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      04-02-2015, 10:05 AM   #45
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and no info has been passed so far, as far we all know

But NK is such an isolated country and does not share religious identity with rebel groups in SK or any other surrounding countries, so it's not a fair comparison to Iran. Plus, such as it is, the NK government is relatively stable in terms of it's leadership, even if the Kims are so whacked. There are no roaming bands of NK fanatics taking over SK.
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      04-02-2015, 01:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Yes and in that time frame Israel has acted like the spoilt brat of the middle east.
avoiding any peace negotiations, meanwhile they are building apartments on land the entire world (except the US probably) agrees does NOT belong to them.
Israel is confident that no country around them is a threat, BECAUSE of their nuclear weapons.
If you're the only one around with a gun, you will very likely be cocky and arrogant, which is what Israel is today.



If Israel had agreed to a 2 state solution a long time ago, they would not be in the situation they are in now.
There is no longer a struggle for survival
there was in the 60's and 70s
but now with the full backing of the US (irrespective of if it's a democrat or republican in power) there is no threat to Israel.
their biggest threats were Egypt and Iraq
Egypt has a peace treaty with them now
and Iraq has been totally destroyed by the US




I personally don't think Iran would pass off info related to nuclear weapons to hammas or any such entity.
I guess we agree to disagree on this one
People said the same thing about north korea
and no info has been passed so far, as far we all know


I haven't read a lot, but I know a little bit about that area of the world
there is a huge difference between arming rebels or trying to overthrow governments, and arming these rebels with nuclear weapons.
giving them funding and rifles
It sounds like you are more concerned about Israel and its supposed arrogance than you are about allowing a theocratic regime, and known sponsor of terrorism, having access to nuclear weapons....which I guess is typical for people of a certain cloth.

Let it be known, that Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, among others in the Middle East, are very much united in their opposition to a nuclear Iran...and that is despite their great cultural/religious differences.
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      04-02-2015, 01:49 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
It sounds like you are more concerned about Israel and its supposed arrogance than you are about allowing a theocratic regime, and known sponsor of terrorism, having access to nuclear weapons....which I guess is typical for people of a certain cloth.

Let it be known, that Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, UAE, among others in the Middle East, are very much united in their opposition to a nuclear Iran...and that is despite their great cultural/religious differences.
well I did start out by saying I was not opposed to iran having nuclear balance because it would create a balance in the middle east
where no such balance exists today, because of Israel being the sole nuclear country.

Most, if not all of those countries are opposed to iran having weapons because of the sunni/split
all of those countries are sunni
iran is shia
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      04-02-2015, 05:36 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Yes and in that time frame Israel has acted like the spoilt brat of the middle east.
avoiding any peace negotiations, meanwhile they are building apartments on land the entire world (except the US probably) agrees does NOT belong to them.
Israel is confident that no country around them is a threat, BECAUSE of their nuclear weapons.
If you're the only one around with a gun, you will very likely be cocky and arrogant, which is what Israel is today.



If Israel had agreed to a 2 state solution a long time ago, they would not be in the situation they are in now.
There is no longer a struggle for survival
there was in the 60's and 70s
but now with the full backing of the US (irrespective of if it's a democrat or republican in power) there is no threat to Israel.
their biggest threats were Egypt and Iraq
Egypt has a peace treaty with them now
and Iraq has been totally destroyed by the US




I personally don't think Iran would pass off info related to nuclear weapons to hammas or any such entity.
I guess we agree to disagree on this one
People said the same thing about north korea
and no info has been passed so far, as far we all know


I haven't read a lot, but I know a little bit about that area of the world
there is a huge difference between arming rebels or trying to overthrow governments, and arming these rebels with nuclear weapons.
giving them funding and rifles
1.) Israel won that land fair and square. Last I checked Israel was the one getting attacked from all fronts yet still defeated their enemy. That "land that doesn't belong to them" was the spoils of war. Why don't we give back Texas to Mexico while we're at it.

2.) Israel has agreed to countless proposals for a 2 state solution yet the Palestinians always seem to decline it no matter how much land they get. Heck, at one point the proposal was for 99% of what they were asking for!
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      04-02-2015, 06:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
well I did start out by saying I was not opposed to iran having nuclear balance because it would create a balance in the middle east
where no such balance exists today, because of Israel being the sole nuclear country.

Most, if not all of those countries are opposed to iran having weapons because of the sunni/split
all of those countries are sunni

iran is shia
So the obvious retort to this is: if you acknowledge there is a great cultural/religious split between Iran and most of the Arab world, then what "balance" is created by allowing Iran to have nukes?

You seem to be advocating the nuclear armament of one faction, knowing full well that many other opposing factions will be agitated and will try to follow suite...also known as an arms race....arguably in the most volatile region of the world.

That world vision of yours is just oozing with "balance."
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      04-03-2015, 12:06 AM   #50
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Until there is a massive regime change in Iran from the current one, which supplied EFPs and training to insurgents in Iraq, Iran is already a major security threat. Only a fool thinks it's in America's or its allies interests for Iran to be nuclear armed. Last time I checked the President of the USA and his cabinet were supposed to negotiate to further our interests, but then again our SoS is the same guy that tried to negotiate as a private citizen a deal with North Vietnam to further their interests.
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      04-16-2015, 10:57 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by bkM3 View Post
1.) Israel won that land fair and square. Last I checked Israel was the one getting attacked from all fronts yet still defeated their enemy. That "land that doesn't belong to them" was the spoils of war. Why don't we give back Texas to Mexico while we're at it.

2.) Israel has agreed to countless proposals for a 2 state solution yet the Palestinians always seem to decline it no matter how much land they get. Heck, at one point the proposal was for 99% of what they were asking for!
Iraq had also won the land of Kuwait fair and square too by the same logic no?
and the world went ape shit when that happened
Russia is wining land in Ukraine as we speak
is that ok too?

when the international community ALL agree on something (with the exception of USA, naturally) there must be some logic to it.
the international community all agree this land is occupied and must be given back. which is why Israel has issues now exporting products manufactured in these lands.

Israel has proposed a 2 state solution
but with terms so outrageous, simply to say
hey we offered and they said no.
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      04-16-2015, 05:46 PM   #52
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      04-17-2015, 03:30 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Iraq had also won the land of Kuwait fair and square too by the same logic no?
and the world went ape shit when that happened
Russia is wining land in Ukraine as we speak
is that ok too?

when the international community ALL agree on something (with the exception of USA, naturally) there must be some logic to it.
the international community all agree this land is occupied and must be given back. which is why Israel has issues now exporting products manufactured in these lands.

Israel has proposed a 2 state solution
but with terms so outrageous, simply to say
hey we offered and they said no.
When the USSR was formed much of the world community was promoting how great the Communist form of government was, meanwhile the Communist government was STARVING MILLIONS of it's own people. So what the "World Community" likes means jack $***.

Now please tell me why a regime that supplied material, training, and manpower against soldiers in Iraq should be treated as anything but our enemy. As a former Army Infantryman I find it really hard to believe there is a justifiable reason that ANY American could be SO EXTREMELY PRO IRAN that our Nation should just discount Iran's actions in the recent past.

You obviously can't fathom that the JOB of the US Government is to act in the best interest of the AMERICAN people. Islamic extremists, which Iran is run by, running rough shod over our Government is definitely not acting in our countries best interests. Then again judging by your posts I think you're engaging in taqiya.

Last edited by Acertx; 04-17-2015 at 03:33 AM.. Reason: Spelling
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      04-17-2015, 08:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acertx View Post
...

You obviously can't fathom that the JOB of the US Government is to act in the best interest of the AMERICAN people. Islamic extremists, which Iran is run by, running rough shod over our Government is definitely not acting in our countries best interests. Then again judging by your posts I think you're engaging in taqiya.
If this argument is extrapolated, you're against our relationship with Saudi Arabia as well. Is this correct?
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      04-17-2015, 10:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal235 View Post
If this argument is extrapolated, you're against our relationship with Saudi Arabia as well. Is this correct?
saudi arabia isnt run by a government that has openly stated they want to destroy america
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      04-18-2015, 06:35 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal235 View Post
If this argument is extrapolated, you're against our relationship with Saudi Arabia as well. Is this correct?
Iran supplied training on building EFPs, supplied built EFPs, and supplied material to build EFPs to insurgents in Iraq. They also supplied other training and resources to insurgents in Iraq and various terrorist groups. American soldiers died as a direct result of these activities. So you can present your argument on Saudi Arabia if you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that the current Iranian government has committed acts of war against us already. Arguing that we should remove restrictions on Iran that prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons is illogical from an American citizen's perspective. From the Iranian perspective nuclear weapons are necessary to, as bkM3 already pointed out, destroy America.
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      04-20-2015, 06:58 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Fucks given about Israel: 0
Fucks given about the fact that 'You give 0 Fucks about Israel': 0

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      04-20-2015, 08:13 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
Fucks given about the fact that 'You give 0 Fucks about Israel': 0

As an American, I don't want any of our citizens giving their life for him or his country.
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      04-21-2015, 07:33 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
As an American, I don't want any of our citizens giving their life for him or his country.
The only American citizens that I know of who are putting their lives on the line for Israel are those few Jewish Americans who have chosen, of their own free will, to serve in the Israeli military.

So I think you can rest assured.
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      04-21-2015, 12:11 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
The only American citizens that I know of who are putting their lives on the line for Israel are those few Jewish Americans who have chosen, of their own free will, to serve in the Israeli military.

So I think you can rest assured.
Good, and that's how it should be.
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      04-21-2015, 12:17 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
As an American, I don't want any of our citizens giving their life for him or his country.
i agree but do you honestly think that if iran gets nukes they wont try to attack us? like it or not, israel is our first line of defense and our biggest ally against these psychos.
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      04-21-2015, 12:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by bkM3 View Post
i agree but do you honestly think that if iran gets nukes they wont try to attack us? like it or not, israel is our first line of defense and our biggest ally against these psychos.
No, Iran's (and most of the ME) angst towards the US is because of our unwavering support of Israel. Israel has/is using the US as a means to push their own agenda, and I'm NOT ok with that.
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      04-21-2015, 12:49 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
No, Iran's (and most of the ME) angst towards the US is because of our unwavering support of Israel. Israel has/is using the US as a means to push their own agenda, and I'm NOT ok with that.
come on man, you cant seriously believe that. those nutbags hate everybody that doesnt agree with them. and most of the ME does not have angst against the US, notice how its only the countries that are run by radical extremists ? we dont really have any beef with saudi arabia, egypt, UAE
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      04-21-2015, 12:52 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by bkM3 View Post
come on man, you cant seriously believe that. those nutbags hate everybody that doesnt agree with them. and most of the ME does not have angst against the US, notice how its only the countries that are run by radical extremists ? we dont really have any beef with saudi arabia, egypt, UAE
You know, Iran wasn't always that way.
And how much of that do you think is saber rattling/trash talking? From what we know, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons technology and they are a long ways off.
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      04-21-2015, 01:33 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
You know, Iran wasn't always that way.
And how much of that do you think is saber rattling/trash talking? From what we know, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons technology and they are a long ways off.
no they weren't always like that, but they are now.

lets say they are a long way of (which i dont think they are), would you want to make it easier for them to get it? if somebody is openly stating that they want to murder you and your family are you going to give them the gun?
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      04-21-2015, 01:35 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
No, Iran's (and most of the ME) angst towards the US is because of our unwavering support of Israel. Israel has/is using the US as a means to push their own agenda, and I'm NOT ok with that.
So when we were in Iraq taking out Iran's former enemy, Iran according to you was cool with it since they didn't like Saddam either? What part of Iran helped kill American Soldiers in Iraq do you not understand? They want you dead because you are American. Cold hard truth, but it is the truth.
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