[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by supra93

I think a lot of you guys are forgetting some key factors. The MK4 is expensive due to the rising Yen and the Japanese bubble in the 90s. A lot of high end to mid level Japanese sports cars also took a sales dive during this period, not just the A80. Case in point, Toyota sold X3 the amount of Supras in Japan than they did in the US. SMH at the F&F non sense, they were still relatively affordable until just a few years ago.

I never forgot that but that doesn't change the fact that th MK4 was an absolute porker in its day and that it wasn't as good of a driver's car as an FD RX7 or markedly better than a 300ZX (both of those cars have much cleaner, more timeless designs).

[supra93]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I never forgot that but that doesn't change the fact that th MK4 was an absolute porker in its day and that it wasn't as good of a driver's car as an FD RX7 or markedly better than a 300ZX (both of those cars have much cleaner, more timeless designs).

She ain't no Miata, but also not 3,600lbs as you claim (3,450lbs USA and 1,570kg or 3461lbs JP) which was not much more than a Z32 (3,240lbs) this was the only press release I could find, assuming it's a base model NA 2 seater??? Wikipedia had more trim and weight listed for the 2+2 (3,414lbs NA and 3,582lbs turbo), regardless, I feel like we're splitting hair at this point, but if you want to see a real pig you should look up the 3000GT VR-4 (3,759lbs) For those of us that actually own FDs there is a reason why it weighs as much as it did. A lot of us won't mind an extra hundred or two pounds if that meant the interior pieces and door handles weren't so fragile.

Regarding visual appearances, that is completely subjective and you are entitled to your opinion. Recalling previous discussions, it seems you are not a fan of the A80's styling. Which is fine, different strokes for different folks. My prior comments were simple fact base, but I can also add my 2 cents on the matter. Do I think it's the best-looking car ever made, nope, but I think it looks relatively good for its time period. Pre-Covid I use to drive it a lot and people were always asking me about my car and most are shocked to learn that it's a 93. Many of them think it's a modern day car. IMO, that is what "timeless designs" is.

[RM7]

MK4 and MK3 supra turbos were special, just like all the other Japanese sports cars.

[Germanauto]

Saw on Toyota's website these come in loaded around $60k...not bad.

Compelling when even 5 yr old Boxster S' are still going for $60-75k.

Will have to test drive at some point. Will need a new ride within 2 yrs

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by RM7

MK4 and MK3 supra turbos were special, just like all the other Japanese sports cars.

Let some tell it, the MK4 Supra only reached the heights of popularity due to The Fast and Furious movie franchise.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Saw on Toyota's website these come in loaded around $60k...not bad.

Compelling when even 5 yr old Boxster S' are still going for $60-75k.

Will have to test drive at some point. Will need a new ride within 2 yrs

This is what I was gonna say. A clean 997 Carrera is the same price as a brand new, top of the range Supra.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Milan

Honestly you can't really defend this without being a Toyota fan boy. The Supra is no doubt iconic and was for sure ahead of it's time but it's still a Toyota. Go compare a BMW from 1993 and a Toyota from 1993 and tell me which one has better quality of materials, build quality, etc.

I don't see anyone making the argument that the Mclaren F1 isn't a real Mclaren because BMW built the engine.

IMO BMW is the best thing that happened to Toyota. If they built the car it would look like something a sorority girl would drive and make like 200 hp

I agree. When it comes to the actual product the biggest gripe (besides subjective "look") is it's not a full Toyota product, not that the engine, trans, suspension or anything else isn't to the level it needs to be.

Left alone to Toyota, 30 years later we still wouldn't have had a Supra and no, we wouldn't be better off without it. Then, if Toyota for some reason decided to go it alone it it would have been a V-6, no chance as good of an engine, pretty sure not the ZF trans, highly unlikely it would have ever gotten a manual as they wouldn't have had something easily added to their engine.

[freakystyly]

Or.. you know.. the 1.6L 3 cyl engine they seem to be putting in their GR cars with manual transmissions. Which wouldn't be on the same level obviously as the B58 but pretty close, and allow for better handling.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by David70

Left alone to Toyota, 30 years later we still wouldn't have had a Supra and no, we wouldn't be better off without it. Then, if Toyota for some reason decided to go it alone it it would have been a V-6, no chance as good of an engine, pretty sure not the ZF trans, highly unlikely it would have ever gotten a manual as they wouldn't have had something easily added to their engine.

I dunno, if given the opportunity they certainly know how and can build a damn good car beyond spec sheets

[David70]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

Or.. you know.. the 1.6L 3 cyl engine they seem to be putting in their GR cars with manual transmissions. Which wouldn't be on the same level obviously as the B58 but pretty close, and allow for better handling.

I don't see it being "pretty close" -
3 cylinder 1.6L
Power: 300 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 273 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm

I-6 in Supra
Power: 382 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 368 lb-ft @ 1800 rpm

Reality seems to be even worse as the I-6 seems to under rated. Next issue is the well balanced I6 vs the I3

I think the B58 is one of the best all around engines made, the 3 cylinder Toyota isn't anywhere close. It's amazing they got 300 hp out of a 1.6L I3 but a number of I4 engines on the market that look better to me.

[David70]

Originally Posted by kyriian

I dunno, if given the opportunity they certainly know how and can build a damn good car beyond spec sheets

"If given the opportunity" is correct and the problem.

What was the price, how many sold and it took how many years to sell them? Think they will ever do something like this again?

I agree they have the technical ability to make a great car sports car but are too fixated on smart business moves to do something like that again. It also wasn't a great seller as it cost far too much. It's hard to argue from a business standpoint that they should.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't see it being "pretty close" -
3 cylinder 1.6L
Power: 300 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 273 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm

It does slot between the B48 2.0L trim though, which has a 0.4L "advantage". Just shows they are capable of not only producing commuter car level engines.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

It does slot between the B48 2.0L trim though, which has a 0.4L "advantage". Just shows they are capable of not only producing commuter car level engines.

Having driven a gr Corolla
And a previous owner of a GD STi and an Evo 9+10
The Corolla drives like a cross between them both
Lag is ever present and something you'd have to keep in mind
It's got the grip and it's relatively zippy, but I would put that engine against the best 4 cylinders available
The k20c in the CTR is much better
The ubiquitous EA888 is a gem even now
Toyota has one really good engine and it's not in a sports car
It's the Prius drivetrain

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

This is what I was gonna say. A clean 997 Carrera is the same price as a brand new, top of the range Supra.

You got a 997 didn't you?

I just don't want such an old car as it'll be my DD. A low-ish mileage, <5 yr old Boxster S/GTS is my preference.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

You got a 997 didn't you?

I just don't want such an old car as it'll be my DD. A low-ish mileage, <5 yr old Boxster S/GTS is my preference.

That's my point though, a brand spanking new Supra seems reasonable value.

[pikkagtr]

Results are what I expected

Some fan boys maybe butt hurt
Fair warning

[David70]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Results are what I expected

Some fan boys maybe butt hurt
Fair warning

Their estimated 3800 lb. M2 vs the 3300 lb. Supra. Unfortunate that the M2 continues to grow in size/weight. Weight negatively affects all performance categories & adding hp doesn't get rid of this problem. Close to the same weight as the M3?

Not a fan of the new M2 screen, looks like they bolted it to an dash, would have looked better if it had been built into the dash.

Also interesting that they think the Supra has a better manual than the BMW after Toyota made improvements to the BMW manual. Maybe BMW should look into it?

People continue to complain about the Supra pedigree but hard to complain much about the its actual mechanicals/performance/price. We waited almost 30 years for a new Supra, 100% from Toyota & it never happened, likely never would have.

Both put the Supra #1, with one putting the M2 2nd, the other 3rd

[alex2364]

I'm glad Toyota has made a better BMW than BMW. And I wouldn't touch the M2 just because of how ugly it is.

[Alfisti]

I have no skin in the game here but man, gotta say, for the money the Supra appears a good buy if you can live with the cramped quarters.

Why am I buying an M2 if it weighs damn near an M3? Other than the M3 actually managing to be even uglier? Tell you what, a CPO f30 is not a bad looking option. Said it before and will say it again, a 15 year old 997.2 PDK is the same price with about 50,000 miles. Now a 997 is a 997 and the steering is telepathic and the engine naturally aspirated but the ride is harsh and has no mod-cons like the Supra. It's a pretty compelling package if you want a new sports car and TBH I don't see anything but a Cayman feeling more like a sportscar than the Supra.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I have no skin in the game here but man, gotta say, for the money the Supra appears a good buy if you can live with the cramped quarters.

Why am I buying an M2 if it weighs damn near an M3? Other than the M3 actually managing to be even uglier? Tell you what, a CPO f30 is not a bad looking option. Said it before and will say it again, a 15 year old 997.2 PDK is the same price with about 50,000 miles. Now a 997 is a 997 and the steering is telepathic and the engine naturally aspirated but the ride is harsh and has no mod-cons like the Supra. It's a pretty compelling package if you want a new sports car and TBH I don't see anything but a Cayman feeling more like a sportscar than the Supra.

Not touching a 718 Cayman at the Supra price point
If it's not your only car it will work fine
I daily the Supra the first 2 months of ownership and it was doable
Surprised at how much stuff fits in the hatch
I'm not a large fella and at only 5-8 the headroom was perfect

[Alfisti]

Yeah agreed re. Cayman, I meant it's the only "sportier" car I can think of than the Supra below say 100K unless you go underpowered like a Miata. I know a GT stang PP2 or the right Camaro is very capable but they are much larger and heavier.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Not touching a 718 Cayman at the Supra price point
If it's not your only car it will work fine
I daily the Supra the first 2 months of ownership and it was doable
Surprised at how much stuff fits in the hatch
I'm not a large fella and at only 5-8 the headroom was perfect

5-8? Can you reach the pedals? Just breaking balls. I was in one the other day, very small. I’m 6’2