[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Be that as it may, I won't buy a Z4 without a manual. Fortunately, it looks like I'll be able to.

Patience is a virtue and hopefully the announcement will be made in the very near future!

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I drove manual transmissions for 60 years, starting with a 1947 Plymouth. I disagree about the engagement and fun. After exposure to the PDK and the Ford 10 speed, I felt stupid doing something the car could do better without my help. That's when I realized it was time to sell my 335i.

Which manuals did you drive? Here’s my list- 94 Nissan maxima (learned on this one), 93 corvette, 95 993 911, 98 corvette, 01 e39 m5, 02 330 conv, 04 e46 m3, 18 f80 m3 comp. On the corvettes and the 911 in particular the manual was faster and better. On the 01-04 bmw’s I also believe the manual also was superior. Once the DCT came out on my e93 it was eye opening now good a transmission could be - that one felt like an automated manual (which it is). I enjoyed that transmisson, and it’s sad they EOL for the M3. I understand why they did it, but I found the ZF8 boring in my G80.

Anyway, I felt the way you feel when we had the 18 m3 and compared it to our tesla model 3 performance. It was a dinosaur unless you nailed the launch and even then the power delivery was a struggle with traction once turbos kicked in. However I believe BMW and M division have sorted out the problem. But I have also grown bored pulling the paddles. Yes, PDK and ZF8 and even our AMGs were intuitive and faster than any manual could possibly be. But there’s something fun about rowing through gears, putting man/woman and machine more closely interacting, and I find it more challenging as well to my mind and senses.

Originally Posted by StanDiego

There will always be those for whom nostalgia sings sweeter than truth. We all taste a bit of it. Let those enjoy their song.

Well said.

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Which manuals did you drive? Here’s my list- 94 Nissan maxima (learned on this one), 93 corvette, 95 993 911, 98 corvette, 01 e39 m5, 02 330 conv, 04 e46 m3, 18 f80 m3 comp. On the corvettes and the 911 in particular the manual was faster and better. On the 01-04 bmw’s I also believe the manual also was superior. Once the DCT came out on my e93 it was eye opening now good a transmission could be - that one felt like an automated manual (which it is). I enjoyed that transmisson, and it’s sad they EOL for the M3. I understand why they did it, but I found the ZF8 boring in my G80.

Anyway, I felt the way you feel when we had the 18 m3 and compared it to our tesla model 3 performance. It was a dinosaur unless you nailed the launch and even then the power delivery was a struggle with traction once turbos kicked in. However I believe BMW and M division have sorted out the problem. But I have also grown bored pulling the paddles. Yes, PDK and ZF8 and even our AMGs were intuitive and faster than any manual could possibly be. But there’s something fun about rowing through gears, putting man/woman and machine more closely interacting, and I find it more challenging as well to my mind and senses.



Well said.

My list? Wow, I don't think I can remember them all. My uncle ran a used car lot and the SE Wisconsin auto auction for many years. I worked for him part-time, so I swapped cars often, over 70 all together. Almost all had manual transmissions, I avoided automatics whenever possible until 2016. Anyway, here's my most memorable:
1947 Plymouth just awful
1936 Ford hotrod flathead
1935 Oldsmobile Camaro subframe and drivetrain
1937 Chevy bone stock
1947 Buick 502 Chevy with a 5 speed
1953 Mercury
1955 Ford
1957 Chevy
1958 Chevy Belair - my first 4 speed
1962 Plymouth Max wedge
1965 Plymouth Max wedge
1959 Vette - got it cheap because it had a 3 speed
1964 Corvair Monza spider - skipped 2nd gear to build boost for drag racing - ran in SS/J and won lots of races SS/B had to spot me 35 car lengths
1966 Porsche 911 - newer 911S engine
1966 Mustang GT
1960 Buick LeSabre with a 4 speed and it was stock
1961, 1964, 1966, 1967 and 1969 Vettes - my brother and I rebuilt them.
1966 Chevy II
1969 Chevy II 427 with an M22
1970 Challenger 440 6 pack
1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
1996 Toyota Supra
1997 Pontiac Trans AM WS6
2001 Honda S2000
2005 Subaru Forester XT
2009 BMW 335i (the last manual)
Plus lots of forgetable cars, especially from the 70s and 80s. I guess you could say the thrill of driving the manual transmission has long gone for me. But, some of my kids and grandkids I taught to drive manual still love them. I have some stories about that, too.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Balr14

My list? Wow, I don't think I can remember them all. My uncle ran a used car lot and the SE Wisconsin auto auction for many years. I worked for him part-time, so I swapped cars often, over 70 all together. Almost all had manual transmissions, I avoided automatics whenever possible until 2016. Anyway, here's my most memorable:
1947 Plymouth just awful
1936 Ford hotrod flathead
1935 Oldsmobile Camaro subframe and drivetrain
1937 Chevy bone stock
1947 Buick 502 Chevy with a 5 speed
1953 Mercury
1955 Ford
1957 Chevy
1958 Chevy Belair - my first 4 speed
1962 Plymouth Max wedge
1965 Plymouth Max wedge
1959 Vette - got it cheap because it had a 3 speed
1964 Corvair Monza spider - skipped 2nd gear to build boost for drag racing - ran in SS/J and won lots of races SS/B had to spot me 35 car lengths
1966 Porsche 911 - newer 911S engine
1966 Mustang GT
1960 Buick LeSabre with a 4 speed and it was stock
1961, 1964, 1966, 1967 and 1969 Vettes - my brother and I rebuilt them.
1966 Chevy II
1969 Chevy II 427 with an M22
1970 Challenger 440 6 pack
1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
1996 Toyota Supra
1997 Pontiac Trans AM WS6
2001 Honda S2000
2005 Subaru Forester XT
2009 BMW 335i (the last manual)
Plus lots of forgetable cars, especially from the 70s and 80s. I guess you could say the thrill of driving the manual transmission has long gone for me. But, some of my kids and grandkids I taught to drive manual still love them. I have some stories about that, too.

Amazing. I think the differences in our lists make for our disparate opinions on the matter. If you can get a chance try a manual 2001-2010 m coupe or M3 or M5. Then drive an SMG. Then a DCT. Then a manual C7 corvette and automatic. Also give a 993 or 997 or 991 manual a try. If you take it to extremes the GT3 or GT4 manuals are sublime and I’d take them over a PDK 8 days a week.

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Amazing. I think the differences in our lists make for our disparate opinions on the matter. If you can get a chance try a manual 2001-2010 m coupe or M3 or M5. Then drive an SMG. Then a DCT. Then a manual C7 corvette and automatic. Also give a 993 or 997 or 991 manual a try. If you take it to extremes the GT3 or GT4 manuals are sublime and I’d take them over a PDK 8 days a week.

I had a 997 manual and PDK. Also a 2013 427 Vette 6 speed. And a 1995 Viper. (Sorry I forgot them, I seem to recall the older ones better than the more recent models). I definitely prefer the manual to the automatic in a Vette. I definitely prefer the PDK in the 997.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I had a 997 manual and PDK. Also a 2013 427 Vette 6 speed. And a 1995 Viper. (Sorry I forgot them, I seem to recall the older ones better than the more recent models). I definitely prefer the manual to the automatic in a Vette. I definitely prefer the PDK in the 997.

There you go. And I think you’d find the bmw auto prior to DCT (including SMG) to be inferior. Since then (2010-ish), fuel efficiency mandates have accelerated the improvements in automatics and there is no denying the ZF8 superior performance.

[GerryC]

Originally Posted by Balr14

My list? Wow, I don't think I can remember them all. My uncle ran a used car lot and the SE Wisconsin auto auction for many years. I worked for him part-time, so I swapped cars often, over 70 all together. Almost all had manual transmissions, I avoided automatics whenever possible until 2016. Anyway, here's my most memorable:
...

1969 Chevy II 427 with an M22
...

Wow. A Chevy II with a big block and a rock crusher. I can only imagine what that sounded like.

Closest I had was a '71 Camaro SS 350 with an M21.

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by GerryC

Wow. A Chevy II with a big block and a rock crusher. I can only imagine what that sounded like.

Closest I had was a '71 Camaro SS 350 with an M21.

I used to start the car just to listen to it idle. Of all of the cars I've owned, that is one of the few I regret selling. The other two are the stock 37 Chevy and my 997.

[Horseman]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I used to start the car just to listen to it idle. Of all of the cars I've owned, that is one of the few I regret selling. The other two are the stock 37 Chevy and my 997.

I second this...

Just love starting her up and listening to the grumble. lol

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I used to start the car just to listen to it idle. Of all of the cars I've owned, that is one of the few I regret selling. The other two are the stock 37 Chevy and my 997.

Many years ago there was a guy in my neighborhood with a 69 442. I think it had the W-32 ram air package and you would get goosebumps listening to that engine idle!

[Wynnsiensheng]

Interesting that they were “forced” to review the Z4 because the electric car they were supposed to review had an electrical problem.