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      Today, 09:01 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'm not politically predisposed to anything. I am predisposed to logic.

I certainly agree his a narcissist, but so are other past presidents and most of the candidates in the 2020 election cycle. Just for example, Obama said in a speech 5 days before the 2008 election that his presidency was going to be the start of healing the planet and slowing the rise of the oceans. If that's not narcissistic, then good Lord what is the definition?

You say he is not intelligent and is impulsive, yet he has his name all over the world on buildings and golf courses and has a quite sizeable real estate portfolio worth multiple billions. I'll take that as evidence he has some upped level of intelligence and is not impulsive, since being stupid and being impulsive usually doesn't garner that level of success. If you want to say someone else in his organization rather than him achieved such success, then that pretty much shoots your narcissist theory to hell.

As I've stated many times before, I really don't like his persona. He appears childish to me with the stupid twitter account. And he appears to be difficult to work for. He'd not be the first president in that realm either.

My definition of mental instability is thinking humans can spend sixteen trillion dollars on preventing climate change and "saving the planet". It's not scientifically possible.
I totally hear you on the predisposition to logic. That's where human nature and our brains really mess with us. All those illogical, irrational, straight up bat-shit crazy positions that you see folks on the Left take, well to them they are completely and totally logical. It's why we get into this circular pattern of the Right pointing to the Left and saying "how can you guys not see how completely, mentally, ill they are?" While the Left looks at the Right and says the same thing. I wish I had taken a few phycology classes in college as this phenomena actually really fascinates me. Anyway, not saying you're nuts or I'm nuts. Just saying we each base positions on what's logical to us but that "logic" is not necessarily a fixed point. Case in point, I've approached some positions on this forum from what I thought was a rock solid position of logic, only to have another member give me a different perspective that served to shift my opinion. My base of knowledge changed and therefore what I found logical shifted.

Off to work, have a great day and thanks for the conversation this weekend.
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      Today, 09:04 AM   #574
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      Today, 09:09 AM   #575
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I totally hear you on the predisposition to logic. That's where human nature and our brains really mess with us. All those illogical, irrational, straight up bat-shit crazy positions that you see folks on the Left take, well to them they are completely and totally logical. It's why we get into this circular pattern of the Right pointing to the Left and saying "how can you guys not see how completely, mentally, ill they are?" While the Left looks at the Right and says the same thing. I wish I had taken a few phycology classes in college as this phenomena actually really fascinates me. Anyway, not saying you're nuts or I'm nuts. Just saying we each base positions on what's logical to us but that "logic" is not necessarily a fixed point. Case in point, I've approached some positions on this forum from what I thought was a rock solid position of logic, only to have another member give me a different perspective that served to shift my opinion. My base of knowledge changed and therefore what I found logical shifted.

Off to work, have a great day and thanks for the conversation this weekend.
And you win the internet today. It blows my mind how some people refuse to actually discuss and listen to others perspectives and are so closed minded. I'm all ears if you can make a fair argument.
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      Today, 09:30 AM   #576
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Originally Posted by cmyx6go View Post
And you win the internet today. It blows my mind how some people refuse to actually discuss and listen to others perspectives and are so closed minded. I'm all ears if you can make a fair argument.
I have long thought that one of the perils of faceless interactions (aka, social media, forums, etc.) is the echo chamber and inability to exhibit empathy. When people interact face to face I think it becomes apparent that most of us agree on a lot of things, or at least can see where the other side comes from.

We see the lack thereof and demonization on this forum, and many others, unfortunately.
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      Today, 11:15 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
I have long thought that one of the perils of faceless interactions (aka, social media, forums, etc.) is the echo chamber and inability to exhibit empathy. When people interact face to face I think it becomes apparent that most of us agree on a lot of things, or at least can see where the other side comes from.

We see the lack thereof and demonization on this forum, and many others, unfortunately.
I call it keyboard courage. A childhood friend of mine that was always very polite in person has gone off the deep end on FB. He is so nasty and derogatory towards anyone who doesn't agree with him. He would never have the balls to be so rude and nasty in person.
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      Today, 11:33 AM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
I totally hear you on the predisposition to logic. That's where human nature and our brains really mess with us. All those illogical, irrational, straight up bat-shit crazy positions that you see folks on the Left take, well to them they are completely and totally logical. It's why we get into this circular pattern of the Right pointing to the Left and saying "how can you guys not see how completely, mentally, ill they are?" While the Left looks at the Right and says the same thing. I wish I had taken a few phycology classes in college as this phenomena actually really fascinates me. Anyway, not saying you're nuts or I'm nuts. Just saying we each base positions on what's logical to us but that "logic" is not necessarily a fixed point. Case in point, I've approached some positions on this forum from what I thought was a rock solid position of logic, only to have another member give me a different perspective that served to shift my opinion. My base of knowledge changed and therefore what I found logical shifted.

Off to work, have a great day and thanks for the conversation this weekend.
Good post. But there are absolutes however, to deal with. Socialism and Communism are not based on natural human traits. Socialism and Communism HAVE TO BE forced on people to act underneath the system of government and economics. Natural human trait is not to work hard and let other people confiscate the efforts of your labor. Hell, even dogs are possessive. Feed two dogs at the same time and if one finishes first and tries to eat the other dog's food... wait for the fight to begin.

Natural human trait IS market economics. Free market economics do not require force to take affect in a society. Humans naturally trade by the barter system, which requires negotiation and agreement between people. Government that keeps law and order helps the barter system function. What Bernie is proposing is a complete pivot to an unnatural human state. When Socialism or Communism gets forced on people, that's when the killing starts. It is not necessary to kill people to instill Capitalism.

Yes, not everyone prospers under Capitalism, but the vast majority do. The vast majority suffer greatly under socialism/communism. Of the many people I have met that immigrated to the US have not come from a free market economic system. Everyone I have met escaped either from Soviet Russia, Ukraine, Vietnam, or Korea. The people sneaking over the US southern border are not leaving free-market societies.

This is why I can't simply agree to disagree.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; Today at 11:52 AM..
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      Today, 11:34 AM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyx6go View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
I have long thought that one of the perils of faceless interactions (aka, social media, forums, etc.) is the echo chamber and inability to exhibit empathy. When people interact face to face I think it becomes apparent that most of us agree on a lot of things, or at least can see where the other side comes from.

We see the lack thereof and demonization on this forum, and many others, unfortunately.
I call it keyboard courage. A childhood friend of mine that was always very polite in person has gone off the deep end on FB. He is so nasty and derogatory towards anyone who doesn't agree with him. He would never have the balls to be so rude and nasty in person.
There are a few of those around here.
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      Today, 11:51 AM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyx6go View Post
I call it keyboard courage. A childhood friend of mine that was always very polite in person has gone off the deep end on FB. He is so nasty and derogatory towards anyone who doesn't agree with him. He would never have the balls to be so rude and nasty in person.
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Originally Posted by Nuckle View Post
There are a few of those around here.
Indeed.
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      Today, 12:34 PM   #581
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      Today, 12:39 PM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyx6go View Post
I call it keyboard courage. A childhood friend of mine that was always very polite in person has gone off the deep end on FB. He is so nasty and derogatory towards anyone who doesn't agree with him. He would never have the balls to be so rude and nasty in person.
^^
This.

With the physical safety of online interactions, people feel free to exercise - or maybe exorcise - their basest urges and most aggressive postures. Interacting face-to-face has civility built in, since there's always the possibility of getting your nose moved around to the side of your head if you violate the contract of civil discourse.
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      Today, 12:53 PM   #583
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That one made me laugh, MK
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      Today, 12:58 PM   #584
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The Dims have got to throw the Michelle Obama Hail Mary at this point. She’s the only one who can save the Dimocrat party and potentially America from this communist piece of shit. Broker her in there at the convention then she landslide wins in 2020.
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      Today, 01:00 PM   #585
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I think they secretly love trump and are helping him win
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      Today, 01:05 PM   #586
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A decent read this morning in the WSJ....

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sanders...=hp_opin_pos_2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanders Isn’t Trump’s Challenger So Much as His Sequel
We’ve seen this movie before, but for some reason the critics seem convinced it will have a different ending this time: A bombastic septuagenarian political outsider calls out a rigged system to the cheering masses. He finishes second in Iowa and first in New Hampshire and Nevada. He leads all the national polls while the establishment candidates wage all-out war on one another. Meanwhile, the media dismisses his chances and an increasingly worried political establishment convinces itself it’s only a fluke, that the worst case is a chaotic convention that ultimately nominates a mainstream candidate.

You’d think we political types would know better by now. The most important thing I learned managing Sen. Marco Rubio’s 2016 presidential race was that the old political norms were dead. Experts and pundits’ predictions were often no more than guesses based on the way things used to be. Media groupthink only made these outdated and misguided notions more stubborn.

Am I the only one who was embarrassed enough at missing the 2016 political movement that elected Donald Trump that I rethought my approach to modern politics?

Like Mr. Trump, Sen. Bernie Sanders is leading an insurgent campaign, riding a nationwide wave of discontent as many Democrats no longer think the party represents them. He inspires the most radical and disenfranchised members of his party. Yet he still manages to expand his support among more-moderate voters, even though they disagree with some of his extreme positions. It’s exactly his passionate willingness to defend the crazy things he says that draws broad support. If I had a dollar for every voter I’ve heard say, “I don’t agree with everything Donald Trump says, but I like that he has the guts to say it,” I could buy Trump Tower. Mr. Sanders is benefiting from that same sentiment.

It isn’t policy positions that draw voters to Messrs. Sanders and Trump. It’s their perceived authenticity. At a time when almost no person or institution is above reproach, the electorate craves someone who tells it like it is. From government to churches and from universities to Wall Street, many Americans feel let down and lied to. You can’t even trust baseball anymore. So listening to someone give you the raw, unvarnished truth is very appealing.

This pattern plays out in other elections too. While the establishment politicos of both parties remain convinced that the country if fixated on issues, it’s actually fixated on personalities. That’s why Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Dan Crenshaw are so popular. Put Ilhan Omar and Matt Gaetz into that bucket, too. These rising political stars have developed reputations for speaking truth to power and sticking it to the establishment. Americans in 2020 eat that up.In Mr. Trump, the man and the political moment were perfectly timed. Could this be Mr. Sanders’s year to pull off the same trick? The three-term Vermont senator has always styled himself a socialist revolutionary. His cutting rhetoric has alienated him from the party establishment and media. He doesn’t mince words about “millionaires and billionaires,” who he claims have weaponized their wealth against everyday citizens. Their goal, he says, “is not to strengthen the middle class, but continue the trend in which the rich are getting richer at the expense of everyone else.”

That’s debatable, but it reveals Mr. Sanders’s fundamental strategy: He isolates his target group, demonizes it, and relentlessly attacks. Sound familiar? Replace billionaires with illegal immigrants and throw in a huge helping of the “mainstream media is unfair to me,” and you have a perfect match. Mr. Sanders is exploiting the same sentiments that Mr. Trump rode to the presidency on in 2016.

If Mr. Sanders’s momentum continues, he may topple Joe Biden in South Carolina, where the two are now tied. If that happens, it’s hard to see how Mr. Sanders doesn’t end up winning the nomination. He leads by double digits in the most recent national poll and is surging in other state polls.

The funniest part of this blockbuster sequel may be that if Mr. Sanders does win the nomination, those same pundits and politicos will swear he can never win in November. I learned enough from 2016 not to make a definitive political prediction this far out about the final outcome. Maybe we’re watching “Groundhog Day.”
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      Today, 01:07 PM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Good post. But there are absolutes however, to deal with. Socialism and Communism are not based on natural human traits. Socialism and Communism HAVE TO BE forced on people to act underneath the system of government and economics. Natural human trait is not to work hard and let other people confiscate the efforts of your labor. Hell, even dogs are possessive. Feed two dogs at the same time and if one finishes first and tries to eat the other dog's food... wait for the fight to begin.

Natural human trait IS market economics. Free market economics do not require force to take affect in a society. Humans naturally trade by the barter system, which requires negotiation and agreement between people. Government that keeps law and order helps the barter system function. What Bernie is proposing is a complete pivot to an unnatural human state. When Socialism or Communism gets forced on people, that's when the killing starts. It is not necessary to kill people to instill Capitalism.

Yes, not everyone prospers under Capitalism, but the vast majority do. The vast majority suffer greatly under socialism/communism. Of the many people I have met that immigrated to the US have not come from a free market economic system. Everyone I have met escaped either from Soviet Russia, Ukraine, Vietnam, or Korea. The people sneaking over the US southern border are not leaving free-market societies.

This is why I can't simply agree to disagree.
Great points. The reason collectivism hasn't ever worked, and won't ever work, is that it attempts to contradict human nature.

People bring their culture wherever they go. Immigrants from south of the border are coming from countries with a significantly higher accepted/expected level of corruption. It would be completely naive (or willfully deceitful) to suggest that this isn't having a lasting effect on the places they're migrating to.
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      Today, 01:27 PM   #588
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Great points. The reason collectivism hasn't ever worked, and won't ever work, is that it attempts to contradict human nature.

People bring their culture wherever they go. Immigrants from south of the border are coming from countries with a significantly higher accepted/expected level of corruption. It would be completely naive (or willfully deceitful) to suggest that this isn't having a lasting effect on the places they're migrating to.
Collectivism never works because it accomplish via force and people don't like being force to do things against their own will especially by the public.
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