engine back a few feet, adding 35 horsepower (give or take), and employing a dual-clutch transmission would make the 495-hp C8 Corvette Z51 quicker to 60 mph than the 755-hp C7 Corvette ZR1, despite the C8's considerably worse power-to-weight ratio. Plus, they said, it would come within a tenth of a g or two on the skidpad while wearing all-season tires. Oh, and it'll do all that for half the price, give or take.

That's quite a target to aim for. With launch control engaged and 61 percent of the weight on the rear tires, the C8 Corvette Z51 shot to 60 mph in a staggering 2.8 seconds on the way to an 11.1-second quarter mile at 123.2 mph.


Let's geek out on these numbers for a hot minute. The best the C7 could ever manage is 3.0 seconds to 60. That 2019 C7 ZR1 weighed only a few dozen pounds more than this 3,622-pound C8 Z51 but had to launch just 4.8 pounds per horsepower to the new car's 7.3. The best a C7 Z51 could ever do was 3.7 seconds to 60, with the same power-to-weight as the new car thanks to a slimmer curb weight. Even the C7 Grand Sport, with its stickier tires and Z06 suspension, only managed a 3.6. The quickest factory Corvette ever is the new base model with a sport package.

As you'd expect, much of the advantage is in the launch, but you'd be surprised just how much. The quickest C7 ZR1 ran a 10.8-second quarter mile at 133.1 mph, just 0.3 second quicker. So great was the C8 Z51's launch advantage that the C7 ZR1 barely got ahead of it by the quarter by running 10 mph faster.

And what of the other big number? Breaking 1.00 average lateral g on the skidpad is an accomplishment, but it's easier when you have summer tires rather than all-seasons, and the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S included in the Z51 package is very much a summer tire. With it, the C8 Z51 pulled 1.04 average lateral g on the skidpad—which is actually less than a C7 Z51, which pulled as much as 1.11 average lateral g on the Pilot Super Sports that preceded the Pilot 4S.

How did that happen? With grinding, infuriating understeer, as testing director Kim Reynolds was bemused to discover. This is the C8's default move at its limits, even as a mid-engine car with the Z51 package. Why do this? Because of what happens if you turn off the excellent stability control and Performance Traction Management computer.

Put simply, the C8 is no drift car. Try to correct the understeer with a nudge of throttle, and you get more understeer. Give it a lot of throttle sans ESC, and you'll likely end up backward. Be extremely patient and roll into the throttle correctly, and the C8 will dig in and push hard off the exit of a corner. Give it too much gas, though, and the rear end is happy to step out. The line between a nice power-on drift and a spin is razor thin.

Which explains the understeer. Moving the engine (and thus the weight balance) to the center decreases the polar moment of inertia, making a vehicle more prone to spinning. Understeer makes it harder for the vehicle to get sideways and reduces the chance of a spin. The Corvette team is more than capable of tuning the car for a more balanced demeanor, which makes us think this was intentional.

The vast majority of C8s sold will be base Stingrays. More than likely, those who buy them will have never driven a mid-engine car or one that hits 60 in less time than it takes to start the engine. Severe understeer will help prevent the overeager owners from pulling a Mustang exit at their local cars and coffee. Given all that, we also expect future performance models, from Grand Sport to Z06 to ZR1 and anything else, to dial back the understeer in pursuit of performance.

There's more to the story, though. Although the C8 struggles for grip midcorner, it dwarfs the C7's ability to put down power coming off the corner; the ultra-quick transmission and extra power conspire to reduce the time between corners. Witness the C8 Z51's 23.3-second figure-eight lap at 0.90 average g, 0.4 second ahead of any C7 Z51 and 0.2 behind a C7 Z06 with steel brakes.

Brakes are the one area where the C8 does not have a decided advantage over the C7. At 97 feet, the C8 Z51's best stopping distance from 60 mph falls on the longer end of the C7 Stingray and Z51's scale, costing it precious time in short figure-eight laps. The brakes were also a source of contention among the staff. In everyday and even sporty driving, they get the job done fine. It's when pushed to the limit that they fall short.

The car stops fine, but the brake-by-wire pedal feel isn't reassuring. ABS activation happens before the pedal reaches the end of its travel, and once you're there, it's difficult to modulate. You have to learn to listen and feel for other signs that you're approaching the limit because cars stop considerably better under threshold braking than with ABS software cycling through them.

This applies doubly if the braking zone isn't perfectly smooth, as even a slight loss of grip at either front wheel sends the C8's ABS into conniptions. Chevrolet says the pedal travel and resistance characteristics change depending on the driving mode, but we couldn't feel the difference. No mode seemed any better than the others in limit braking.

Although isolating brakes may be a shortcoming, the C8's isolating ride on long cruises is a highlight. The magnetic dampers, set to Tour mode, ride like a luxury sport sedan. Impacts from expansion joints, crumbling pavement, and railroad crossings are heard far more than they're felt. Even big impacts struggle to rattle the cabin. Twisting the drive mode knob up through Sport and Track settings stiffens the ride and increases the amount of vertical motion for occupants, but even at its most inflexible the ride is never punishing.

It's just one element of an unusually coddling interior for a Corvette. No longer can we chide Chevrolet for cheap materials, mediocre build quality, and unsupportive seats. Our 3LT trim tester was loaded up to nearly $90,000, and you could see and feel where every penny went (except maybe the cupholders). The GT2 seats offered excellent support under hard driving and equal comfort the rest of the time. The leather is the best quality we've seen in a Corvette, and the cabin is quiet enough to whisper across at 80 mph. The steering wheel places your hands in awkward positions during cornering, but we appreciate the clear view of the instrument cluster it affords.

The other side of the coin is a disconnectedness from the raw performance of the car. The engine is rather quiet for a Corvette (though it retains that distinctive small-block roar), and the transmission is so smooth in Tour mode that you don't get a sense of just how fast you're going, at least until you brake.

Similarly, it neither looks nor feels like a sub-3-second 0-60 sprint, but the numbers don't lie. There's never a big shove of torque; the engine's delivery is always exactly the same. You just gain speed, as simple as that. The dual-clutch transmission is exceptional for a first try, a game effort to match Porsche's benchmark PDK. The steering is precise and accurate but could stand to give you more road feel.

For decades, we made excuses for the Corvette's foibles, arguing its performance per dollar trumped all else. The C7 changed that, showing us Chevy could afford to make the Corvette nice, too, in addition to fast. Still, it wasn't as nice as the cars it was beating on the stopwatch.

No more. The C8 is not only powerful, but, dare we say, it's also the most premium-feeling Corvette that Chevrolet has ever made. It's the quickest Corvette to ever roll off the assembly line and up to a stoplight, and it somehow still starts at $60,000. And this is just the beginning.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...3D8D2A3C64DDCC

[alex2364]

Very quick straight line speed, but it sounds like they dialed in the suspension for severe understeer at the limit. I was hoping it was more neutral.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

One f****** Word.... WOW!!!


EXCLUSIVE: 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray First Test: The C8 Keeps Its Promises!
MotorTrend delivers the exclusive First Test on the first-ever mid-engine Corvette




https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...3D8D2A3C64DDCC

Well...

Consider me dissuaded. Hopefully future iterations are better. Shitty steering feel, shitty brake feel, understeer till it spins, and 3622 lbs... and not manual.

That said, the C7 was dynamically kind of disaster when it launched, and they turned that ship around. So... here's hoping.

[joshuastein55]

Looks like Jason Cammisa wasn't too impressed. I see his points about grip, steering, and understeer addressed in other reviews as well. He makes a good point though, this is just the first stepping stone of even more mid-engine corvette variants coming.


https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...st-drive-test/

[alex2364]

High expectations are a bitch. Whether you're anticipating Adele's next album, Ron Howard's next movie, or Christian Yelich's next at-bat, it's only human to feel a little deflated if it doesn't turn out just the way you'd dreamed it would. And, so, the deflation potential is high with the new mid-engined 2020 Chevrolet Corvette.

From the moment that rumors surfaced that the engine in the next C8-generation Corvette might move behind the seats, the presumption that the car would be a breakthrough, a revelation, and a revolution has followed it like a moon shadow. Now it's here. And it does look more like a Ferrari than a Corvette, with the same cabin-forward proportions as every hyperfast, megadollar exotic on the market. And we've driven it extensively. So, has Chevrolet built a supercar for the masses—an American Ferrari—or simply a better Corvette? The answer is yes—but with an asterisk. It's complicated.

We did our judging by spending a week in a C8 equipped with the $5000 track-capable Z51 Performance package and optional FE4 magnetorheological dampers (an additional $1895), the hottest version available at launch. We drove it on the road. We track-tested it to scrutinize its performance capabilities. And we timed laps at Grattan Raceway outside of Grand Rapids, Michigan, in both the C8 and a similarly equipped C7-gen Z51 Vette to see whether the mid-engine model's claimed handling advantage over its front-engine predecessor is real.

After all that poking and prodding, we have concluded that the new C8 is spectacular, amazing, and supremely capable. Maybe even revolutionary. And we've also come to the realization that, despite its long list of compelling attributes, it's still not quite everything we had hoped it would be. Like we said, it's complicated.

Whatever the world's expectations for the C8, Chevy had its own. Yes, the company wanted to appeal to younger buyers who once tacked posters of Lamborghini Countachs to their bedroom walls. But the Corvette, once again called the Stingray, was designed to occupy the same place in the market as before. Some 50 percent of Corvette buyers purchase the entry-level model, which is why a base C8 goes for just $59,995—hundreds of thousands less than the McLarens, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis it resembles. Nor did the Corvette team want to shock its loyal owners with a car so alien that they couldn't abide it. "First we designed a mid-engine car," a Corvette team insider told us. "Then we had to turn it into a Corvette." That's the framework within which to judge the new C8.

Untangling our feelings about the C8 Stingray starts with examining its performance, which definitely lives up to expectations. With 60.6 percent of its mass over the rear tires—the C7 Stingray had a roughly 50/50 front-to-rear weight distribution—the C8 is ferocious off the line. Note that our heavily optioned test car weighed 3647 pounds, 195 more than a 2019 C7 Z51 we tested. With the dual-mode performance exhaust that's included in the Z51 package, the 6.2-liter LT2 V-8 in the C8's tail makes 495 horsepower (base cars without that exhaust make 490). That's up 35 ponies from the C7 Z51's engine, which keeps the pounds-per-horsepower ratios of the two cars virtually equal.

Aided by its quick-shifting eight-speed dual-clutch automatic—the only transmission available—and a well-calibrated launch-control system, the C8 rips off zero-to-60-mph runs in 2.8 seconds. That's 1.1 seconds quicker than the last C7 Z51 we tested with a manual transmission. The C8 even betters the zero-to-60-mph runs of the quickest 650-hp C7 Z06 and 755-hp C7 ZR1 that we've strapped our test gear to, both of which lose the struggle with grip in low gears. Yes, they are traveling faster than the new Vette by the end of the quarter-mile, which the C8 does in 11.2 seconds at 122 mph, but the point is made: The mid-engine configuration pays off from a standing start.

The C8 stopped from 70 mph in 149 feet and hung on to the skidpad at 1.03 g with quite a bit more understeer than we were expecting, considering our experiences on the road. Neither of those chassis metrics are improvements over the C7, which stopped in 139 feet and circled the skidpad at 1.06 g. Blame the C8's weight gain. However, the full extent of the latest Corvette's handling superiority would play out during hot lapping at the racetrack.

While the C8's performance places it within the bounds of the supercar class, character matters as much as capability. It's here where your expectations will affect how you feel about the C8. Make no mistake, if you want to haul ass down a writhing piece of asphalt, this car will do it at astounding velocities, with a viselike grip on the pavement and the haughty assuredness of a car born to the task. There are six driving modes, and the FE4 damper package also includes the Performance Traction Management system for fine-tuning the car's stability control for track use. Switch into any of the more aggressive settings with the awkward-to-use dial on the center console, punch the push-button shifter into manual mode, and hang on. The faster you go, the better the C8 feels. The steering cuts like a race car's, and the cornering limits are virtually out of reach on the street—though steering feel and feedback aren't as communicative as those from a Porsche 911 or a McLaren 720S. Boiling out of corners on full throttle, the big V-8 thunders like a NASCAR engine, and the dual-clutch automatic delivers crisp shifts when you pull the paddles on the back of the steering wheel.

Most of the time, you won't be blazing twisty roads like a four-wheeled flamethrower; you'll be wanting a car that's a little more Zen. Bimodal, everyday usability has long been a Corvette trait, and the C8 continues that tradition. In Tour mode, it transmogrifies into a laid-back daily driver, with a ride smoother than many sports sedan's, steering lighter than a Malibu's, and an engine note that's barely a murmur. The transmission eases through its eight gears unnoticed, though it can be a bit lazy to downshift if you stab the throttle. Extensive acoustic insulation has made the C8 not only quieter by three decibels at 70 mph than the C7, but just plain quiet. This kind of dynamic bandwidth is almost unheard of in the mid-engine exotic realm.

There are three seat options in the C8: GT1, GT2 (included in the 3LT trim), and the more aggressive Competition Sport buckets. The GT2 chairs in our test car were soft in the right places yet wonderfully supportive for amped-up cornering. This is a car you can drive anytime, anywhere—including clear across the country—without it tiring you out. Plus, it has useful space in the front and rear cargo holds. So, go ahead, take it to the supermarket.
But normal driving also is where the C8 gets tripped up by elevated expectations. More than a few of us were hoping for more character, more drama, and more personality when we weren't hammering it. Ferraris and Lamborghinis snarl at you like caged tigers even when you're just moseying through downtown. The steering of Porsches and McLarens is more vivid than the Corvette's at low speeds. We sometimes wished the new Stingray felt a little louder and brasher, a bit more like the C7. Can a car that looks this angry actually be too refined? That's where the asterisk comes in.

We have few reservations about the new Stingray's interior, though. Our car, a well-equipped example with the $11,950 3LT package, boasted supple, tautly sewn leather on most of its interior surfaces, plus extras such as the $1500 carbon-fiber trim. You sit farther forward compared with the seating position in the C7, though the view over the deep instrument panel isn't as panoramic as it is in some other mid-engine cars. The wall-like cabin divider that houses the climate controls looks obtrusive but isn't. The odd squared-off steering wheel is, surprisingly, as easy to use as a circular one, and it provides a clear view of the programmable digital gauge cluster. The steering-column stalks are a bit of a reach, and the glare on the rear glass sometimes hides what's behind you. The electronic rearview mirror camera that's standard on 2LT and 3LT trims solves this problem, though; it provides an unobstructed view of anything behind you. Overall, this is by far the best Corvette interior ever.

The C8 also is the most impressive Corvette ever. Deleting all the fancy gear on our test car—it had all manner of extras that didn't make it drive better, including a $1495 front-end lift mechanism to clear steep driveways and $995 worth of carbon-fiber engine-compartment garnish—wouldn't change how we feel about it. But it would drop the price considerably. For a base car with the Z51 package and FE4 dampers, you're looking at only $66,890. This is nothing less than the democratization of the exotic car.

And consider this: The C8 Stingray is but the opening salvo in Chevy's supercar revolution. It's a known secret that several hotter C8s will soon follow, powered by high-revving, DOHC 32-valve flat-plane-crank V-8s starting at 600-plus horsepower and ranging up to a hybrid with nearly 1000 ponies. Those versions likely will deliver all the snarl anyone could want.

That's the future. This is now, and it's clear that the new C8 isn't just a better Corvette, but a supercar for the rest of us—imperfections be damned. You'll just have to readjust your expectations to suit.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

[alex2364]

Engineering theory states that, all other things being equal, a mid-engine car's superior weight distribution should enable it to lap a racetrack quicker than a front-engine car. To find out if Chevrolet had turned theory into reality, we pitted the mid-engine C8 against the front-engine C7 at Michigan's Grattan Raceway.

It was an ideal test case: Both cars were equipped with track-capable Z51 packages, adaptive dampers, and eight-speed automatics—a dual-clutch unit in the C8. Both had additional wheel camber dialed in as recommended in their owner's manuals for track use. Both wore Corvette-developed Michelin summer tires, though the C8 had the latest Pilot Sport 4S rubber, whereas the C7 wore the older Pilot Super Sports. We turned off stability control so that we could detect even the most minute chassis differences, and we turned on the RaceLogic VBox LapTimer.

After about a dozen rounds battling Grattan’s 2.2 miles of heaving, mean-spirited pavement in each car, engineering theory won: The C8 turned a best lap of 1:26.1, the C7 a 1:27.0. A roughly one-second difference might not sound like much, but consider that after just a half-dozen laps, the C8 would cross the finish line as the C7 pulls onto Grattan’s straight. The data revealed that the C8 braked later into several corners and accelerated harder out of others—though the C7 managed to narrow the gap in a couple spots. Through the 100-mph sweeper feeding the main straight, the C8 was about 3 mph faster. It hit 142 mph before braking into Turn 1 to the C7’s 140, and then braked with 1.16 g’s to the C7’s 1.00. It registered a maximum of 1.32 g’s in the banked Turn 8 hairpin versus the C7’s 1.30 g’s.

But such close lap times don’t remotely convey how much easier it is to go fast in the C8. It cuts more cleanly into turns, and its rear tires are more planted exiting them; the C7’s tail is nervous and twitchy by comparison. Indeed, the C8 feels as approachable on the track as it does on the road. That’s a rare combination, one worthy of respect. The C8 has ours.

https://www.caranddriver.com/preview...kX2F0IjoiIn0=/

Almost 1 second faster than the C7 at Michigan's Grattan Raceway.

[Obioban]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...st-drive-test/

Ugh. Hopefully future iterations makes it drive well.