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      10-25-2018, 04:24 AM   #67
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* If not Trump, then whom?

Your welcome.
*Youíre welcum.
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      10-25-2018, 09:13 PM   #68
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Ted Cruz, with Newt Gingrich as a running mate.
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      10-25-2018, 09:28 PM   #69
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Sargent Carter, with Gomer Pyle as VP. We would not miss a bit, and would likely have a few laughs.
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      10-25-2018, 09:33 PM   #70
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* If not Trump, then whom?

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Wrong.
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      10-25-2018, 11:30 PM   #71
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Sargent Carter, with Gomer Pyle as VP. We would not miss a bit, and would likely have a few laughs.
A gay man as VP?
Pence would love that!

Ps I once lived on a street in San Antonio called Gomer Pyle. Right off John Wayne and Dean Martin.
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      10-26-2018, 12:00 AM   #72
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I was with newt Gingrich last time he ran but then he started wanting to build a colony on the moon and thatís when he fell off
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      10-26-2018, 08:46 AM   #73
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I was with newt Gingrich last time he ran but then he started wanting to build a colony on the moon and thatís when he fell off
I still like the Newt. He is a bit too partisan for my liking, but he is good at playing the D.C. game to get things done.
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      06-11-2019, 08:51 AM   #74
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[QUOTE=Joekerr;23894613]Hmm...my two picks would probably be:
- Mike Pence
- Ben Shapiro

Why - Mike is nicely conservative. He'll piss off a bunch with his religious views, but I'm quite ok with them. And I don't think he'll mouth off on Twitter, and honestly probably could be good for America.


Joekerr

Basically, I think that Pence is a nut-less white nationalist evangelical Christian who believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible.

Pence has willingly accepted his role as Trump's Bitch Boy..., in return for having significant influence in the White House, from the selection of Cabinet Members to Supreme Court Justices. As a result, Pence has demonstrated absolute deference to Trump and who will constantly and continually, obediently serve his master as his deputy and demonstrate a willingness to suffer indignity and humiliation at Trump's direction, as well as Trump's lack of respect for him.

Clearly, Pence has slyly played it both ways by being Trump's echo chamber trumpeter on some issues, while remaining conspicuously silent and in the background on other controversial issues. Pence is not stupid. I think he is actually very smart, as well as very calculating, playing the long game for the benefit of his political future. He understood that serving as Trump's VP would rescue his political career and potentially position himself to be the Republican front runner once Trump is out of office. He has also played his cards right so far, to position himself as a survivor if and/or when Trump ultimately goes down, for whatever reason.

Pence's history in politics involves various statements and proposed programs to implement far-right wing conservative, often racist and/or discriminatory policies, including racial segregation in schools, under the guise of religious convictions. Pence, along with his wife, support LGBTQ conversion therapy. He is definitely out of touch with the beliefs and desires of the majority of mainstream Americans. As you can probably guess, I do not support any of that.

Pence epitomizes those hypocritical Evangelical Christians (EC's), who support Donald Trump. He has not and will never acknowledge the disconnect between EC's political activity and the various biblical mandates and themes that contradict that said activity. It is striking to me that Pence and the majority of EC's support Trump, regardless of all of Trump's lying, infidelities, multiple marriages, multiple sexual assault and harassment allegations, ugly comments about immigrants, petty and vindictive insults thrown at anyone who dares to criticize him, etc.... Incredibly, none of that matters to him (or them). Apparently, for most EC's, they prefer Trump over what is best for all Americans.

IMHO, Pence is a better human being that Donald Trump, measured on most accounts. But a President Pence, would most likely be unbearable, creating a theocracy, with his EC fundamentalist faith, not reflecting the beliefs of the majority of Americans today. While I think Pence would be much more sane, (thankfully) and continue to practice his shrewd political savvy compared to Trump, at the end of the day, that would, in all likelihood, make him more dangerous to the secular beliefs of our country, as well as to the continuing trend for acceptance and tolerance of those not like us.

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      06-11-2019, 08:54 AM   #75
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Well, first of all, I know that almost all of you folks who are die-hard Trumpsters will vote for Trump for a second term in 2020, regardless of what he says or does between now and then. Also, I am sure that almost all registered Democrats, as well as all those on the political left, will ultimately vote for whomever will be the Democrat candidate. Therefore, in order for the Democrat candidate to win in 2020, he/she will need to be appealing enough to those undeclared moderates and Independent voters, especially in the key swing states of Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Illinois. So here are my initial thoughts on what the Democrat candidate should embody, look like and stand for, to appeal to those key deciding voters.

I think it is important to realize that Donald Trump isn't the real problem for Democrats. One of the main problems is the Democrats lack of an clear and appealing message to all Americans. The Democrats have moved too far and visibly in their desire to placate the far-left wing of the party. They no longer represent the working classes. The working class use to be the Democratic party's foundation. Now they feel like the Democrats have abandoned them and honestly, they have. The left wing of the party is dragging the rest of the Party into a culture war that cannot be won. The left never stops mocking these people and has become self-righteous & obsessed with trivial issues that have made the Dems a national laughing stock. This is politically disastrous and just plays into the hands of the right-wing mouthpiece Fox News. IMHO, Democrats cannot win over working-class swing voters if they persist in ridiculing their cultural values. The working class has legitimate concerns and the Democrats need to really listen to them and make viable proposals to help them. I remember when our citizens stood for the dignity of hard work, family, faith & coming together around basic "kitchen table” issues. Sadly, over the past 10 years the Democrat party has essentially abandoned those core values in a desperate attempt to please the strident advocates of identity politics. Trump wouldn't have capitalized on the salience of race and ethnicity if the Democrats hadn't exploited it. IMHO, it is past time for the Democrat Party to chart a new course back from the far let and towards the center politically, if they have any realistic hope to regain the presidency....

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      06-11-2019, 08:56 AM   #76
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First, let’s acknowledge some realities. Trump is a centripetal figure who has united the GOP around him even as he has divided the rest of us. Democrats, for the most part, are in centrifugal disarray. Apart from opposition to Trumpism and defense of ACA and wanting to ensure that people’s pre-existing conditions will continue to be covered, they have had no compelling message for the midterm election. Let alone, a identifiable, forceful, appealing, trustworthy messenger who might credibly challenge Trump in 2020.

Identity politics is a great turn-off in the rural heartland. After the Kavanaugh hearings, where the Senate Democrats went for broke and lost, we have the sad spectacle of red state Democrats desperately distancing themselves from their “crazy” liberal cousins on the coasts.

Democrats have to stop being so clueless. IMHO, and in retrospect, the reason Americans turned on President Obama in the 2010 midterms and the reason Hilary Clinton lost in 2016 is because they were clueless to what concerned many Americans. If President Obama, instead of expending his political capital by doggedly pursuing the ACA, and instead, had gone after the corrupt Wall Street bankers after the financial crisis, and if he had bailed out American homeowners instead of banks, and if he had pushed for the reinstatement of the financial protections such as Glass-Steagall Act that the Republicans gutted with the complicity of Bill Clinton, then President Obama would have been seen as a HERO.

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      06-11-2019, 09:00 AM   #77
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Like it or not, President Trump is expert at selling his toxic, destructive "brand" - his story, and on his terms. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama understood the importance of narrative too; that's why they connected so well and each served two terms. I have yet to see a possible Democratic candidate for 2020 who understands the importance of narrative, emotion, and personal connection. In a certain way, story matters more than strategy

IMHO, the ideal candidate to run against Donald Trump will be a person who can display righteous anger, counter-punch like crazy, make pleas for bipartisanship, have excellent well-reasoned policy proposals, and quote facts and statistic all day long, and none of it will put her or him in the White House. The ONLY thing that matters in an election to many (if not most) people, are the stories the candidates tell and the emotions they evoke and how well those candidates connect both those things to the people they talk to. The candidate really has to excite the voters and not be perceived as "the lesser of two evils", the way many voters viewed the two choices back in Nov. 2016.

Whoever President Trump's opponent will be in 2020, above all, this person needs to tell a compelling story why she or he will make a better president than Trump, a story about values and about American history and why other countries have historically looked up to us. That candidate needs to run on common-sense ideas like protecting Social Security and Medicare, protecting Americans against predatory Wall Street banks and credit card companies and social media companies and having sensible ideas to further increase job opportunities in both urban and rural areas alike.

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      06-11-2019, 09:07 AM   #78
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IMHO, the ideal presidential candidate that the Democrats should nominate in 2020 has to embody the following traits, values, beliefs and characteristics:

1. Be a fresh face, honest, passionate, likeable and charismatic personality.
2. Be authentic and believable.
3. Has to be able to withstand the cruelty of Trump and have a great comeback lines.
4. Has to defend the natural environment in our country and off shore.
5. Acknowledge our country’s responsibility to address global climate change.
6. Highlight the advantages of being closely allied with our historically allied nations
7. Embrace multiculturalism and respect the rights of women and gays.
8. Be someone who will energize the youth and minority vote.
9. Develop positions that appeal to working class Americans.
10. Stop focusing on raising taxes and talk more about raising wages.
11. Will strengthen our border controls and push for a sound immigration policy.
12. Embrace a living minimum wage of $15/hour, as part of a tightened immigration policy.
13. Outline a plan to save and strengthen the Medicare and Social Security programs.
14. Have a major national program to repair or replace our aging infrastructure system(s).
15. Reestablish economic ties and fair-trade deals with our neighbors and allies.
16. Be a smart campaigner who will visit battleground areas in electoral college swing states.
17. If possible, have served honorably in the U.S. military, (unlike Trump….)
18. Not have a sense of entitlement of being POTUS.

What the Democrat presidential candidate cannot have is:

- Much of a history with the tired, corrupt Democratic party
- Cannot have a heart of gold that’s going to save the world’s poor
- Cannot play to the extreme, or placate or patronize.
- Cannot come off as calculating and ambitious
- Cannot be a Republican masquerading as a Democrat.

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      06-11-2019, 05:53 PM   #79
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[QUOTE=AVB-AMG;24897017]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Hmm...my two picks would probably be:
- Mike Pence
- Ben Shapiro

Why - Mike is nicely conservative. He'll piss off a bunch with his religious views, but I'm quite ok with them. And I don't think he'll mouth off on Twitter, and honestly probably could be good for America.


Joekerr

Basically, I think that Pence is a nut-less white nationalist evangelical Christian who believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible.

Pence has willingly accepted his role as Trump's Bitch Boy..., in return for having significant influence in the White House, from the selection of Cabinet Members to Supreme Court Justices. As a result, Pence has demonstrated absolute deference to Trump and who will constantly and continually, obediently serve his master as his deputy and demonstrate a willingness to suffer indignity and humiliation at Trump's direction, as well as Trump's lack of respect for him.

Clearly, Pence has slyly played it both ways by being Trump's echo chamber trumpeter on some issues, while remaining conspicuously silent and in the background on other controversial issues. Pence is not stupid. I think he is actually very smart, as well as very calculating, playing the long game for the benefit of his political future. He understood that serving as Trump's VP would rescue his political career and potentially position himself to be the Republican front runner once Trump is out of office. He has also played his cards right so far, to position himself as a survivor if and/or when Trump ultimately goes down, for whatever reason.

Pence's history in politics involves various statements and proposed programs to implement far-right wing conservative, often racist and/or discriminatory policies, including racial segregation in schools, under the guise of religious convictions. Pence, along with his wife, support LGBTQ conversion therapy. He is definitely out of touch with the beliefs and desires of the majority of mainstream Americans. As you can probably guess, I do not support any of that.

Pence epitomizes those hypocritical Evangelical Christians (EC's), who support Donald Trump. He has not and will never acknowledge the disconnect between EC's political activity and the various biblical mandates and themes that contradict that said activity. It is striking to me that Pence and the majority of EC's support Trump, regardless of all of Trump's lying, infidelities, multiple marriages, multiple sexual assault and harassment allegations, ugly comments about immigrants, petty and vindictive insults thrown at anyone who dares to criticize him, etc.... Incredibly, none of that matters to him (or them). Apparently, for most EC's, they prefer Trump over what is best for all Americans.

IMHO, Pence is a better human being that Donald Trump, measured on most accounts. But a President Pence, would most likely be unbearable, creating a theocracy, with his EC fundamentalist faith, not reflecting the beliefs of the majority of Americans today. While I think Pence would be much more sane, (thankfully) and continue to practice his shrewd political savvy compared to Trump, at the end of the day, that would, in all likelihood, make him more dangerous to the secular beliefs of our country, as well as to the continuing trend for acceptance and tolerance of those not like us.

AVB-AMG
Hate to break it to you but ECs and many many people (enough to get him elected) think Trump is best for this country.

Be prepared to grab a tissue because come 2020 he will be elected once again.

Just out of curiosity how do you know what the beliefs of a majority of Americans are? Just because they are YOUR beliefs doesn't make them the beliefs of a majority of Americans
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      06-11-2019, 06:04 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
Like it or not, President Trump is expert at selling his toxic, destructive "brand" - his story, and on his terms. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama understood the importance of narrative too; that's why they connected so well and each served two terms. I have yet to see a possible Democratic candidate for 2020 who understands the importance of narrative, emotion, and personal connection. In a certain way, story matters more than strategy

IMHO, the ideal candidate to run against Donald Trump will be a person who can display righteous anger, counter-punch like crazy, make pleas for bipartisanship, have excellent well-reasoned policy proposals, and quote facts and statistic all day long, and none of it will put her or him in the White House. The ONLY thing that matters in an election to many (if not most) people, are the stories the candidates tell and the emotions they evoke and how well those candidates connect both those things to the people they talk to. The candidate really has to excite the voters and not be perceived as "the lesser of two evils", the way many voters viewed the two choices back in Nov. 2016.

Whoever President Trump's opponent will be in 2020, above all, this person needs to tell a compelling story why she or he will make a better president than Trump, a story about values and about American history and why other countries have historically looked up to us. That candidate needs to run on common-sense ideas like protecting Social Security and Medicare, protecting Americans against predatory Wall Street banks and credit card companies and social media companies and having sensible ideas to further increase job opportunities in both urban and rural areas alike.

AVB-AMG


I'm getting a kick out of your posts. So your saying/hoping that one of the Democratic candidates currently running for president possesses some of these attributes/proposals?

That's a laugh. They want open borders, ICE eliminated, socialized everything etc etc.....

Sorry man. That's not gonna work for many people. The Dems have nothing to offer except for we hate orange man. This WILL NOT win in 2020.
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      06-11-2019, 06:15 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post

Joekerr

Basically, I think that Pence is a nut-less white nationalist evangelical Christian who believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible.

Pence has willingly accepted his role as Trump's Bitch Boy..., in return for having significant influence in the White House, from the selection of Cabinet Members to Supreme Court Justices. As a result, Pence has demonstrated absolute deference to Trump and who will constantly and continually, obediently serve his master as his deputy and demonstrate a willingness to suffer indignity and humiliation at Trump's direction, as well as Trump's lack of respect for him.

Clearly, Pence has slyly played it both ways by being Trump's echo chamber trumpeter on some issues, while remaining conspicuously silent and in the background on other controversial issues. Pence is not stupid. I think he is actually very smart, as well as very calculating, playing the long game for the benefit of his political future. He understood that serving as Trump's VP would rescue his political career and potentially position himself to be the Republican front runner once Trump is out of office. He has also played his cards right so far, to position himself as a survivor if and/or when Trump ultimately goes down, for whatever reason.

Pence's history in politics involves various statements and proposed programs to implement far-right wing conservative, often racist and/or discriminatory policies, including racial segregation in schools, under the guise of religious convictions. Pence, along with his wife, support LGBTQ conversion therapy. He is definitely out of touch with the beliefs and desires of the majority of mainstream Americans. As you can probably guess, I do not support any of that.

Pence epitomizes those hypocritical Evangelical Christians (EC's), who support Donald Trump. He has not and will never acknowledge the disconnect between EC's political activity and the various biblical mandates and themes that contradict that said activity. It is striking to me that Pence and the majority of EC's support Trump, regardless of all of Trump's lying, infidelities, multiple marriages, multiple sexual assault and harassment allegations, ugly comments about immigrants, petty and vindictive insults thrown at anyone who dares to criticize him, etc.... Incredibly, none of that matters to him (or them). Apparently, for most EC's, they prefer Trump over what is best for all Americans.

IMHO, Pence is a better human being that Donald Trump, measured on most accounts. But a President Pence, would most likely be unbearable, creating a theocracy, with his EC fundamentalist faith, not reflecting the beliefs of the majority of Americans today. While I think Pence would be much more sane, (thankfully) and continue to practice his shrewd political savvy compared to Trump, at the end of the day, that would, in all likelihood, make him more dangerous to the secular beliefs of our country, as well as to the continuing trend for acceptance and tolerance of those not like us.

AVB-AMG
As an Evangelical Christian, I am glad that you reopened a 6 month old thread so that I could find out what a terrible person I am. I never realized that before.
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      06-11-2019, 07:24 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
If President Obama, instead of expending his political capital by doggedly pursuing the ACA, and instead, had gone after the corrupt Wall Street bankers after the financial crisis, and if he had bailed out American homeowners instead of banks, and if he had pushed for the reinstatement of the financial protections such as Glass-Steagall Act that the Republicans gutted with the complicity of Bill Clinton, then President Obama would have been seen as a HERO.

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      06-11-2019, 07:26 PM   #83
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[QUOTE=SakhirM4;24899580]
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Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post

As an Evangelical Christian, I am glad that you reopened a 6 month old thread so that I could find out what a terrible person I am. I never realized that before.
Yeah, I was pretty surprised myself to get quoted almost 8 months later only to find out it was to say I'm a terrible person as well as a Christian.

But part of me wasn't surprised, since the Bible already taught me I'm a terrible person apart from Christ, but God loves me anyways.
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      06-11-2019, 10:12 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post


I'm getting a kick out of your posts. So your saying/hoping that one of the Democratic candidates currently running for president possesses some of these attributes/proposals?

That's a laugh. They want open borders, ICE eliminated, socialized everything etc etc.....

Sorry man. That's not gonna work for many people. The Dems have nothing to offer except for we hate orange man. This WILL NOT win in 2020.
///M4ster Yoda :

Keep in mind that the mainstream media is primarily interested in getting eyeballs to watch their TV programs, provocative click-bait for their online articles and sensationalized stories to sell newspapers. Their focus is on the extreme personalities of both the right and left. All of that so-called press is very misleading, which is why many folks mistakenly believe that all Republicans or Democrats think the same way and share the most extreme views of either Party. Guess what, they don't. Not all of us moderate, independents "want open borders, ICE eliminated, socialized everything, etc...". What I want, and many people who share my sentiments want, is someone who is sane, rational, interested and knowledgeable of history, respectful of what our founding fathers worked so hard to create in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights and ultimately has the best interest in doing what is right for ALL Americans, not just his voter base. IMHO, the key factor for ANY Democrat presidential nominee to win, beating Donald Trump, is the following. That candidate will need to not only receive the support and votes of registered Democrats and the vast majority of minorities, but also the moderate Independents who voted for Trump in 2016, specifically the suburban women.

Drilling down a bit deeper, in order to assess the upcoming 2020 presidential election, we all need to rationally and honestly look at the facts of where we are now and how we got here, in order to develop our thoughts and opinions of what may happen moving forward. In an attempt to look at this from both sides, here is my current assessment:

The angry, "left behind," nativists in our midst have not benefited from the Trump regime so far. The only success of this regime was the Republican Senate sponsored tax cut, which went mostly to the uber wealthy and the multi-national corporations. The middle class got, at best, temporary crumbs. As for the booming economy, a remarkable 40% of the population isn't able to scrape together a mere $1,000 to weather an emergency, like major surgery or a car crash. With no plan or ideas of how to improve our national health care, infrastructure improvement, the Trump administration cannot point to these areas for any success. Rationally thinking, it is stretching credulity to believe that a majority of Americans are going to opt for another four years of babbling incoherence and more rewards for the top 5% of Americans. Trump’s administration is a daily carnival of shame and ultimately, I believe that his lack of a moral compass, along with his increasingly bizarre behavior, may very well be his downfall.

Is there a chance Trump will win re-election in the 2020 election?
Of course there is, based on a number of factors, with these being my TOP 10 reasons:

1. The U.S. economy is currently very strong, something that Trump is claiming is the result of his policies, but in reality is in spite of them, (i.e. trade tariffs and the threat of war with Iran and/or Venezuela).
2. The U.S. unemployment rate is at its lowest point in a generation.
3. The Democrats could nominate a weak candidate.
4. A third party could sap Democratic votes.
5. The election process could be profoundly subverted by some means or another, such as Russian intervention and interference, secret PAC money, and of course...corruption.
6. The 'developed' world has tipped heavily authoritarian, anti-immigrant and is willing to skip a lot of moral complexity to rationalize that “the ends justify the means…”.
7. The left prefers reasoned argument, but is so angry at Trump that it can't think either strategically and tactically enough to plan how to defeat the man.
8. The cultural, social, and economic insecurities that fuel nationalist populist anxiety still remain today and may be getting stronger.
9. The growing lack of respect for our democratic values, separation of powers doctrine, and most importantly, the Constitution.
10. The Electoral College (again).

At this point in time, I do believe that Trump is probably the most likely, if unthinkably grim, person to take the 2020 presidency again.

With the 24 announced Democrat candidates so for, it appears that the left is flailing in the face of a right-wing that is increasingly nationilistic, illiberal, lawless, and buffoonish. IMHO, it is losing to losers. Democrats and other progressives have a morass of moral issues on their side, with a host of combatants willing to take on he-who-would-be-king. But those on the left seem to be afraid of fighting Trump and the Republicans' dirty fight by their rules. The Democrats are all over the board, except their united desire to defeat Trump -- and that's not a plan, only a wish. It is way past time for the Democrats to loudly state their support in the belief and the benefits of free markets with minimal regulation, the importance of law and order, the superiority of Western values, and a healthy respect for the moral reflexes of ordinary people. We on the left have a short time to get a whole lot smarter…

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      06-11-2019, 10:19 PM   #85
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You mean you're all converting to the right if that's the platform?
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      06-11-2019, 10:30 PM   #86
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This thread is a waste of pixels.

Trump will undoubtedly remain President of the United States through 2025.

Anyone who thinks otherwise can go pound sand.
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      06-11-2019, 10:35 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVB-AMG View Post
Basically, I think that Pence is a nut-less white nationalist evangelical Christian who believes in the literal interpretation of the Bible.
Would it be different if he wasn't white?
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      06-11-2019, 10:35 PM   #88
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I firmly hope so but am not so confident.
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