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      11-14-2010, 09:23 AM   #1
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F1 2010 SEASON, final review

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Originally Posted by Javi335 View Post
Congrats to Vettel, i think he deserved the championship more than anybody, a lot of races out for mechanichal problems, he should win it a races ago.

Alonso puts the fight and the faith of no surrender til' all is over. A boring championship without him, dont you?

Sorry for Webber, he has bad luck too
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      11-14-2010, 09:52 AM   #2
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Great to see a new championship for a new driver and new team.

Some might say SV doesn't "deserve" the championship because he's too young, got a great car, and made too much mistakes, and some unlucky mechanical issues.

Champion is champion, there's no such "deserve" or not. At least every single points Vettel had won was fair and square and he fought for it. As he is already the world champion, maturity will grow with his speed and the talent he already has. He will be great and more wins and champions for him to fight.

Alonso had a great momentum at the final races in the season. He had all the advantages and points are on his side when he walked into Abu Dhabi. Then a poor start let Jenson slotted into P3 then a poor pit stop moment got him stuck behind throughout the race. Which he lost just enough points to Vettel.

Webber, seems lost his mojo after Hungary. Probably his negative mentality and constantly qualify slower than Sebastian. Then a DNF in Korea have him dropped out on the Championship lead. I'd say his own mind game cost him the champion.

After the Turkish GP, we don't see a lot of "sparks" from Jenson Button. Who always have problem with the option tires during Q3 session with light fuel load. Cost him a lot track positions even before the race had begun. However, all in all, on his first year in McLaren he has blend in very well. Seems to have a solid and healthy relationship with Lewis.

Personally I do not think Lewis Hamilton was ever a real title contender in 2010. The slow development from McLaren was dragging both driver's back foot. The wins he got this year was an apparent McLaren favor track with their over-rated F-Duct, and both Red Bulls stepping into each other's foot.

We will definitely a strong RBR with Adrian Newey working hard with the new aero regulations (no Double Deck Diffusor, No F-Duct, plus new removable rear wing), plus new unknown of Pirelli. All the other teams, McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, and even Williams and Force India, they all painted a target behind the Red Bull car and shot it down whenever they have a chance.
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      11-14-2010, 03:13 PM   #3
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Although not a SV fan (I'm starting to like the guy), he DID deserve the win. He had the most mechanical DNFs (not his fault at all), and ALL while in P1. He obviously had several more DNFs due to his stupidities, but he was maturing after every race. I was really surprised when he was smiling right after his engine blowout after leading Korea, which would have put him in the championship lead. NOt an easy thing to do mentally. He's a mentally tough guy, and that's not something you learn. And he has learned what he can pretty darn fast. He's like a completely different driver than at the beginning of the season. And definitely the best driver of them all. We all must remember he's only 23.

As far as Alonso, I like him even less now, after his ridiculous behavior with SV. And a win would have sent the wrong message to those with cheater mentality; glad it didn't happen again. Any win due to 'team orders' is an illegitimate win.

And finally I wasn't surprised MS is not the great driver many thought he was. He couldn't even come close to his rookie teammate, with the same damn car. He's done IMO. Many more talented drivers than him. And with the huge car advantage he had in the past gone, he'll be just another driver in the middle of the pack. We'll see for sure next season. By the way, the sucker is lucky to be alive after today's crash; tire cleared his head by a hair. Looking forward to next season. The many changes to be implemented will send every team to the drawing board. Take care gang.
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      11-14-2010, 03:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
And finally I wasn't surprised MS is not the great driver many thought he was. .
He's a 43 man who comes after 4 years off

Alonso is spaniard; vain and coarse. We dont have uncountabless. Maybe because that, he's there.

F*** you haters
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      11-14-2010, 03:24 PM   #5
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He's a 43 man who comes after 4 years off. F*** you haters
If you love him so much, you should at least know he's 41 .

And he was THREE years off, not 4. Hey, may I assume you didn't like math ? It's not an excuse man, and you know it. Maybe the first races, but not all season. And against a rookie. Time to choose a different german driver . Take care.

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      11-14-2010, 03:29 PM   #6
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If you love him so much, you should at least know he's 41 .
Well ... 41 ...

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And what excuse do you have for the guy after being beaten by his rookie teammate every race he didn't have a 'not at fault' DNF? Time to choose a different german driver .
4 years out of the races?
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      11-14-2010, 03:34 PM   #7
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4 years out of the races?
It was 3, BUT he kept being a development driver, so it's not like he didn't drive F1 cars all that time. And that excuse would have held for only a few races, not all season.

It'll be interesting how he does next year. He'll have no more excuses then. We'll see. Take care.
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      11-14-2010, 04:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
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.
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
.
A great way to end the season. I was pretty gutted to see Ferrari lose, but if it had to go to another team, then Red Bull deserve it. Their car was hands down the quickest of the lot, as we saw yet again here at Abu Dhabi.

E90Slam, I kind of agree with you. While a WDC winner is a winner, I DO think some people are more deserving than others. Example: Jacques Villeneuve in '97. How many people would say that Villeneuve is a worthy grand prix winner? Does he deserve to be placed among the likes of title winners from his generation (Schumacher, Hakkinen, Senna)? Is a Champion with a dominating car just as worthy as someone who wins a championship with an inferior car?

Either way, Vettel deserved this title. He was quicker than Mark Webber most of the season, and he had the quickest car. If it were not for some awful luck, this season would have been over by Brazil or earlier. He still has some very rough edges, like overtaking abilities, but this just illustrates how talented he is at such a young age. We could very well be witnessing another Schumacher era in the works, with Christian Horner and Adrian Newey playing the roles of Jon Todt and Ross Brawn, respectively.

Alonso did not lose gracefully (let's face it, he's not the best when it comes to public relations), but that shouldn't put down his accomplishments. Germany regardless, he drove the wheels off that Ferrari throughout this season, and put in some shockingly strong performances; Singapore and Italy in particular come to my mind. In his first season at Ferrari, he managed to get them oh-so-close to a title. I can't wait to see what he brings in '11.

I also disagree regarding Hamilton. He managed to put in some absolutely brilliant races, yet displayed an uncanny propensity for errors towards the end of the season. Think of Spa, where in treacherous conditions he put in a masterful race win. I think on sheer pace and talent, he's at the top of the competition. He just needs to learn to stop making mistakes!

Button was better than I expected, but I had low expectations for him in the first place. Hamilton ultimately outdid Button, and I think we will increasingly see him in the '2nd driver role'. Massa was hugely disappointing, and I wonder what Ferrari will choose to do at this stage. I wonder if he may be removed in 2011, given his lack of pace.

Finally, Schumacher - I think it's extremely harsh to come down on him so negatively. He's 41 - who really thought he was still at the top of his game? To still be kind of competitive at that age is hugely impressive, in my books, and only speaks of how talented he once was. As for 'being outdone by a rookie', Rosberg is hardly a Rookie? He has been in F1 for quite a while now, and would be considered a fairly experienced driver at this stage.

Anywho, great season guys. It was fun watching and commenting with all of you. A bit sad for my poor Tifosi, but a big round of applause for Vettel and Red Bull. It's good to see someone other than McLaren and Ferrari becoming a routine challenger, it will only make next season even more exciting. Cheers
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      11-14-2010, 04:29 PM   #9
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The equality of chances until the lasts races, that was good of this season, will be nice for the next one too. None of the top teams has left the current developement of the car to be focused on the next year. They all has to start again from the begin without any advantage.

The whole season, in a kind of a whole and fast "flashback", exciting. But the races one by one ...
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      11-14-2010, 06:01 PM   #10
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I believe Webber showed in the last race that when his car is no longer miles ahead in terms of pace that he is very much an average driver in the likes of F1. McLaren really brought their car up to par, and Ferrari though on a bit of a back foot was still up held by Alonso during Qualifying. Vettel getting P1 and Webber on P5, there really is no excuse for that since their equipment was the same.
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      11-15-2010, 02:46 PM   #11
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At first I thought 19 races is a long stretch for a season, but ends up 19 races were completed so quickly. As if the bore-fest in Bahrain and things happened throughout the season as if just happened yesterday.

Next year we will have 20 races!!! Seems like a long season, but the season will go by so fast as if the car going 200+ MPH!
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      11-15-2010, 02:55 PM   #12
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Cant wait for Bahrain season opener! lets hope its not a boring one this time..
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      11-15-2010, 02:59 PM   #13
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Cant wait for Bahrain season opener! lets hope its not a boring one this time..
Here's the good news, a while ago on F1 news. That Bahrain Circuit will revert to its original layout for Formula 1 races. The middle twisty miserable section will be omitted.

That means a shorter course with a better rhythm flow.

http://www.bahraingp.com/en/News/Circuit/4186

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ayout-in-2011/
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      11-15-2010, 03:16 PM   #14
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I think that not enough credit has been given to RBR for not issuing team orders. If they had forced Vettel to give way to Webber in the previous race, then Vettel would have lost the championship by 1 point instead of winning by 4 points.

I think most other teams *cough*Ferrari*cough* would have had the driver trailing in points give up the lead. RBR's decision not to do that allowed Vettel to become the champ.
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      11-15-2010, 04:01 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
And definitely the best driver of them all. We all must remember he's only 23.

And finally I wasn't surprised MS is not the great driver many thought he was. He couldn't even come close to his rookie teammate, with the same damn car. He's done IMO.
I don't think it is just my opinion that Vettel is not the best driver. He had the best car by a fair margin and even then barely capitalized on that. Just watch Belgium again, that was not the kind of race from somebody who is the best in the field. That is still a toss up between Hamilton and Alonso. In equal machinery, bets would be on them against any other driver.

And Schumacher still has it. He was away for three years, and came back to a car with understeering tendencies, which is how Button likes his car, not MS. So the car's dynamics were the opposite to his preference, and he has not driven a car in three seasons. I'm not sure what you were talking about with him being a development driver in F1. He developed road cars as well as the FXX, not F1 cars. Testing rules would not allow anybody to drive a current car in race trim. So doing test laps in a two year old car on GP2 tires doesn't exactly count as practice does it? We'll only be able to judge his current skill next season in the W02.

All this aside, congrats to Vettel on becoming F1's youngest ever champion. I'm sure he'll be WDC a few more times in his career. The next step for him is improving his racecraft. The reason I don't put him in the upper echelon of drivers is he hasn't put a drive together where he has had to pass numerous cars to win. When he starts from pole (which is a pretty good bet given his qualifying ability), he's uncatchable given his car doesn't let him down. But anything else and he really can't get it together.
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      11-15-2010, 04:25 PM   #16
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That's a huge piece of the puzzle though. Qualifying is almost more important than the race in many ways and I think a sign of a great driver is one who can race himself. By that I mean that he doesn't need cars around him to judge how fast he needs to be going, he's able to just race himself. The other side of the coin is that he definitely needs to work on passing skills but that all comes with experience. This is his second year in a competitive car and he really dominated (barring the mechanical failures that lost him 3 certain victories. Imagine an extra 75 points!

I also think there is an extraordinary talent in Robert Kubica and I am VERY intrigued (and have been since his first race) by Kobayashi. He's just a fun driver to watch. Kubica is silky smooth and very focused. I'd LOVE to see him in a better machine (or have them develop a better car next year. We saw them make the best F-duct this year and I hope they're a bit more ahead of the curve next year to see what he can really do.
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      11-15-2010, 05:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
The other side of the coin is that he definitely needs to work on passing skills but that all comes with experience. This is his second year in a competitive car and he really dominated (barring the mechanical failures that lost him 3 certain victories. Imagine an extra 75 points!

I also think there is an extraordinary talent in Robert Kubica and I am VERY intrigued (and have been since his first race) by Kobayashi. He's just a fun driver to watch. Kubica is silky smooth and very focused. I'd LOVE to see him in a better machine (or have them develop a better car next year. We saw them make the best F-duct this year and I hope they're a bit more ahead of the curve next year to see what he can really do.
Passing does not come with experience. That's just racing skill. Look at Hamilton and Alonso as prime examples. Hamilton has only been in the sport one year longer than Vettel and look at their racing ability. Hamilton dominates Vettel on all fronts, minus not being in the best car. And the failures only cost him 63. What if Alonso didn't spin at turn 1 in Australia, didn't lose an engine in Malaysia, didn't jump the start in China, didn't crash in P3 in Monaco, didn't get caught behind backmarkers in Canada, didn't lose out to the safety car in Valencia, didn't get a drive thru in Britain, didn't crash in Belgium, and didn't pit early in Abu Dhabi? He would have like... a billion points!

And your point on Kubica is right on. I hope Renault can get their machine up to snuff next year because he truly deserves a drive in a top tier car. I would put him just under Alonso and Hamilton in terms of pure skill, that is racecraft and raw speed.
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      11-15-2010, 09:58 PM   #18
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oh boy, where to start...

here we go:

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
And finally I wasn't surprised MS is not the great driver many thought he was. He couldn't even come close to his rookie teammate, with the same damn car. He's done IMO. Many more talented drivers than him. And with the huge car advantage he had in the past gone, he'll be just another driver in the middle of the pack. We'll see for sure next season. By the way, the sucker is lucky to be alive after today's crash; tire cleared his head by a hair. Looking forward to next season. The many changes to be implemented will send every team to the drawing board. Take care gang.
-So he's not a great driver because of this one season? mmm ok, I guess that cancels out his other seasons since 1991 (when he qualified 7th on his first race in a slower car against the likes of Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, etc in a track he'd never raced in... SPA)... ok, sure, I take it you never saw those races. To the names he raced against and beat, add Hakkinnen, Hill, Villeneuve, Alonso, Raikkonnen, Button, and anybody else you want since 1991.
- Nico Rosberg is not a rookie, he did his first test in 2004 and has been racing full-time since 2006. That's longer than Vettel for instance, just so you know.
- You probably don't know that Schumacher didn't always have the fastest car. Look into his racing in 92-93, 96-98, 05-06... Of specific mention are Spain 96, Monaco 97 (didn't he lap the 3rd place driver?)
- the sucker is lucky to be alive <-- you almost sound like he deserved it

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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
It was 3, BUT he kept being a development driver, so it's not like he didn't drive F1 cars all that time. And that excuse would have held for only a few races, not all season.
It'll be interesting how he does next year. He'll have no more excuses then. We'll see. Take care.
- You probably don't know what his role was at Ferrari; it wasn't test driver. They are not allowed to test. He developed road cars and provided advice. In fact, Schumacher may just be the first driver to retire after so long and come back without any real testing (the more data savvy users are free to correct me, just don't count Mansell when he couldn't even fit in the car). He still came 6th on his first race in over 3 years...
- He struggled after his comeback and more than anything on the slow corners with the undesired car behaviour and the extremely different front tyres. Schumacher likes an oversteery car that he can toss into the bends and control with his mastery over the throttle and steering... today's cars don't behave like they used to. In the fast corners and defending, it was the old Michael again. That was at the beginning... at the end, he had the edge over Nico; since Singapore if I am not mistaken. He even let him pass in Brazil.

Maybe your opinion is that Schumacher is not a great driver. Fair enough, but get your facts straight.
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      11-15-2010, 10:00 PM   #19
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Passing does not come with experience. That's just racing skill. Look at Hamilton and Alonso as prime examples. Hamilton has only been in the sport one year longer than Vettel and look at their racing ability. Hamilton dominates Vettel on all fronts, minus not being in the best car. And the failures only cost him 63. What if Alonso didn't spin at turn 1 in Australia, didn't lose an engine in Malaysia, didn't jump the start in China, didn't crash in P3 in Monaco, didn't get caught behind backmarkers in Canada, didn't lose out to the safety car in Valencia, didn't get a drive thru in Britain, didn't crash in Belgium, and didn't pit early in Abu Dhabi? He would have like... a billion points!
I'm not sure that driving the wheels right off the car falls under "skill" but he's definitely a good driver. I was also impressed with his attitude with Vettel after the race. This is after really starting to loathe him through the first half of the season. Behind Alonso he is the one you hear on the radio whining the most. He's constantly complaining about his car when Button seems to manage just fine. What LH completely lacks in finesse he makes up in passing but you still have to drive within the limits of the equipment which he seems to have a big problem doing. It's funny that you eluded to SV winning the title because of his car while LH was in an equally competitive and certainly more reliable machine and finished 16pts back. How is one luck and happenstance while the other is pure skill?
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      11-16-2010, 12:48 AM   #20
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It's funny that you eluded to SV winning the title because of his car while LH was in an equally competitive and certainly more reliable machine and finished 16pts back.
So you're saying the Red Bull, which was the pole car in 15 of 19 races(this is not taking in to account the races where they started 1-2), is equally competetive to the McLaren, which was on pole at 1 race?

You've got to be kidding me right?
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      11-16-2010, 06:55 AM   #21
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You like Hamilton as a driver and I like Vettel. I don't care to argue any more on the topic.
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      11-17-2010, 02:25 AM   #22
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facts are tough to argue about
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