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      08-30-2019, 09:32 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
So I can get this straight - because I was responsible and worked 50hrs a week through undergrad and busted my ass so I could get a scholarship for grad school and you didn't and borrowed money because you chose poorly - I should have my money forcibly taken from me and given to you?

I got two words for that...screw you.


I'll light it on fire before I give it to someone that didn't earn it.
As much as I agree with you, the problem is we're already giving our money away as long as entitlement programs exist without any realistic termination date. When a politician like Sanders or Warren promotes these types of policies, why wouldn't the entire college population/young white collar workers vote for them? Dems have for a long time been winning on the free stuff campaign.

Going on another tangent, I don't see how conservatives can win this fight long term, unless a socially progressive Democrat runs with fiscally conservative values. The problem is a lot of these social progressive ideas cross over into the fiscal space, but I really believe a compromise can be had. A lot of these social progressive policies make no sense to me, but if there could be a way to let people do as they will on their own coin, I think this country could finally start coming together again and both parties start to work together once more. We're still going to disagree on social issues, but at least there'd be some hope of not spending ourselves into bankruptcy.
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      08-30-2019, 09:40 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
I'm glad to hear it was unintentional, but the repeated "Naw, couldn't be" came across as extremely condescending, FYI.

FWIW, I agree that government meddling is not the way to "fix" the college tuition issues.

The point I was trying to make is that college is apparently very unique when it comes to inflationary pricing of its goods/services within our marketplace over the recent past.
1) I was trying to be condescending - just not to you. It was rhetorical and should have been condescending to anyone who thinks that government is the solution to college inflation, rather than the culprit. Mea Cupla anyway.

2) It isn't really that unique. You will find out of control inflation costs in nearly anything that has substantial government influence causing non-market related supply or demand artificial corrections. The housing bubble was one example I gave. Another is defense contract spending. There are many more.
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      08-30-2019, 09:48 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
1) I was trying to be condescending - just not to you. It was rhetorical and should have been condescending to anyone who thinks that government is the solution to college inflation, rather than the culprit. Mea Cupla anyway.

2) It isn't really that unique. You will find out of control inflation costs in nearly anything that has substantial government influence causing non-market related supply or demand artificial corrections. The housing bubble was one example I gave. Another is defense contract spending. There are many more.
Defense spending is a train wreck in its own ecosystem, so I wouldn't include that personally.

Housing is closer, but I'm not sure even housing prices saw 400+% inflation, certainly not in a majority of places.

Like I said, there is definitely no good or service that I use in my life that has increased anywhere near that rate since the mid-90s, to include housing.
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      08-30-2019, 09:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
Okay I guess you're the perfect example of one of the idiots who don't understand & just blurt out an Answer.

It's not just about me or my siblings. its about your children, your brothers children or may be one of your friend whose going through college. or any other american child whose unable to afford college.

It's about each & every American child out there who wants to be educated but can't because they are not able to afford education.

It's not just about me so, first of all, let's try to be civil here.& think about the bigger picture.
College degrees will be completely worthless if they are just participation trophies. Hell they are borderline worthless right now save you are a doctor, engineer, etc. I work in tech and people can get good paying jobs here simply by getting cheap salesforce certifications through FREE YouTube programs.

And who cares if you have a higher paying job when the government is taxing you at more than half your income? At that point, you would be salivating to have your college loan back and at least SOME money in your pocket.

You have to recognize that these are not “government funded”, that doesn’t exist. You are just pushing your loans onto the rest of us, and progressive politicians just get more power while giving you some bullshit degree that’s worth NOTHING.
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      08-30-2019, 10:04 AM   #49
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^^^^classic AOC economics right there.
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      08-30-2019, 10:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
It's true that it's not as free as most people think but has a look at it this way. & you would understand if you've got kids. Won't it be more convenient for you if you pay a 1.35$ for a product which is 1.25$ currently? then pay thousands of dollars intuition later.
I have 3 grown children, and I live in a country that has very high tax rates that never go down. We have subsidized post secondary education here which seems reasonable. There have been a number of politicians who have promised free education and free dental, pharma etc. We are already at a point that we are taxed at nearly or above 50% depending on your income once you factor in all the taxes we pay. Fully funding education would triple the cost to government over the current model.

Once government gives you free education, health care etc then what because human nature will be to want more free stuff and politicians will promise it....this my friend is the road to socialism which has never worked.
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      08-30-2019, 10:16 AM   #51
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      08-30-2019, 10:24 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
Okay, I guess you're the perfect example of one of the idiots who doesn't understand & just blurts out an answer.

It's not just about me or my siblings, it's about your children, your brother's children or maybe one of your friends who is going through college; or any other American child who is unable to afford college.

It's about each & every American child out there who wants to be educated but can't because they are not able to afford an education.

It's not just about me, so first of all, let's try to be civil here and think about the bigger picture.


Okay - so two things.

1) Your grammar and sentence structure is atrocious. I've taken the liberty of correcting it for you above so that others may be able to better understand you.

2) University is free for nearly anyone in the the United States that wants it to be. They just have to make an effort. There are currently over $14,000,000,000 of scholarships available in this country that go unclaimed every year. That is 14 billion dollars. Yes, with a B. So long as someone makes an effort in High School, there are plenty of scholarships to get a full ride to college in this country. In addition, 42 out of the 50 state offer completely free associates degrees at community colleges for anyone who graduates High School with a 'C' average or better. Between available scholarships and the first two years completely free, there is no reason anyone should graduate with debt these days.
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      08-30-2019, 10:33 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Okay - so two things.

1) Your grammar and sentence structure is atrocious. I've taken the liberty of correcting it for you above so that others may be able to better understand you.

2) University is free for nearly anyone in the the United States that wants it to be. They just have to make an effort. There are currently over $14,000,000,000 of scholarships available in this country that go unclaimed every year. That is 14 billion dollars. Yes, with a B. So long as someone makes an effort in High School, there are plenty of scholarships to get a full ride to college in this country. In addition, 42 out of the 50 state offer completely free associates degrees at community colleges for anyone who graduates High School with a 'C' average or better. Between available scholarships and the first two years completely free, there is no reason anyone should graduate with debt these days.
Doesn't the US also have the GI bill ? I know that similar options are available in Canada as well. If you have the grades you can enrol in University and the military at the same time, attend university tuition paid plus $1500/month salary. During summer/school breaks you work for the military and do your military training. Upon completion of school you do your service as an officer.

I think the problem is too many people want a gender studies degree without having to put out the effort. I think those who enter STEM or other professional programs they know they will have to put in the effort both applied and working to support it or pay for loans, but they will also get a good job when they are done.

I think more support should be made for STEM/Professional designations and all the feel good stuff should be fully funded by the student who can then use their barista salary to pay the debt.
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      08-30-2019, 10:39 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Okay - so two things.

1) Your grammar and sentence structure is atrocious. I've taken the liberty of correcting it for you above so that others may be able to better understand you.

2) University is free for nearly anyone in the the United States that wants it to be. They just have to make an effort. There are currently over $14,000,000,000 of scholarships available in this country that go unclaimed every year. That is 14 billion dollars. Yes, with a B. So long as someone makes an effort in High School, there are plenty of scholarships to get a full ride to college in this country. In addition, 42 out of the 50 state offer completely free associates degrees at community colleges for anyone who graduates High School with a 'C' average or better. Between available scholarships and the first two years completely free, there is no reason anyone should graduate with debt these days.
Thanks for the translation!

And your second point is absolutely true. I fully believe that there is no reason everyone shouldn't receive the next two years of education post HS and there is no reason that it should drive anyone into dire debt. With the exception of Medicine and Law, there is no reason to complete grad school with debt, as well. It's lack of information and effort that cause these poorly informed decisions leading to back-breaking debt for students that we have to eliminate.

The overall value of a college degree cannot be overstated not just for education but also discipline and exposure to new people and ideas that really can't take place outside a university environment. While there is quite a bit of bad (indoctrination and debt), the good far outweighs the negative aspects.

Cheers-mk
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      08-30-2019, 10:44 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
Okay I guess you're the perfect example of one of the idiots who don't understand & just blurt out an Answer.

It's not just about me or my siblings. its about your children, your brothers children or may be one of your friend whose going through college. or any other american child whose unable to afford college.

It's about each & every American child out there who wants to be educated but can't because they are not able to afford education.

It's not just about me so, first of all, let's try to be civil here.& think about the bigger picture.
Um...
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      08-30-2019, 10:45 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Doesn't the US also have the GI bill ? I know that similar options are available in Canada as well. If you have the grades you can enrol in University and the military at the same time, attend university tuition paid plus $1500/month salary. During summer/school breaks you work for the military and do your military training. Upon completion of school you do your service as an officer.

I think the problem is too many people want a gender studies degree without having to put out the effort. I think those who enter STEM or other professional programs they know they will have to put in the effort both applied and working to support it or pay for loans, but they will also get a good job when they are done.

I think more support should be made for STEM/Professional designations and all the feel good stuff should be fully funded by the student who can then use their barista salary to pay the debt.
1) We don't have the GI Bill anymore, it's been replaced by a new system of similar but better benefits. Those systems, however, require you to enlist into the military first for several years, then you can go to college afterwards. This is what I did. My GI Bill covered $30,000 - which paid for about 2.5yrs of my undergrad. I paid the rest out of pocket via working full time. I graduated undergrad with a near perfect 'A' average, so I received a full scholarship to grad school, with the understanding that I would teach lower level classes while enrolled. I borrowed no money.

2) ROTC is a system similar to what you describe - which allows a student to go to college free, with the understanding that they will have to serve in the military as an officer for a determined period of time after graduation. This is great, but obviously not for everyone - since not all are cut out, nor may they desire, to be in the military.

3) STEM programs, in the form of scholarships (both government funded and privately funded) are very available here in the U.S., but many go unclaimed. So long as someone has the desire, ability, and grades to justify admittance, it is very easy to get a fully free STEM degree here.
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      08-30-2019, 11:21 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
I've got student loans that I have to pay & I have younger siblings one whose going through college, & another whose in high school at the moment & they will also be at the same place where I am today paying back their tuitions & working 80 hours a week just to make ends meet & paying back the loans.
So if she can really do that it would be a great thing for people like us.
Don't give a crap about people like you who want so many that have worked and saved to bail you out. You probably had options for less costly school and/or more financially lucrative majors.
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      08-30-2019, 11:36 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
It's true that it's not as free as most people think but has a look at it this way. & you would understand if you've got kids. Won't it be more convenient for you if you pay a 1.35$ for a product which is 1.25$ currently? then pay thousands of dollars intuition later.
I have kids, one graduated college and the other still attending and I assure you I don’t want free for all college, that is a doomed plan before it even gets off the launch pad.
If you think prices will only rise about 8% your kidding yourself. Under the dems plans for ‘free’ college for all prices will skyrocket and taxes will explode. Just go ask the citizens of Sweden whose taxes alone are over 50% of their income. Yes that Sweden, the gold standard of socialism admired talked about by Bernie and Lizzie for years now, until it crashed. They don’t talk about Sweden anymore hoping the ignorant won’t figure it out. Seems many haven’t.
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      08-30-2019, 11:42 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
I've got student loans that I have to pay & I have younger siblings one whose going through college, & another whose in high school at the moment & they will also be at the same place where I am today paying back their tuitions & working 80 hours a week just to make ends meet & paying back the loans.
So if she can really do that it would be a great thing for people like us.

Oh - also, just so I can get this straight.

You are so broke that you cannot afford your student loans and have to work 80 hours a week to make ends meet.

but......

You drive a $40,000 car?

Hmmmm.....I believe I may have found your problem!

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      08-30-2019, 11:54 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
1) We don't have the GI Bill anymore,
Point of Order

We do still have the GI Bill; it has morphed through several versions over the years but it is still the GI Bill. The current version is the Post 9/11 GI Bill - which provides 3 years of paid college tuition, book stipend, and housing allowance while you are attending. Anyone who served at least 24 months after 9/11/01 is eligible for this benefit.

If you served less than 24 months, you still get a prorated 3 years of coverage. For example, I was in service for 21 months after 9/11 and received 70% of tuition and housing for 3 years of school.
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      08-30-2019, 12:12 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Oh - also, just so I can get this straight.

You are so broke that you cannot afford your student loans and have to work 80 hours a week to make ends meet.

but......

You drive a $40,000 car?

Hmmmm.....I believe I may have found your problem!

I noticed that - the reason for my ugly first response. I'm sure this person has many other non-essential essentials in their self centered life.
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      08-30-2019, 12:37 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Uber Commuter View Post
Point of Order

We do still have the GI Bill; it has morphed through several versions over the years but it is still the GI Bill. The current version is the Post 9/11 GI Bill - which provides 3 years of paid college tuition, book stipend, and housing allowance while you are attending. Anyone who served at least 24 months after 9/11/01 is eligible for this benefit.

If you served less than 24 months, you still get a prorated 3 years of coverage. For example, I was in service for 21 months after 9/11 and received 70% of tuition and housing for 3 years of school.
Sorry - semantics. My GI Bill required a portion be paid by me within my first year of service and then I received up to $30K for college expenses once I satisfied my enlistment.

I remember I had to battle to get it because I exceeded the time allocation between when I left the service and when I went to college - but this was due to me being seconded to the DoD and a Govt. Agency for many years after I was done with active duty. Since I remained overseas for most of my time with the government after I was done with the military, there was some ambiguity. Pissed me off, but ultimately it was resolved favorably.
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      08-30-2019, 12:57 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillcooper View Post
I've got student loans that I have to pay & I have younger siblings one whose going through college, & another whose in high school at the moment & they will also be at the same place where I am today paying back their tuitions & working 80 hours a week just to make ends meet & paying back the loans.
So if she can really do that it would be a great thing for people like us.
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      08-30-2019, 01:28 PM   #64
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Wait, I just changed my voting preference. I forgot I keep Zelle-ing $500/month to my son to pay his loans for college. WHAT WAS I THINKING???

Since you all (Except CPAs like Run Silent ) paid for my master's degree, where I agreed to continue DoD employment for twice the time I spent in school, I guess I already know what "free" schooling looks like. Fight On!
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      08-30-2019, 01:42 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
As a related tangent - when I graduated high school in '93, the local community college was charging $60/credit for tuition, Michigan State University was, as I recollect, about $120-125/credit.

Since we recently moved back to East Lansing, my wife was considering "auditing" a couple of classes at MSU. Their current tuition rate is between $482/credit and $555/credit hour.
http://www.ctlr.msu.edu/COStudentAcc...rgraduate.aspx



Is there some other industry where the cost has increased 400+% in the last 25 years? I can't think of anything or service that I currently use or buy that has, honestly.
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      08-30-2019, 01:55 PM   #66
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