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      08-25-2019, 04:26 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Hardly. Do you guys actually go to BMW club and track events and talk to people? The manual transmission hasn't become some rare thing amongst enthusiasts at events.
Are you interested in the Z4?
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      08-25-2019, 04:36 PM   #90
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I kind of want BMW to just cancel all of the ICE driven M cars for self- driving EVs to see the amount of whining it would cause. It's going to happen eventually. I'd prefer driving a manual Civic over an M5 with an auto.
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Hardly. Do you guys actually go to BMW club and track events and talk to people? The manual transmission hasn't become some rare thing amongst enthusiasts at events.
I have been a very active BMW CCA member for 39 years and have never come across a member that would rather drive a Civic over an M5 no matter what the transmission was.

Manuals are actually becoming quite rare. I am the only one I know with the current M3/M4 that has a 6MT. In fact many club people have asked me why I got my M4 with a 6MT.
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      08-25-2019, 04:38 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Or underneath basements.
Hardly. Do you guys actually go to BMW club and track events and talk to people? The manual transmission hasn't become some rare thing amongst enthusiasts at events.
This is a Z4 thread. Why has this evolve into a manual vs automatic dog fight?
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      08-25-2019, 05:38 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
This is a Z4 thread. Why has this evolve into a manual vs automatic dog fight?
Unfortunately, the trolls have decided to do that because BMW does not offer a manual in the Z4.
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      08-25-2019, 06:28 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Very disingenuous headline here.

He essentially said the Z4 is more capable at the limits. But otherwise it’s refined to the point of being boring such as in normal day-to-day driving.

M2 is legitimately fun at ANY speed. But like many reviews have said its tail happy.
Has modern enthusiast associates tail happy = fun?

I do like how he prefer the smaller engine for balance though
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      08-25-2019, 07:21 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
This is a Z4 thread. Why has this evolve into a manual vs automatic dog fight?
Because the title of the thread said "better driver's car than M2" on the front page, yet only the M2 is available with a manual, which is a major deciding factor for many in a "driver's car."
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      08-25-2019, 07:28 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I have been a very active BMW CCA member for 39 years and have never come across a member that would rather drive a Civic over an M5 no matter what the transmission was.

Manuals are actually becoming quite rare. I am the only one I know with the current M3/M4 that has a 6MT. In fact many club people have asked me why I got my M4 with a 6MT.
Yeah, I meant BMW club track and other club track events. I certainly see more more autos in the regular club tour events or whatever, and I'm certainly not saying that's a problem. I'm saying that not having the manual as an option makes it difficult for me to say the Z4 is a better "driver's car."
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      08-25-2019, 07:35 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
Are you interested in the Z4?
Not without a manual. My last car was a Cayman, and I've been missing a small two-seater, but no manual took the Z4/Supra off the list.

I'm done mentioning it here. Just had to respond to being called a troll, simply because I mentioned one of the biggest complaints about this car. It's a real complaint from a lot of potential buyers.

Last edited by duder13; 08-25-2019 at 07:42 PM..
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      08-25-2019, 07:46 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Not without a manual. My last car was a Cayman, and I've been missing a small two-seater, but no manual took the Z4/Supra off the list.

I'm done mentioning it here. Just had to respond to being called a troll, simply because I mentioned one of the biggest complaints about this car. It's a real complaint from a lot of potential buyers.
Given BMW has killed off the successor to the Z4 and the overall roadster market has been shrinking for years, it is hard to see a business case for BMW to spend the money on a manual transmission version of the car.

What are you seeing in the marketplace that makes you think that BMW has terribly misread possible sales?
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      08-25-2019, 07:56 PM   #98
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Anybody is free to voice his / her opinion.

I had a blast today driving 3 hrs in my Z4 M40i with ZF 8 and I could care less whatever "Enthusiast" has to say about this car - mostly even without ever driving one!

Enjoy your manuals ... while you can...
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      08-25-2019, 08:30 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Yeah, I meant BMW club track and other club track events. I certainly see more more autos in the regular club tour events or whatever, and I'm certainly not saying that's a problem. I'm saying that not having the manual as an option makes it difficult for me to say the Z4 is a better "driver's car."
By active club member, I was including HPDEs and autocrosses.
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      08-25-2019, 08:35 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
I kind of want BMW to just cancel all of the ICE driven M cars for self- driving EVs to see the amount of whining it would cause. It's going to happen eventually. I'd prefer driving a manual Civic over an M5 with an auto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Hardly. Do you guys actually go to BMW club and track events and talk to people? The manual transmission hasn't become some rare thing amongst enthusiasts at events.
I have been a very active BMW CCA member for 39 years and have never come across a member that would rather drive a Civic over an M5 no matter what the transmission was.

Manuals are actually becoming quite rare. I am the only one I know with the current M3/M4 that has a 6MT. In fact many club people have asked me why I got my M4 with a 6MT.
My daily is a 2017 530i msport and the e39 m5 has been at the top of my list for a while so I'd say I've always had a liking for the 5 series.

Ive driven the f90 m5 a few times and it bored the hell out of me. My coworker has a civic SI and I genuinely would take the civic si or a brz over the f90 m5. I don't particularly care how fast the car is, I care about driver involvement and the m5 hasn't offered that since the e60 was retired. In the current BMW lineup, I really like the m2c and m850i. I haven't tried the z4 yet, but I'd love to give it a shot. It looks great in person.
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      08-25-2019, 09:59 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddeacon View Post
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Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
He's got it spot on, BMW layers their cars better than others. People say Porsche makes better drivers cars and maybe they are slightly but they don't have the luxury or utility layered into them
What do you mean by this? My Boxster has two trunks, my M roadster had one. My Boxster has a lot of tech, my M Roadster had none. Both are fantastic driver's cars but the Porsche definitely doesn't lack luxury or utility comparably. Now X3 definitely adds utility over the Boxster so I'll give you that, but so would a Macan.
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Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
He's got it spot on, BMW layers their cars better than others. People say Porsche makes better drivers cars and maybe they are slightly but they don't have the luxury or utility layered into them
What do you mean by this? My Boxster has two trunks, my M roadster had one. My Boxster has a lot of tech, my M Roadster had none. Both are fantastic driver's cars but the Porsche definitely doesn't lack luxury or utility comparably. Now X3 definitely adds utility over the Boxster so I'll give you that, but so would a Macan.
They don't have a 2 or 3 series where you have a useable back seat and nice sized trunk. Boxster , 911, and cayman trunk are small and only 911 has very small back seats
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      08-25-2019, 10:52 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Very disingenuous headline here.

He essentially said the Z4 is more capable at the limits. But otherwise it's refined to the point of being boring such as in normal day-to-day driving.

M2 is legitimately fun at ANY speed. But like many reviews have said its tail happy.
I absolutely love a tail happy car.

Probably the thing I like most about the M2 is the ease to bring it back in line with very little effort.
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      08-25-2019, 11:25 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by frank.m2 View Post
IMO an auto transmission only car does not fit the definition of a drivers car.

It can shift fast, get to 60 quick and save you from traffic sure but it won't ever be a "drivers car".
Whatever...I'm a driver and I like to drive cars with paddle shifters. Allows me to get more out of the car than a manual. It's okay if you like to shift gears, doesn't mean manuals are drivers cars.
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      08-26-2019, 07:00 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by frank.m2 View Post
IMO an auto transmission only car does not fit the definition of a drivers car.

It can shift fast, get to 60 quick and save you from traffic sure but it won't ever be a "drivers car".
^ Complete nonsense - I don't see that at all.
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      08-26-2019, 07:05 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by ssquared View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
I kind of want BMW to just cancel all of the ICE driven M cars for self- driving EVs to see the amount of whining it would cause. It's going to happen eventually. I'd prefer driving a manual Civic over an M5 with an auto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Hardly. Do you guys actually go to BMW club and track events and talk to people? The manual transmission hasn't become some rare thing amongst enthusiasts at events.
I have been a very active BMW CCA member for 39 years and have never come across a member that would rather drive a Civic over an M5 no matter what the transmission was.

Manuals are actually becoming quite rare. I am the only one I know with the current M3/M4 that has a 6MT. In fact many club people have asked me why I got my M4 with a 6MT.
My daily is a 2017 530i msport and the e39 m5 has been at the top of my list for a while so I'd say I've always had a liking for the 5 series.

Ive driven the f90 m5 a few times and it bored the hell out of me. My coworker has a civic SI and I genuinely would take the civic si or a brz over the f90 m5. I don't particularly care how fast the car is, I care about driver involvement and the m5 hasn't offered that since the e60 was retired. In the current BMW lineup, I really like the m2c and m850i. I haven't tried the z4 yet, but I'd love to give it a shot. It looks great in person.
The 5 today is like 7 of yesterday and they have tune it that way accordingly if you ask me.

If given the chance again I would probably wait a year then get 2020 g20 340 instead of my 2019 g30 540 (assuming wife didn't find 340 being obnoxiously loud and fitting chair seat in the back doesn't compromise front seat leg room...)
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      08-26-2019, 10:01 AM   #106
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I've had two ZF8's; one in my V8 Jaguar F type and now the Z4 M40i - I love 'em both and I have had dozens of manual transmission vehicles (still have three). Negative comments about the ZF are almost 100% from those that are simply mad about the lack of a manual. The ZF has been almost universally lauded by testers and journalists and is a great transmission. I drove several Porsche PDK's and found the ZF to be almost identical in performance but without the low speed "clunkiness" I found in the PDK. A good read: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

As far as the rest; yes the BMW faithful is mad that the Z4 has been compared favorably to the M2 - even by BMW. I find it humorous that a four seat sedan is considered by some to be a better sports car than a 2 seat roadster.... weird.


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      08-26-2019, 10:04 AM   #107
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Not a driver's car, I guess;

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      08-26-2019, 10:07 AM   #108
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Not a driver's car, I guess;

Dave
It's no Civic.
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      08-26-2019, 12:40 PM   #109
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
Not a driver's car, I guess;

Dave
It's no Civic.
But, but the Civic has 3 pedulhs!!!
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      08-26-2019, 03:20 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddeacon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
He's got it spot on, BMW layers their cars better than others. People say Porsche makes better drivers cars and maybe they are slightly but they don't have the luxury or utility layered into them
What do you mean by this? My Boxster has two trunks, my M roadster had one. My Boxster has a lot of tech, my M Roadster had none. Both are fantastic driver's cars but the Porsche definitely doesn't lack luxury or utility comparably. Now X3 definitely adds utility over the Boxster so I'll give you that, but so would a Macan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddeacon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
He's got it spot on, BMW layers their cars better than others. People say Porsche makes better drivers cars and maybe they are slightly but they don't have the luxury or utility layered into them
What do you mean by this? My Boxster has two trunks, my M roadster had one. My Boxster has a lot of tech, my M Roadster had none. Both are fantastic driver's cars but the Porsche definitely doesn't lack luxury or utility comparably. Now X3 definitely adds utility over the Boxster so I'll give you that, but so would a Macan.
They don't have a 2 or 3 series where you have a useable back seat and nice sized trunk. Boxster , 911, and cayman trunk are small and only 911 has very small back seats
Gotcha. In general Porsche makes sports cars that can be luxurious and BMW makes luxury cars that can be sporty in particular variants (M and M performance). If Porsche made a luxury sedan, I wouldn't buy it. I own both brands and totally agree with that. As for utility, that is completely dependent on the model. A Z4 is no more capable for utility than a Boxster and a Cayenne no more than an X5. Regarding additional models, we'll that is what Volkswagen and Audi are for I suppose.
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