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      08-29-2019, 02:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
Seems like the original poster got the student loan forgiveness policy incorrect.
* Cancellation of student loan debt for every single American up to $50K.
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      08-29-2019, 02:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
Seems like the original poster got the student loan forgiveness policy incorrect.
Do you support the proposals that Warren is suggesting? Any of them? All of them?

If yes, why? If not, why? Join in on the conversation and debate. Don't be a little pansy and hide behind one-liner semantics.
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      08-29-2019, 03:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
* Cancellation of student loan debt for every single American up to $50K.
dependent upon income

Ms. Warren’s agenda includes a plan to cancel up to $50,000 in student loan debt, depending on a borrower’s income, (excerpted from the article below)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/u...-platform.html

Warren might be a freak, I don't know, but the republican finance and consumer laws are freaking bullshit.
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      08-29-2019, 03:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
dependent upon income

Ms. Warren’s agenda includes a plan to cancel up to $50,000 in student loan debt, depending on a borrower’s income, (excerpted from the article below)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/u...-platform.html

Warren might be a freak, I don't know, but the republican finance and consumer laws are freaking bullshit.
I can't read that - it's behind a paywall.

Regardless, according to Warren's own website, she will forgive student loan debt to those making less than $250,000 per year. Her website says this will encompass 98% of all Americans with student debt. Personally, I think it's more than that, since I doubt anyone making a quarter million a year has loan debt other than physicians or dentists.

Irrespective of that, 98% is as close as makes no difference to "all", which is essentially just a rounding error in my original statement.

--

So, back to my original question - do you support this plan? What about her other plans? Any that you do or do not support?

Why?
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      08-29-2019, 03:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
* Cancellation of student loan debt for every single American up to $50K.
It took me over 15 years to pay off my student loans of $100k, so this has a 100% chance of passing lol.

I get to pay for free schooling and retirements for everyone! YAY!
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      08-29-2019, 03:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
It took me over 15 years to pay off my student loans of $100k, so this has a 100% chance of passing lol.

I get to pay for free schooling and retirements for everyone! YAY!

There was the for profit colleges using hard sales techniques on servicemen the poor the young, that these for profit colleges had gov loan insurance- that is the impetus for the democratic center/left initiative on loan forgiveness.
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      08-29-2019, 03:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I can't read that - it's behind a paywall.

Regardless, according to Warren's own website, she will forgive student loan debt to those making less than $250,000 per year. Her website says this will encompass 98% of all Americans with student debt. Personally, I think it's more than that, since I doubt anyone making a quarter million a year has loan debt other than physicians or dentists.

Irrespective of that, 98% is as close as makes no difference to "all", which is essentially just a rounding error in my original statement.

--

So, back to my original question - do you support this plan? What about her other plans? Any that you do or do not support?

Why?
In principle I like the idea of reversing the policy influencers to the masses - being those with sub 2 or 3 million dollar of total assets and less.
And in my heart I think big tech companies may need to be split and banks should be separated into consumer and investment.

I also, if I were king, take back the promises of parts of the pensions that many government employees have.

I’m for gun licensing and ammunition (make their own ammo) licensing and regulation.

And I’m sympathetic to environmental protection.

I think I’d vote for Warren. Biden is scaring me.

Last edited by ScottSinger; 08-29-2019 at 04:46 PM..
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      08-29-2019, 03:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
* Cancellation of student loan debt for every single American up to $50K.
Since the fed backs the loans I guess this is doable. I'm ambivalent; I see it as a vote getting gambit. People freely signed up for those loans, for better or worse.

My granddaughters are heading to college now and despite them, their parents, and us all saving up funds since they were babies, they're facing significant shortfalls between what they got and what they need. But I don't think the fix is to go into debt and pray that the gummint will bail them out; I think the fix is to bring "higher education" costs back to earth.

The free college thing is interesting. Every kid in California used to have access to free college. Here in PA the state schools were pretty darned cheap for residents. NYC had free college too. What happened was that the cost of college went crazy and therefore those bennies got cut.

I'm good with continuing to walk away from coal as a power source. Not to the point of criminalizing it, that's stupid.

Moving gun laws to the federal level is a non starter and she knows it. All that gun stuff is pandering to the base. I have to say though that 6 rounds seems sufficient for most of the reasons people come up with for carrying personal firearms. It's fun to crack off 20 or 30 rounds at a range but how necessary is it really out there in the world.
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      08-30-2019, 02:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I have to say though that 6 rounds seems sufficient for most of the reasons people come up with for carrying personal firearms. It's fun to crack off 20 or 30 rounds at a range but how necessary is it really out there in the world.
Six rounds doesn't seem sufficient to me. Even the current ten rounds max NJ limits us to isn't sufficient... and the police obviously agree. That's why they're exempt from this limitation.
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      08-30-2019, 06:33 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Six rounds doesn't seem sufficient to me. Even the current ten rounds max NJ limits us to isn't sufficient... and the police obviously agree. That's why they're exempt from this limitation.
Same here, carried a 15 round mag (+1) at work and only allowed 10 round mag here. Thank god I can do really quick mag changes though.
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      08-30-2019, 06:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
I've got student loans that I have to pay & I have younger siblings one whose going through college, & another whose in high school at the moment & they will also be at the same place where I am today paying back their tuitions & working 80 hours a week just to make ends meet & paying back the loans.
So if she can really do that it would be a great thing for people like us.
Why the fuck should I have to pay for your loans, or your siblings loans. Get your shit together. You made that decision, if your job doesn’t make you enough money to pay back your loans, then get a different job.
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      08-30-2019, 07:22 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
I've got student loans that I have to pay & I have younger siblings one whose going through college, & another whose in high school at the moment & they will also be at the same place where I am today paying back their tuitions & working 80 hours a week just to make ends meet & paying back the loans.
So if she can really do that it would be a great thing for people like us.
I keep hearing all of this "free education", "free healthcare" etc. None of its free. It comes at a cost, and that cost is higher taxes, which means higher prices on everything. I have no issue with paying taxes to support education, healthcare, infrastructure, public safety and the military. But it has to be done within reason.

There is no free lunch.
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      08-30-2019, 07:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
I've got student loans that I have to pay & I have younger siblings one whose going through college, & another whose in high school at the moment & they will also be at the same place where I am today paying back their tuitions & working 80 hours a week just to make ends meet & paying back the loans.
So if she can really do that it would be a great thing for people like us.
So I can get this straight - because I was responsible and worked 50hrs a week through undergrad and busted my ass so I could get a scholarship for grad school and you didn't and borrowed money because you chose poorly - I should have my money forcibly taken from me and given to you?

I got two words for that...screw you.


I'll light it on fire before I give it to someone that didn't earn it.
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      08-30-2019, 07:47 AM   #36
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I am so tired of my generation’s (millennial) approach to problems like this.

“Oh hey yeah I have this problem and to address it it would be uncomfortable for me so uhh you guys can have it LUL amiright”

Ok great, so you got rid of your student loan debt, now your taxes are going to be skyrocketed until the day you die and your offspring will have degrees worth exactly nothing since shocker, everyone will have one. The amount you were paying on your loans will pale in comparison to having the majority of your income pulled away to fund healthcare, college, and transgender surgery for illegal immigrants and squirrels and whoever else.

Also:

Get off my lawn
Music was better in my day

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      08-30-2019, 07:50 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
It took me over 15 years to pay off my student loans of $100k, so this has a 100% chance of passing lol.

I get to pay for free schooling and retirements for everyone! YAY!
As a related tangent - when I graduated high school in '93, the local community college was charging $60/credit for tuition, Michigan State University was, as I recollect, about $120-125/credit.

Since we recently moved back to East Lansing, my wife was considering "auditing" a couple of classes at MSU. Their current tuition rate is between $482/credit and $555/credit hour.
http://www.ctlr.msu.edu/COStudentAcc...rgraduate.aspx



Is there some other industry where the cost has increased 400+% in the last 25 years? I can't think of anything or service that I currently use or buy that has, honestly.

Last edited by hooligan_COLD; 08-30-2019 at 07:59 AM..
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      08-30-2019, 07:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Six rounds doesn't seem sufficient to me. Even the current ten rounds max NJ limits us to isn't sufficient... and the police obviously agree. That's why they're exempt from this limitation.
As far as handguns go, I only own 1911s, so 8+1 for me.

I'm not worried.
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      08-30-2019, 07:59 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
As a related tangent - when I graduated high school in '93, the local community college was charging $60/credit for tuition, Michigan State University was, as I recollect, about $120-125/credit.

Since we recently moved back to East Lansing, my wife was considering "auditing" a couple of classes at MSU. Their current tuition rate is something like $495/credit hour.

Is there some other industry where the cost has increased 400% in the last 25 years? I can't think of anything or service that I currently use or buy that has, honestly.
And why do you think it suddenly skyrocketed like that?

Couldn't have anything to do with the federal government coming in and underwriting student loans where no matter what the university charges, the student can get a loan for, could it?

Naw, couldn't be that.

Wouldn't happen to be anything like the mortgage crisis from a few years ago, where home prices skyrocketed because nearly anyone could get a home loan, since so many were being federally subsidized by fanny mae and freddy mac? Naw - it's certainly not the exact same thing. What was I thinking?

Couldn't be that anytime the federal government gets involved and artificially inflates demand for something that the supply side has runaway inflation? Couldn't be the exact economic theory that Hayek, Friedman, and Tocqueville have described countless times?

Naw - couldn't be anything like what I mentioned. I'm sure it's only because of greedy university presidents and that if the federal government gets involved, they will make it all better. Yeah, that will certainly work.

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      08-30-2019, 08:09 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Six rounds doesn't seem sufficient to me. Even the current ten rounds max NJ limits us to isn't sufficient... and the police obviously agree. That's why they're exempt from this limitation.
As far as handguns go, I only own 1911s, so 8+1 for me.

I'm not worried.
Who said this infringement only applies to handguns?
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      08-30-2019, 08:11 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
And why do you think it suddenly skyrocketed like that?

Couldn't have anything to do with the federal government coming in and underwriting student loans where no matter what the university charges, the student can get a loan for, could it?

Naw, couldn't be that.

Wouldn't happen to be anything like the mortgage crisis from a few years ago, where home prices skyrocketed because nearly anyone could get a home loan, since so many were being federally subsidized by fanny mae and freddy mac? Naw - it's certainly not the exact same thing. What was I thinking?

Couldn't be that anytime the federal government gets involved and artificially inflates demand for something that the supply side has runaway inflation? Couldn't be the exact economic theory that Hayek, Friedman, and Tocqueville have described countless times?

Naw - couldn't be anything like what I mentioned. I'm sure it's only because of greedy university presidents and that if the federal government gets involved, they will make it all better. Yeah, that will certainly work.


Where did I make any claims at all about the "why"? Neither did I advocate for yet more .gov intervention into the system.

If you don't feel like addressing what I actually said, you probably shouldn't quote my post. And if you're going to condescend to me like I'm a child, at least make it about things I've actually said or advocated for.

I don't really care about the why, at this point - that train has left the station. I care about recognizing the problem and fixing it.

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      08-30-2019, 08:14 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Who said this infringement only applies to handguns?
No one. I chose to focus on handguns in my post.

You want to talk about rifles? Knock yourself out - no one's stopping you.

Fuck me. Both you and Helena wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what?

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      08-30-2019, 08:20 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Where did I make any claims at all about the "why"? Neither did I advocate for yet more .gov intervention into the system.

If you don't feel like addressing what I actually said, you probably shouldn't quote my post. And if you're going to condescend to me like I'm a child, at least make it about things I've actually said or advocated for.

I don't really care about the why, at this point - that train has left the station. I care about recognizing the problem and fixing it.


Relax, dude - tone is sometimes a struggle to grasp via internet text. I was being tongue in cheek - I wasn't trying to be condescending to you - I like and respect you.

Read my post again as if I was smiling while saying it and see if that helps. I don't think you are against anything that I am saying.

I was simply speaking to the masses with respect to your post - that the way to solve it could be many - but government intervention is MOST CERTAINLY NOT the way - and nearly never is.

The easiest solution would be to make getting student loans just as difficult as any other uncollateralized loan. That would reduce demand substantially, which in tern would solve two issues. (1) It would force colleges to lower prices to keep up enrollment figures and (2) less people would go to college and that would increase the worth of the degrees in general.
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      08-30-2019, 08:28 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Relax, dude - tone is sometimes a struggle to grasp via internet text. I was being tongue in cheek - I wasn't trying to be condescending to you - I like and respect you.

Read my post again as if I was smiling while saying it and see if that helps. I don't think you are against anything that I am saying.

I was simply speaking to the masses with respect to your post - that the way to solve it could be many - but government intervention is MOST CERTAINLY NOT the way - and nearly never is.

The easiest solution would be to make getting student loans just as difficult as any other uncollateralized loan. That would reduce demand substantially, which in tern would solve two issues. (1) It would force colleges to lower prices to keep up enrollment figures and (2) less people would go to college and that would increase the worth of the degrees in general.
I'm glad to hear it was unintentional, but the repeated "Naw, couldn't be" came across as extremely condescending, FYI.

FWIW, I agree that government meddling is not the way to "fix" the college tuition issues.

The point I was trying to make is that college is apparently very unique when it comes to inflationary pricing of its goods/services within our marketplace over the recent past.
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