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      10-11-2019, 03:28 PM   #177
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Looks ugly, reminiscent to the design trials from the 2000s with the E60 and E65. M7ch better to keep the style when everyone is trying to be 'original' with 'radical' (ridiculous in fact) styling.
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      10-11-2019, 04:18 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
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Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
Have you seen any of the commentary on why Krueger stepped down or was let go? Outwardly, sure they want us to see it as you say but they don't feel it is a true success.
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      10-11-2019, 04:29 PM   #179
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BMW's grile used to be associated with the nose, now it is clearly the ass.
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      10-11-2019, 04:35 PM   #180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
Have you seen any of the commentary on why Krueger stepped down or was let go? Outwardly, sure they want us to see it as you say but they don't feel it is a true success.
Failure would mean a change in direction.

That's not what they are doing.

Full Steam Forward with Electrified...
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      10-11-2019, 04:47 PM   #181
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Does everyone remember the controversial Chris Bangle Designed cars? The 7 and 5 series of that era have just about died at this point. The classic e39 and e46 though dates still look great when I see them. Change is good, but if you radically try to do something different fans wont like it. Also, think about the 911... the 996 headlights got horrible reviews as a departure from the class look, and guess what.. we all still hate them and while the 993 rises in value you can get a 996 for 10k. change and evolution is good if it is in fact good change and evolution.
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      10-11-2019, 04:52 PM   #182
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Does everyone remember the controversial Chris Bangle Designed cars?
Quite a few... including the many people who have already mentioned Bangle in this thread.
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      10-11-2019, 04:54 PM   #183
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I can't believe that I'm the only one??
Possibly one of the silent majority.

When we see the actual production car and note the sales volume, we'll know.
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      10-11-2019, 05:05 PM   #184
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full steam towards electrification, yet they're like the slowest in the major players...
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      10-11-2019, 05:26 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Where do u put the license plate??
In the trash.

Front plates are for the garage wall at best.
Well that's true but you must not live in USA. We don't have that option
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      10-11-2019, 06:02 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Where do u put the license plate??
In the trash.

Front plates are for the garage wall at best.
Well that's true but you must not live in USA. We don't have that option
I actually do.

Just not in one of the extremely uptight states.

If I had to run one, if get one of the tow hook mount plate holders.

I also find that when I do get pulled over, the nicer I am, the nicer they are in return.
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      10-11-2019, 06:25 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Where do u put the license plate??
In the trash.

Front plates are for the garage wall at best.
Well that's true but you must not live in USA. We don't have that option
I actually do.

Just not in one of the extremely uptight states.

If I had to run one, if get one of the tow hook mount plate holders.

I also find that when I do get pulled over, the nicer I am, the nicer they are in return.
His question is actually important. Pretty much every US vehicle is designed with rear AND FRONT license plates in mind. Whether you want to install one or not, that's up to you. But legally, you must mount a front license plate on your vehicle (depending on state registered in) and using the front tow hook or on the dash in the front windshield is not really a solution the average customer would approve of.
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      10-11-2019, 06:30 PM   #188
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I'm pretty open minded but i'll never accept those grills. Totally out of balance with the front of the car.
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      10-11-2019, 06:38 PM   #189
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      10-11-2019, 07:01 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Where do u put the license plate??
In the trash.

Front plates are for the garage wall at best.
Well that's true but you must not live in USA. We don't have that option
I actually do.

Just not in one of the extremely uptight states.

If I had to run one, if get one of the tow hook mount plate holders.

I also find that when I do get pulled over, the nicer I am, the nicer they are in return.
His question is actually important. Pretty much every US vehicle is designed with rear AND FRONT license plates in mind. Whether you want to install one or not, that's up to you. But legally, you must mount a front license plate on your vehicle (depending on state registered in) and using the front tow hook or on the dash in the front windshield is not really a solution the average customer would approve of.
Then like an Audi, dead in the middle is the only option the way I see it.
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      10-11-2019, 07:01 PM   #191
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I'm pretty open minded but i'll never accept those grills. Totally out of balance with the front of the car.
We haven't actually seen the real reveal.
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      10-11-2019, 07:24 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
Have you seen any of the commentary on why Krueger stepped down or was let go? Outwardly, sure they want us to see it as you say but they don't feel it is a true success.
Failure would mean a change in direction.

That's not what they are doing.

Full Steam Forward with Electrified...
I guess you don't understand the definition of failure. From Merriam-Webster dictionary: failure: lack of success; falling short. Look it up. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure

That doesn't mean they're changing direction, which you seem to think is what I'm referring to, it's not. It means they haven't hit their goals. Whether they were/are realistic, or not, is another debate.

This is off topic though and is not concerning the defense of the styling language.
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      10-11-2019, 07:27 PM   #193
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BMW's grile used to be associated with the nose, now it is clearly the ass.
You could say it's back asswards
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      10-11-2019, 07:28 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
Have you seen any of the commentary on why Krueger stepped down or was let go? Outwardly, sure they want us to see it as you say but they don't feel it is a true success.
Failure would mean a change in direction.

That's not what they are doing.

Full Steam Forward with Electrified...
I guess you don't understand the definition of failure. From Merriam-Webster dictionary: failure: lack of success; falling short. Look it up. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure

That doesn't mean they're changing direction, which you seem to think is what I'm referring to, it's not. It means they haven't hit their goals. Whether they were/are realistic, or not, is another debate.

This is off topic though and is not concerning the defense of the styling language.
Using your definition, anything less than 100 is a failure.

Furthermore, using your definition, BMW has failed as a Car Company in the United States for a number of years now.

In fact, using your terms, BMW has failed in every Country but China this year.
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      10-11-2019, 07:54 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
Have you seen any of the commentary on why Krueger stepped down or was let go? Outwardly, sure they want us to see it as you say but they don't feel it is a true success.
Failure would mean a change in direction.

That's not what they are doing.

Full Steam Forward with Electrified...
I guess you don't understand the definition of failure. From Merriam-Webster dictionary: failure: lack of success; falling short. Look it up. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure

That doesn't mean they're changing direction, which you seem to think is what I'm referring to, it's not. It means they haven't hit their goals. Whether they were/are realistic, or not, is another debate.

This is off topic though and is not concerning the defense of the styling language.
Using your definition, anything less than 100 is a failure.

Furthermore, using your definition, BMW has failed as a Car Company in the United States for a number of years now.

In fact, using your terms, BMW has failed in every Country but China this year.
What's your point? :

This has nothing to do with the OP topic, which is regarding the design language of these newer looking cars.
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      10-11-2019, 08:06 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
Have you seen any of the commentary on why Krueger stepped down or was let go? Outwardly, sure they want us to see it as you say but they don't feel it is a true success.
Failure would mean a change in direction.

That's not what they are doing.

Full Steam Forward with Electrified...
I guess you don't understand the definition of failure. From Merriam-Webster dictionary: failure: lack of success; falling short. Look it up. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure

That doesn't mean they're changing direction, which you seem to think is what I'm referring to, it's not. It means they haven't hit their goals. Whether they were/are realistic, or not, is another debate.

This is off topic though and is not concerning the defense of the styling language.
Using your definition, anything less than 100 is a failure.

Furthermore, using your definition, BMW has failed as a Car Company in the United States for a number of years now.

In fact, using your terms, BMW has failed in every Country but China this year.
What's your point? :

This has nothing to do with the OP topic, which is regarding the design language of these newer looking cars.
My point is simple....that what you claim to be a BMW failure was not.

No Corporate Head of a Public Company would dare continue full steam ahead on a program that was seen as a Company "failure".
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      10-11-2019, 09:13 PM   #197
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The grill is silly. It's like the penis compensation front end of a mid-70s Corvette.
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      10-11-2019, 09:43 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
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Where do u put the license plate??
In the trash.

Front plates are for the garage wall at best.
Well that's true but you must not live in USA. We don't have that option
I actually do.

Just not in one of the extremely uptight states.

If I had to run one, if get one of the tow hook mount plate holders.

I also find that when I do get pulled over, the nicer I am, the nicer they are in return.
I think in NYC if you street park without front plate you're probably going to come back with a ticket to start with...
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