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      10-15-2019, 12:10 PM   #1013
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Suspension tuning and handling can be improved by other things may have been set in stone. Steering, brake, DCT a bit slow, 39/61 weigh distribution, uncommunicative chassis, fiber glass panels are a few things that are still a Corvette. Like previous Vette, it's fast but the little things that let it down. But that may not be a surprise since for $60K starting, you can't ask for everything. Those who have money will ultimately gravitate toward the 911 S.
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      10-15-2019, 12:24 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
Suspension tuning and handling can be improved by other things may have been set in stone. Steering, brake, DCT a bit slow, 39/61 weigh distribution, uncommunicative chassis, fiber glass panels are a few things that are still a Corvette. Like previous Vette, it's fast but the little things that let it down. But that may not be a surprise since for $60K starting, you can't ask for everything. Those who have money will ultimately gravitate toward the 911 S.
Guess it's possible that some will cross shop those two, but it's a bit of a sports car vs GT comparison. Sort of like cross shopping a GTR and a Bentley Continental.
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      10-15-2019, 12:53 PM   #1015
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My goodness the deals on C7s now. Saw a 2018 Z06 with 16k miles with a manual for $58k, clear title.

That one huge Vette dealer is doing brand new 19 Grandsports now for like $60k too.
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      10-15-2019, 01:43 PM   #1016
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Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
https://www.caranddriver.com/preview...kX2F0IjoiIn0=/

Almost 1 second faster than the C7 at Michigan's Grattan Raceway.
On tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs Pilot Super Sport) that should be about 1.5 seconds faster. This is a damning report IMO.
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      10-15-2019, 01:45 PM   #1017
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
My goodness the deals on C7s now. Saw a 2018 Z06 with 16k miles with a manual for $58k, clear title.

That one huge Vette dealer is doing brand new 19 Grandsports now for like $60k too.
Those C7s are looking more and more like real bargains. Especially given the fact that you can still get them with a manual.
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      10-15-2019, 01:54 PM   #1018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
https://www.caranddriver.com/preview...kX2F0IjoiIn0=/

Almost 1 second faster than the C7 at Michigan's Grattan Raceway.
Was that a C7 Grand Sport or just a C7 with the Z51 option?
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      10-15-2019, 01:58 PM   #1019
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Those C7s are looking more and more like real bargains. Especially given the fact that you can still get them with a manual.
Yep, and not to mention they're amazing machines!
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      10-15-2019, 02:06 PM   #1020
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
On tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs Pilot Super Sport) that should be about 1.5 seconds faster. This is a damning report IMO.
1.5 seconds faster based on what, your opinion? Is it also damning that it's faster than a C7 ZR1 in the quarter mile?
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      10-15-2019, 02:08 PM   #1021
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I gotta say... all modern cars are fast enough that i don’t care at all how fast it accelerates.
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      10-15-2019, 02:12 PM   #1022
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1.5 seconds faster based on what, your opinion? Is it also damning that it's faster than a C7 ZR1 in the quarter mile?
1.5 seconds faster based on the fact that TireRack tested it on their 30 seconds per lap autocross course, and the Pilot Sport 4S is about 0.5 seconds per lap faster than the Pilot Super Sport?

There are multiple reports from credible sources that say the PS4S is a good, significant step forward in dry and wet grip compared to the PSS.

Look it up and do your own research. I'm not going to bother. And if straight-line and quarter mile is what Corvettes are all about, then frankly, I've bought the wrong car.
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      10-15-2019, 02:38 PM   #1023
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The reviews sound pretty positive.

All the numbers look up to par as well, especially that supposedly impossible 0-60 time it wasn’t supposed to hit.

It’ll make the track numbers as well. The longer the track, the more difference you’ll see vs the C7 Z51(which is still a pretty quick car in its own right). Complaining about tires sounds like sour grapes.

Bottom line, its the best Corvette ever as expected.
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      10-15-2019, 02:41 PM   #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
The reviews sound pretty positive.

All the numbers look up to par as well, especially that supposedly impossible 0-60 time it wasn’t supposed to hit.

It’ll make the track numbers as well. The longer the track, the more difference you’ll see vs the C7 Z51(which is still a pretty quick car in its own right).
The reviews took me from planning to buy one to no interest.

Here's hoping they fix the understeer, steering feel, limit behavior, and brake feel (and, ideally, weight) in the higher spec versions.
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      10-15-2019, 02:41 PM   #1025
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About the 39/61 weight distribution, maybe the DCT is one big heavy lump of iron.

The reviews so far seem a bit uninspiring. Hopefully some of the British magazines from across the pond will chime in soon. I trust the UK magazines more than American ones.
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      10-15-2019, 02:44 PM   #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The reviews took me from planning to buy one to no interest.

Here's hoping they fix the understeer, steering feel, limit behavior, and brake feel (and, ideally, weight) in the higher spec versions.
Given his track record of shock reviews, I’d probably drive one before listening to Jason Cammisa’s opinions on it. Lol

But yeah, I can understand reservations.
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      10-15-2019, 02:46 PM   #1027
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Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
About the 39/61 weight distribution, maybe the DCT is one heavy lump of iron.

The reviews so far seem a bit uninspiring. Hopefully some of the British magazines from across the pond will chime in soon. I trust the UK magazines more than American ones.
This still isn't a weakness. 50/50 is marketing fluff and sort of an ideal for a front engine car, but not the ideal balance.

Check the Motor Trend article, it listed a weight for the DCT.
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      10-15-2019, 02:48 PM   #1028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
Given his track record of shock reviews, I’d probably drive one before listening to Jason Cammisa’s opinions on it. Lol

But yeah, I can understand reservations.
Jason Cammisa's opinion of cars is the only one I consistently agree with. Often I feel like other reviewers opinions are so far off that they're driving different cars that me.

I don't think he's chasing shock reviews-- just giving his honest opinion instead of kowtowing to the car companies with the hope of being invited to future events.

... but, in this case, the MotorTrend and C&D reviews said very similar things if you read between the lines. Everyone said it understeers till it spins, has shitty steering feel, and has shitty brake feel. I don't care about acceleration-- I care about feedback and limit behavior. So far... the C8 isn't delivering on that front, according to all reviews.
(I also care about a responsive engine, and it does seem to be delivering on that front, unlike... every non hybrid turbo car made)
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      10-15-2019, 02:49 PM   #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
About the 39/61 weight distribution, maybe the DCT is one heavy lump of iron.
The Ferrari 488 is at 41/59. The 720S at 42/58. 992 at 39/61.

Pretty small difference.
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      10-15-2019, 02:51 PM   #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Jason Cammisa's opinion of cars is the only one I consistently agree with. Often I feel like other reviewers opinions are so far off that they're driving different cars that me.

I don't think he's chasing shock reviews-- just giving his honest opinion instead of kowtowing to the car companies with the hope of being invited to future events.

... but, in this case, the MotorTrend and C&D reviews said very similar things if you read between the lines. Everyone said it understeers till it spins, has shitty steering feel, and has shitty brake feel. I don't care about acceleration-- I care about feedback and limit behavior. So far... the C8 isn't delivering on that front, according to all reviews.
(I also care about a responsive engine, and it does seem to be delivering on that front, unlike... every non hybrid turbo car made)
Well, we’ll agree to disagree. I often don’t agree with his opinions when driving the cars he’s driven.

As for the C8, if you were expecting knife edge, GT3-style feedback, yeah this is the wrong boat. Lol
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      10-15-2019, 02:51 PM   #1031
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Originally Posted by See5 View Post
It’ll make the track numbers as well. The longer the track, the more difference you’ll see vs the C7 Z51(which is still a pretty quick car in its own right). Complaining about tires sounds like sour grapes.
That is probably true. Grattan looks to be VERY twisty in most sections. The difference will likely be bigger at tracks like Laguna Seca (huge grip and power advantage) or Willow Springs (long straight, long LONG straights, and high speed sweepers). There's no doubt there will be tracks where the C8 advantage in having more mass on the drive wheels will shine.

I'm not complaining about the tires. I'm pointing out the obvious. That the 0.9 second difference for this track can easily be explained by the fact that the C8 comes with superior tires. Just like the GT2 RS times at the Nurburgring was established with Cup 2Rs or the Civic Si times at the Ring was on Cup 2 tires, or a slew of other track comparisons. You can't get PS4S from the factory on the C7, and that is as valid as any point about any comparison.

I've got no beef in this, besides the fact that I currently own a C7 Grand Sport. I'm about as objective as anyone you'll find on the intarweb, and slightly more knowledgeable than your average poster. That's all. The only thing I have an irrational love for is the BMW MZ4 Coupe.

But if I were to tell it like it is, I'm surprised that there's only a 0.9 second lap time difference, despite all the advantages moving to mid engine should have (better traction out of the corner, better/wider tires, etc). Not saying it should blow the C7 away with several second's worth of difference, and if it did, it would be REALLY impressive...But if GM's rationale for moving to a mid-engine platform was that the front engine Corvettes are no longer competitive on the circuit, based on these numbers...this move to mid engine seems to primarily benefit the straight-line performance, not the twisty stuff as we're all promised.

At this point there's nothing in the C8 that will make me want to eat 1.5 years of depreciation though, besides it's the newest and shiniest object in the automotive industry.
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      10-15-2019, 02:57 PM   #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
That is probably true. Grattan looks to be VERY twisty in most sections. The difference will likely be bigger at tracks like Laguna Seca (huge grip and power advantage) or Willow Springs (long straight, long LONG straights, and high speed sweepers). There's no doubt there will be tracks where the C8 advantage in having more mass on the drive wheels will shine.

I'm not complaining about the tires. I'm pointing out the obvious. That the 0.9 second difference for this track can easily be explained by the fact that the C8 comes with superior tires. Just like the GT2 RS times at the Nurburgring was established with Cup 2Rs or the Civic Si times at the Ring was on Cup 2 tires, or a slew of other track comparisons. You can't get PS4S from the factory on the C7, and that is as valid as any point about any comparison.

I've got no beef in this, besides the fact that I currently own a C7 Grand Sport. I'm about as objective as anyone you'll find on the intarweb, and slightly more knowledgeable than your average poster. That's all. The only thing I have an irrational love for is the BMW MZ4 Coupe.

But if I were to tell it like it is, I'm surprised that there's only a 0.9 second lap time difference, despite all the advantages moving to mid engine should have (better traction out of the corner, better/wider tires, etc). Not saying it should blow the C7 away with several second's worth of difference, and if it did, it would be REALLY impressive...But if GM's rationale for moving to a mid-engine platform was that the front engine Corvettes are no longer competitive on the circuit, based on these numbers...this move to mid engine seems to primarily benefit the straight-line performance, not the twisty stuff as we're all promised.

At this point there's nothing in the C8 that will make me want to eat 1.5 years of depreciation though, besides it's the newest and shiniest object in the automotive industry.
I don’t think that was the promise at all. The main promise was that moving to midengine would allow the Corvette to finally put big power down, provide better sightlines, and provide a different feel. Tadge himself mentioned that the car was going to have “Lexus-like” refinement qualities.

The C7 was and is a monster on entry and mid corner handling. Its weakness was putting the power down, which seems to have been solved.
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      10-15-2019, 03:02 PM   #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The reviews took me from planning to buy one to no interest.

Here's hoping they fix the understeer, steering feel, limit behavior, and brake feel (and, ideally, weight) in the higher spec versions.
Given his track record of shock reviews, I’d probably drive one before listening to Jason Cammisa’s opinions on it. Lol

But yeah, I can understand reservations.
Honestly I trust Jason Cammisa for reviews, especially his mini-reviews on his instagram. He offers a no-bs point of view that I appreciate, he will flat out say whether a car is good or bad in his opinion. Of course this creates controversy and upset those who value a car he may criticize, but I still find his writing to be better than some mags while also reflecting my own opinions I have of cars after driving them.
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      10-15-2019, 03:05 PM   #1034
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Quote:
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Well, we’ll agree to disagree. I often don’t agree with his opinions when driving the cars he’s driven.

As for the C8, if you were expecting knife edge, GT3-style feedback, yeah this is the wrong boat. Lol
I guess I was hoping GM would put the same chassis dynamics team to work that made the Camaro or recent Cadillac V's great limit performers.

Perhaps they still will. But, the reviews we've seen so far are what I would have expected for the non Z51 base car, with the Z51 being praised for its feedback and limit behavior.
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