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      08-27-2019, 06:05 PM   #1
NormanConquest
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9th Circuit and it many stupid rulings

Let me start with this gem
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...rules-n1046501

Reasoning cruel and unusual despite the doctors saying it not necessary. Wouldn't it be cruel to make him a bigger target for prision rape or will they jail him with the female population and make it cruel for all the women who will be sexually assaulted by someone in jail for sexually assaulting a 15 year old girl?

Luckily Idaho Governor is doing a Jackson and pretty much saying you made you decision now try to enforce it.
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      08-27-2019, 06:12 PM   #2
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My word that is stupid. What it boils down to is that Edmo was very very unhappy with being the gender she was born with, then starting hurting herself. So the state considers that the only solution is to give her a gender reassignment surgery (or whatever the kids are calling it these days). That is NOT a medical need. She's not bleeding, not dying from some disease, she's just angry.

I have VERY VERY VERY severe lowbankaccount disphoria. I DEMAND THAT THE STATE FIX THAT ASAP! Otherwise they are denying me basic human rights. Or do i have to go to the pen first? How does this work Norman?
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      08-27-2019, 06:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
My word that is stupid. What it boils down to is that Edmo was very very unhappy with being the gender she was born with, then starting hurting herself. So the state considers that the only solution is to give her a gender reassignment surgery (or whatever the kids are calling it these days). That is NOT a medical need. She's not bleeding, not dying from some disease, she's just angry.

I have VERY VERY VERY severe lowbankaccount disphoria. I DEMAND THAT THE STATE FIX THAT ASAP! Otherwise they are denying me basic human rights. Or do i have to go to the pen first? How does this work Norman?
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      08-27-2019, 06:23 PM   #4
NormanConquest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
My word that is stupid. What it boils down to is that Edmo was very very unhappy with being the gender she was born with, then starting hurting herself. So the state considers that the only solution is to give her a gender reassignment surgery (or whatever the kids are calling it these days). That is NOT a medical need. She's not bleeding, not dying from some disease, she's just angry.

I have VERY VERY VERY severe lowbankaccount disphoria. I DEMAND THAT THE STATE FIX THAT ASAP! Otherwise they are denying me basic human rights. Or do i have to go to the pen first? How does this work Norman?
You know what I identity with that as well, I also have a fear of taxes, the government must stop stressing me out with all these taxes everywhere.
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      08-29-2019, 01:35 PM   #5
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Haha, freak assholes. That includes the judges.
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      08-29-2019, 02:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
You know what I identity with that as well, I also have a fear of taxes, the government must stop stressing me out with all these taxes everywhere.
I refuse to pay bills on the grounds that they encourage slavery. In order to pay a bill I have to get a job and do shit I dont want to do for 8hrs a day. Jobs oppress us.
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      08-29-2019, 02:55 PM   #7
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This is nothing, Canada has been doing it for a while. What's better (from the "what could possibly go wrong" file) is if a male inmate "identifies as female" they get sent to a women's prison, where shockingly they engage in sex with female inmates, get into relationships and then domestic disputes. It is a complete shit show from what my friends in Federal Corrections tell me.
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      08-29-2019, 05:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
This is nothing, Canada has been doing it for a while. What's better (from the "what could possibly go wrong" file) is if a male inmate "identifies as female" they get sent to a women's prison, where shockingly they engage in sex with female inmates, get into relationships and then domestic disputes. It is a complete shit show from what my friends in Federal Corrections tell me.
just saying
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      08-29-2019, 07:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
just saying
I'm not sure why you want pictures of Trans inmates but here are two of them in Canadian women's prisons.........enjoy

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...fies-as-female

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...licy-1.4512510

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ns-prison.html

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...4-54db962e1727
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Last edited by Grumpy Old Man; 08-29-2019 at 07:47 PM..
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      08-29-2019, 07:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Here's another one for you.....
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      08-29-2019, 07:51 PM   #11
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^ Looks like an episode of The Trailer Park Boys.
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      08-29-2019, 07:54 PM   #12
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Going to cool picture thread to wash my eyes
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      08-29-2019, 08:24 PM   #13
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It should be a rule that before anyone comments on a court decision they read it. The only way to understand the law is to read the decisions that make up the law. People who read one news article and think they're qualified to call the a court "stupid" are the stupid ones.

First, understand that appellate courts are generally not free to interfere in findings of fact by a lower court unless they are "clearly erroneous". It's pretty clear, from reading the decision that the state did not argue that the lower court's findings of facts were "clearly erroneous" :
The State did not dispute that Edmo’s gender dysphoria was a sufficiently serious medical need to trigger the State’s obligations under the Eighth Amendment.
Therefore, if the findings of fact are not interfered with, as a legal question, how is the decision wrong? it was argued on narrow legal grounds and reads pretty coherently.

I did not read the lower court decision, I am not suggesting it was correct or that there is or should be an obligation to treat gender dysphoria within the prison system as a general rule. I did, however, read the 9th Court decision and it was only open to the appellate court to accept or reject the arguments made by the State. Those arguments were all narrow, technical, procedural ... not to merits. Seems to be a well reasoned decision rejecting the appeal.

Don't worry, I won't engage in any replies from anyone who didn't bother to read the f*ing decision: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...3/19-35017.pdf
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      08-29-2019, 08:33 PM   #14
NormanConquest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
It should be a rule that before anyone comments on a court decision they read it. The only way to understand the law is to read the decisions that make up the law. People who read one news article and think they're qualified to call the a court "stupid" are the stupid ones.

First, understand that appellate courts are generally not free to interfere in findings of fact by a lower court unless they are "clearly erroneous". It's pretty clear, from reading the decision that the state did not argue that the lower court's findings of facts were "clearly erroneous" :
The State did not dispute that Edmo’s gender dysphoria was a sufficiently serious medical need to trigger the State’s obligations under the Eighth Amendment.
Therefore, if the findings of fact are not interfered with, as a legal question, how is the decision wrong? it was argued on narrow legal grounds and reads pretty coherently.

I did not read the lower court decision, I am not suggesting it was correct or that there is or should be an obligation to treat gender dysphoria within the prison system as a general rule. I did, however, read the 9th Court decision and it was only open to the appellate court to accept or reject the arguments made by the State. Those arguments were all narrow, technical, procedural ... not to merits. Seems to be a well reasoned decision rejecting the appeal.

Don't worry, I won't engage in any replies from anyone who didn't bother to read the f*ing decision: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...3/19-35017.pdf
You canadian, so your most likely unaware that the 9th circuit is consistently overruled for passing stupid decisions.
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      08-29-2019, 08:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
You canadian, so your most likely unaware that the 9th circuit is consistently overruled for passing stupid decisions.
Actually, I am well aware of the perceived reputation of the 9th Circuit. If you want to make that point, use cases where they have been overturned with criticism, Instead, you quote a news article to call them stupid when, on a neutral read, there is nothing wrong with the decision.

You didn't read the decision and don't know whether they were right or wrong, smart or stupid. You found a news article that fit your world view and used to post a new topic that made you thump your chest with pride ... good for you. Now read the f*ing case.

Oh. and by the way. the 9th is overturned less than the 6th (Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Tennessee) and 11th (Alabama, Florida, Georgia) and virtually tied with the 3rd (Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania) ... and the number of cases actually overturned is less than 1% (2015 - 8 overturned cases out of 12000 filed).

Last edited by JohnnyCanuck; 08-29-2019 at 08:59 PM..
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      08-29-2019, 09:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Actually, I am well aware of the perceived reputation of the 9th Circuit. If you want to make that point, use cases where they have been overturned with criticism, Instead, you quote a news article to call them stupid when, on a neutral read, there is nothing wrong with the decision.

You didn't read the decision and don't know whether they were right or wrong, smart or stupid. You found a news article that fit your world view and used to post a new topic that made you thump your chest with pride ... good for you. Now read the f*ing case.

Oh. and by the way. the 9th is overturned less than the 6th (Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Tennessee) and 11th (Alabama, Florida, Georgia) and virtually tied with the 3rd (Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania) ... and the number of cases actually overturned is less than 1% (2015 - 8 overturned cases out of 12000 filed).
Source
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      08-29-2019, 09:49 PM   #17
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You do know that last paragraph is not really relevant to my point. I put it there to emphasize that your impressions aren't facts. However, here's a source for you:

https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ourt-country-/

Now, go and read the decision ... or are you avoiding it for a reason?
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      08-29-2019, 10:01 PM   #18
NormanConquest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
You do know that last paragraph is not really relevant to my point. I put it there to emphasize that your impressions aren't facts. However, here's a source for you:

https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ourt-country-/

Now, go and read the decision ... or are you avoiding it for a reason?
Fyi the case in question was over turn after that article was posted as predicted.

The doctor in the case stated it was not a medically nessary so why would the state need to make an arguement?
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      08-30-2019, 07:03 AM   #19
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Fyi the case in question was over turn after that article was posted as predicted.

The doctor in the case stated it was not a medically nessary so why would the state need to make an arguement?
I was wondering what the outcome was going to be and suspected that they would be overturned.
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      08-30-2019, 07:05 AM   #20
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I was wondering what the outcome was going to be and suspected that they would be overturned.
I was refering to the travel ban

The suspect one will take awhile as the courts are slow in usa but the governor already said he won't allow a dime of tax payer money go to plastic surgery. Pretty much what Jackson told the SCOTUS "you made your decision now try to enforce it"

I'm confident the case will be overturn since the doctor in the case clearly said it not a necessity.
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      08-30-2019, 07:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I was refering to the travel ban

The suspect one will take awhile as the courts are slow in usa but the governor already said he won't allow a dime of tax payer money go to plastic surgery. Pretty much what Jackson told the SCOTUS "you made your decision now try to enforce it"

I'm confident the case will be overturn since the doctor in the case clearly said it not a necessity.
Canada is paying for and providing gender reassignment surgery and hormone therapy for inmates. And I think I read some place that California is doing it as well. Outstanding.
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      08-30-2019, 07:18 AM   #22
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Canada is paying for and providing gender reassignment surgery and hormone therapy for inmates. And I think I read some place that California is doing it as well. Outstanding.
Yes Canada is a mess, you need to elect someone to make Canada Great Again and especially figure out how to deal with all the chineese hot money that inflating your real estate market causing a bubble.
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