[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

lets get some better lease programing!

I know some dealers who are having record months.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Do these numbers tell us that older buyers and buyers with families are opting for the SAV's?

BMW re-directed a lot of their SAVs to the US market from China. The US market is doing what it can to support it.

BMW has drastically slowed production on the 3-series.

[spiceyxi]

It will be interesting to see if Jag is able to pose a threat and steal some German business. If I was looking for a SUV I would be paying close attention to the F-Pace and the new XE is pretty tempting to give a try. Plus, with Jag they have what looks to be a very good warranty and service offer (5yr/60k). I doubt they can easily move the volume to be a big impact right now, but it seems that they are planning on expanding factories and opening up some additional lines.

Once I get closer to purchase time I will definitely give Jag a try. They have the looks, but do they have the feel and experience? Outside of the M2 nothing new (or CPO) at BMW has me really curious.

[jkoral]

Some interesting 3-series numbers in here (if you can ignore the Tesla fawning):

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3998...ined-one-chart

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

The entire market is reeling. Not just BMW.

Ding, recession ahead.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Ding, recession ahead.

My thoughts, exactly!

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

My thoughts, exactly!

Record debt

Over 220 trillion in unfunded liabilities from medicare/medicaid/social security and other entitlements

Increasing trade deficit
lowest workforce participation rate in 40 year
the fed continuing to print money

What else could possibly happen EXCEPT for a downturn in the economy?

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by autopal

The 3 series (which I think is BMW'S best product) is down by a whopping 42% That's shocking. The 3 series, particularly the 340 and its inline 6, have the best powertrain and engines in the segment, it's just a shame BMW refuses to change the outdated looking interior, which is why BMW fans like me, is now driving Mercedes C450 AMG.

I personally think BMW has a better interior product than Audi. I also think that even if the interior were a factor, that is not the reason for the sales issue. The reason is that the typical 3 series drives like a Camry but it priced north of $50K. There is nothing special about driving most BMWs today - they have dulled all of the sharpness out of them because that's what they assumed we wanted (Lexus was kicking their butt 4 years ago and so they must be what everyone wanted - right?). Today, Audi is the car to beat - they drive better and in spite of their terrible lease deals, they keep selling more each month. Even MB which has not been doing too well with the reviews (and has that new gawd awful afterthought of a screen stuck to the dashboard) is doing well - because they are unique and drive as such too. Short of an incredible lease, the reasons to pick up a BMW are dwindling. Maybe the new 5-series will put them back in the right direction?

Originally Posted by jpnh

I guess that begs the question from someone not well versed in leases

When you lease a car who retains ownership?

Is it the dealer or BMW?

The leasing company is the owner of the car. That could be(and often is) BMW Financial or some other leasing company.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Record debt

Over 220 trillion in unfunded liabilities from medicare/medicaid/social security and other entitlements

Increasing trade deficit
lowest workforce participation rate in 40 year
the fed continuing to print money

What else could possibly happen EXCEPT for a downturn in the economy?

Don't get me started!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by PawnStar

2 series is down almost 30%

Pretty sad that they sell more i3 than 2 series ...


Oh wait.. I3 is a sedan with four doors.

Silly BMW. Making a 2 series without a sedan

[Zirenz2006]

They need to get the updated/new models out, a lot of the lineup is long in the tooth.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Not true for Audi and Mercedes.

Audi second best sales month in history, up 2.5%. Brand’s 68th straight monthly sales record in the U.S.

Mercedes just reported all-time best August sales (28,404 units). Year-to-date Mercedes brand up 0.7%.

There not exactly major increases. An increase all the same but not the percentage the manufacturer is looking for.
The US market is showing a downturn in general but the X models reign supreme as expected they would.

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by InsideMan

I know some dealers who are having record months.

nice! always love to hear that!

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

Don't get me started!

Yeah. Unless there's a write in winner this election is not going to be good for business.

[CookMaster]

Let's see, we're not in a recession. 1.2% GDP growth not counting inflation from gas and food. Tractor trailer rig purchases all on hold or cancelled. Ports waiting for a surge in business based upon traditional models of storing the next big Christmas item in warehouses, but not seeing any indication of increased traffic. Truck manufacturers showing declines across the board. Canada, one of our big trading partners, showing a negative growth economy (they're not printing money). Europe charging their customers for keeping their savings at their respective banks. Obamacare going down the tube rapidly. Does anybody really believe we're not in a recession? If so, please visit your nearest pot dispensary for your necessary dose to avoid reality.

[Bimmer4LifeF32]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

^
BMW leases are already cheap compared to Mercedes and Audi.

Benz and Audi are keeping their lease residuals high across their entire line-up of both 2016 and 2017 models by a significant margin. Run the comparisons on 2017 models across all three brands. To the average consumer, brand loyalty doesn't matter if they can pay $100-150 less per month. So yes, GOLFFRR is correct, BMW is not as competitive as they could be and it is showing in their monthly performance.

[dkhm3]

Relax, don't listen to some(one) on this forum cheering the demise of the bmw brand.

the entire industry is flat, barely growing, or declining. lexus is doing no better. audi has a much lower volume. take these sales in perspective

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

Don't get me started!

I suspect you're a;ready started and in drive......I'm just releasing the parking brake

[dkhm3]

Here's an article on the actual margins of the luxury brands-

bmw has lower lease rates while retaining one of the highest margins of the market, which tells you that the cars not being subsidized any more or less compared to any other large volume luxury brand carmakers such as lexus and benz. The cars are retaining value in the secondary markets which allow the brand to keep their low lease rates.

consider also that the brand increased profits and earnings 2nd quarter 2016 vs last year when the brand sold less cars should also tell you something.

Margins (2nd quarter 2016)

BMW 9.5%
MERC 10%
AUDI 8.7%


http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwint.../#3b8f35e31fec

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Here's an article on the actual margins of the luxury brands-

bmw has lower lease rates while retaining one of the highest margins of the market, which tells you that the cars not being subsidized any more or less compared to any other large volume luxury brand carmakers such as lexus and benz. The cars are retaining value in the secondary markets which allow the brand to keep their low lease rates.

consider also that the brand increased profits and earnings 2nd quarter 2016 vs last year while the brand has lower sales should also tell you something.

Margins (2nd quarter 2016)

BMW 9.5%
MERC 10%
AUDI 8.7%



http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwint.../#3b8f35e31fec

Most of what I have read and learned from folks I know that work in the industry points to dealers needing to make between 12-15% margin on every car just to keep the doors open and the lights on

This means that the "margin" between "Invoice" and MSRP is not the only mechanism by which the dealership makes money.....there are a number of ways this happens....number of vehicles sold in a period of time results in additional revenue for the dealership and salesman when they make their weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual numbers

Its all just a shell game....and look at some of the deals that people get periodically.....there was someone recently that got over 2k off invoice on a 2017 M240

The money is there to bargain with.....if you get them at the right time and they need more sales to make a goal (and make more money of the overall number of cars sold vs your one car)

[David70]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Most of what I have read and learned from folks I know that work in the industry points to dealers needing to make between 12-15% margin on every car just to keep the doors open and the lights on

This means that the "margin" between "Invoice" and MSRP is not the only mechanism by which the dealership makes money.....there are a number of ways this happens....number of vehicles sold in a period of time results in additional revenue for the dealership and salesman when they make their weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual numbers

Its all just a shell game....and look at some of the deals that people get periodically.....there was someone recently that got over 2k off invoice on a 2017 M240

The money is there to bargain with.....if you get them at the right time and they need more sales to make a goal (and make more money of the overall number of cars sold vs your one car)

The margin BMW the corporation makes and the margin the independently owned dealer makes are different.

Also, if my company I also would care a lot more about profit than number of vehicles sold. So what if the volume is really high but we aren't making any money.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by David70

The margin BMW the corporation makes and the margin the independently owned dealer makes are different.

Also, if my company I also would care a lot more about profit than number of vehicles sold. So what if the volume is really high but we aren't making any money.

well said.