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      08-29-2015, 11:04 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
I'm with you on a few points.

Decriminalize marajuna to make a plethora of space in our prisons and throw the effing book at violent offenders.

Make a lack of responsible gun ownership punishable with fines and if too many offenses are made by one person, revoke their right to purchase or own firearms. Hopefully this will prompt people to properly store their guns.

But curbing violence is the answer. Education is the answer. Punishing millions of law abiding citizens for the actions of a few is not the answer.
Decrimializing marijuana would have virtually no impact on prison populations. No one goes to prison for marijuana possession - people are in prison for major trafficking, and/or they pled other offenses down to marijuana possession.
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      08-29-2015, 12:09 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
I lived in the USA since 1991 and I still do not understand the American obsession with guns.
Our country was basically founded with the right to possess a weapon....today, I maintain a legal right to own a variety of personal firearms.

IMHO - you should have issue with the tracking and prosecution of people that possess and use weapons illegally....not with responsible gun owners.
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      08-29-2015, 12:28 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Our country was basically founded with the right to possess a weapon....today, I maintain a legal right to own a variety of personal firearms.

IMHO - you should have issue with the tracking and prosecution of people that possess and use weapons illegally....not with responsible gun owners.
Again, many countries were based on principles that changed over time. I will never understand the gun obsession here now (did make sense long time ago) or electoral college vote that made sense a century ago...
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      08-29-2015, 01:13 PM   #268
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Here comes another one - Harris Co TX deputy EXECUTED at a gas station today.
Becoming a daily norm in the good ole US of A.
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      08-29-2015, 01:29 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Why on earth is it so difficult for some to admit there is a problem with gun violence and something has to be done about it?
Because its simple, the phrase "gun violence" it itself is meaningless. A gun cant be violent anymore than a knife, a car, a bomb etc. A person can be violent, and a person can choose to use a gun, a knife, a car, a bomb or multiple other devices at which to satisfy their desires, but the object itself cannot do anything. By focusing on the tool used, you arent fixing the PROBLEM, which is the person behind it. If a guy wants to kill you, or someone else, and its really that big of a deal, hes going to do it. In addition, how do you enforce banning something to a criminal? You can take away the rights of law abiding citizens because they abide by the law, what about all those who dont obey the laws? How would making firearms illegal stop them when obviously making murder illegal didnt. Would they choose to abide by just firearms laws when murdering people?

Regardless of what millions of ideas you have, it all comes back to FIX THE PROBLEM, DONT BLAME THE TOOL USED.

And No matter how hard I try, I cant seem to get gun haters to understand more laws ONLY STOP LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, NOT CRIMINALS.
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      08-29-2015, 01:30 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
Here comes another one - Harris Co TX deputy EXECUTED at a gas station today.
Becoming a daily norm in the good ole US of A.
If he was stabbed to death, would you show the same concern? Or are you only concerned because a firearm was used? What if someone ran him over to get out of a ticket? Why is it hundreds of people die every day, yet the only time there is concern is when a firearm is used?
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      08-29-2015, 01:33 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
I will never understand the gun obsession here now (did make sense long time ago)
The more those work to ban them, the more others will want to exercise their freedom to own them. More guns were purchased under the Obama administration than any other time in history, and you can rest assured more people are hoarding ammo and firearms now than any other time in history. Its as much our right to want them as it is your right to dislike them.
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      08-29-2015, 01:46 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Because its simple, the phrase "gun violence" it itself is meaningless. A gun cant be violent anymore than a knife, a car, a bomb etc. A person can be violent, and a person can choose to use a gun, a knife, a car, a bomb or multiple other devices at which to satisfy their desires, but the object itself cannot do anything. By focusing on the tool used, you arent fixing the PROBLEM, which is the person behind it. If a guy wants to kill you, or someone else, and its really that big of a deal, hes going to do it. In addition, how do you enforce banning something to a criminal? You can take away the rights of law abiding citizens because they abide by the law, what about all those who dont obey the laws? How would making firearms illegal stop them when obviously making murder illegal didnt. Would they choose to abide by just firearms laws when murdering people?

Regardless of what millions of ideas you have, it all comes back to FIX THE PROBLEM, DONT BLAME THE TOOL USED.

And No matter how hard I try, I cant seem to get gun haters to understand more laws ONLY STOP LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, NOT CRIMINALS.
It's the same old argument guns don't kill people, people kill people which is a complete cop out to not dealing with the problem.

Bottom line is you are correct guns don't kill people, people kill people but people with guns kill more people then those without.
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      08-29-2015, 02:03 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
It's the same old argument guns don't kill people, people kill people which is a complete cop out to not dealing with the problem.

Bottom line is you are correct guns don't kill people, people kill people but people with guns kill more people then those without.
The shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line. While firearms are plentiful, they will be used... when they arent, something else will be in its place. The problem is banning guns DOES NOT stop the flow of firearms to criminals as most obtain them illegally anyway. The "gun show loophole", lackluster background checks and whatever other buzz phrase of the week are not the reason criminals obtain firearms, but in fact with more regulation, it just becomes more difficult for legal citizens to obtain them.

You need to stop blaming the firearm for a person's desire to murder and instead fix the person. As long as society is too scared to make any assumptions based on characteristics of the person, social status or gatherings etc, bad things will continue to happen. Instead of wasting precious resources on attempting to ban firearms (which wont EVER happen, and each time its attempted, MORE people become gun owners. I thank you for your attempts as it makes us stronger each time), spend those resources researching what changed in the last 20-30 years causing all these problems. Why, all the sudden, are people going crazy and murdering each other? They didnt wake up and say "hey, look at all these guns! Lets go kill people!"... something changed and caused mental instability in certain people and THAT needs to be fixed. Between the NRA, the billion anti gun groups, etc, how much funding could be funneled into the correct research to fix society instead of fighting over something that isnt going to change.
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      08-29-2015, 02:14 PM   #274
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Further pushing my reasoning, someone finally drew a correlation between mass shootings and drugs... things that these days are handed out like candy.
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      08-29-2015, 02:31 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Because its simple, the phrase "gun violence" it itself is meaningless. A gun cant be violent anymore than a knife, a car, a bomb etc. A person can be violent, and a person can choose to use a gun, a knife, a car, a bomb or multiple other devices at which to satisfy their desires, but the object itself cannot do anything. By focusing on the tool used, you arent fixing the PROBLEM, which is the person behind it. If a guy wants to kill you, or someone else, and its really that big of a deal, hes going to do it. In addition, how do you enforce banning something to a criminal? You can take away the rights of law abiding citizens because they abide by the law, what about all those who dont obey the laws? How would making firearms illegal stop them when obviously making murder illegal didnt. Would they choose to abide by just firearms laws when murdering people?

Regardless of what millions of ideas you have, it all comes back to FIX THE PROBLEM, DONT BLAME THE TOOL USED.

And No matter how hard I try, I cant seem to get gun haters to understand more laws ONLY STOP LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, NOT CRIMINALS.
This is because liberals operate their lives based on emotions rather than fact and logic. Maybe you should start crying when you are trying to help them understand. They understand tears.

Immigrants opposed to gun ownership often are victims of learned helplessness from their home countries, where they are babysat like children and not even allowed to own knives much less guns. The concept of self defense is foreign to many of them.

Last edited by DfVgyCjmFQnu; 08-29-2015 at 03:16 PM..
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      08-29-2015, 03:08 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
The more those work to ban them, the more others will want to exercise their freedom to own them. More guns were purchased under the Obama administration than any other time in history, and you can rest assured more people are hoarding ammo and firearms now than any other time in history. Its as much our right to want them as it is your right to dislike them.
Again, I did not mention a word "ban". I have never heard any other nation obsessed with owning guns.
What is the reason behind that?
To protect yourself??
From? You take your gun everywhere you go, every day? Poor deputy, trained to use it every day could not do anything in TX.
From government that may take away your liberties and democracy?
Since we are spreading democracy all over the world lately, should we also teach these "new democracies" the laws familiar to us and equip them all with personal guns instead of taking them away to restore peace?
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      08-29-2015, 03:14 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
If he was stabbed to death, would you show the same concern? Or are you only concerned because a firearm was used? What if someone ran him over to get out of a ticket? Why is it hundreds of people die every day, yet the only time there is concern is when a firearm is used?
G, what if... Obvious thing, and mentioned before, is that not both news people + the interviewee would have not been killed/injured if it were a knife. Most likely the attacker would have not killed the armed deputy with a knife?
My point is, again, that the rate of firearm murders (schools, work places, etc.) is higher at the place obsessed with owning guns.
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      08-29-2015, 03:36 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
Again, I did not mention a word "ban". I have never heard any other nation obsessed with owning guns.
What is the reason behind that?
Multiple reasons which would likely get multiple answers. Im not "obsessed" with guns by any means, but I do enjoy shooting them often, use one daily for my job, and enjoy having the confidence that if put into a situation off duty that I have at least the opportunity to defend my life instead of merely being a victim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
To protect yourself??
Myself, others around me, family etc. Im not a hero, out to find a gunfight, or looking for trouble, but in a situation where there is no other alternative or means of escape, I am happy I have a firearm instead of no other option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
From?
whatever poses a risk. If nothing ever does, then see above for enjoyment of target shooting, practicing, collection aspect (Firearms are one of the few commodities that increase in value consistently, especially during bad times when everything else drops)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
You take your gun everywhere you go, every day?
Basically. I cant think of a reason not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
Poor deputy, trained to use it every day could not do anything in TX.
Its very sad... Another reason I carry a gun. If a person like that will shoot an officer with no regard for the law or human life, what is to stop him from shooting me next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
From government that may take away your liberties and democracy?
Would it be the first time? What do you consider "removing liberties and democracy"? Do you feel the need to protect yourself or do you feel someone else will always be there for you? When they arent, what will you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
Since we are spreading democracy all over the world lately, should we also teach these "new democracies" the laws familiar to us and equip them all with personal guns instead of taking them away to restore peace?
Im pretty sure Obama is doing that currently by picking a side and arming them. Its not up to me what happens, and whether or not you agree with his actions are between you and him.
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      08-29-2015, 03:47 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
G, what if... Obvious thing, and mentioned before, is that not both news people + the interviewee would have not been killed/injured if it were a knife. Most likely the attacker would have not killed the armed deputy with a knife?
My point is, again, that the rate of firearm murders (schools, work places, etc.) is higher at the place obsessed with owning guns.
So the skinny blonde reporter and older woman would have fought off the 250-300 lb attacker with ease after he may have stabbed the camera man? How exactly do you know without a doubt that if the attacker didnt have a gun, everyone would be smiley happy right now and he would have said "aw nuts, I dont have a gun, im just not going to attack anyone".

With the deputy, a knife will go through a bulletproof vest like butter, bullets will not. You might be surprised how dangerous a knife is and how much damage it does, however since that isnt nearly as exciting for the anti gun crowd, the media doesnt cover many stabbings.

You dont have a point. You are emotionally connected to hating firearms, and therefore blame them for all that is evil. Prison has no firearms, yet people die from being stabbed there daily. Mexico has fewer guns and people die there from being stabbed daily.

Removing firearms does not fix anything, it does not reduce anything, it does not change a bad person from wanting to murder you. The only thing banning or restricting firearms does is remove a legal law abiding citizen from purchasing and owning them.

Im going to repeat this again, please let it sink in. Background checks, firearm restrictions, "assault weapons" bans, high capacity magazine bans etc ONLY stop LAW ABIDING citizens from having these items, NOT criminals.
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      08-29-2015, 04:03 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Multiple reasons which would likely get multiple answers. Im not "obsessed" with guns by any means, but I do enjoy shooting them often, use one daily for my job, and enjoy having the confidence that if put into a situation off duty that I have at least the opportunity to defend my life instead of merely being a victim.


Myself, others around me, family etc. Im not a hero, out to find a gunfight, or looking for trouble, but in a situation where there is no other alternative or means of escape, I am happy I have a firearm instead of no other option.


whatever poses a risk. If nothing ever does, then see above for enjoyment of target shooting, practicing, collection aspect (Firearms are one of the few commodities that increase in value consistently, especially during bad times when everything else drops)


Basically. I cant think of a reason not to.


Its very sad... Another reason I carry a gun. If a person like that will shoot an officer with no regard for the law or human life, what is to stop him from shooting me next.


Would it be the first time? What do you consider "removing liberties and democracy"? Do you feel the need to protect yourself or do you feel someone else will always be there for you? When they arent, what will you do?


Im pretty sure Obama is doing that currently by picking a side and arming them. Its not up to me what happens, and whether or not you agree with his actions are between you and him.
Wow, really?? You walk around with your gun in your pocket watching everyone around and suspecting he or she would blow your head off? In 45 years, having lived in China, Europe (Yugoslavia) and last 24 years in FL, AZ and now TX, I have NEVER even thought about having a need to obtain a gun. Guns have a single purpose - shoot someone (self protection or attack). Knives, cars and whatever else you previously tried to associate have totally different purpose
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      08-29-2015, 04:14 PM   #281
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Since we are spreading democracy all over the world lately,
Really?

Where to?
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      08-29-2015, 04:45 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
Wow, really?? You walk around with your gun in your pocket watching everyone around and suspecting he or she would blow your head off? In 45 years, having lived in China, Europe (Yugoslavia) and last 24 years in FL, AZ and now TX, I have NEVER even thought about having a need to obtain a gun. Guns have a single purpose - shoot someone (self protection or attack). Knives, cars and whatever else you previously tried to associate have totally different purpose
Well, here in Arizona, we have these things called "holsters", I typically wear one under my shirt with the firearm secured in it. Guns have multiple purposes such as sporting, hunting, target practice, and yes, self defense. Unfortunately you have been poorly indoctrinated into hating them and its obvious by your last post that you are blindly opposed to any other opinion besides your own. Its sad people are still so close minded these days, yet they are the same people who are the first to jump on others for not accepting what they insist is proper or politically correct.
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      08-29-2015, 05:02 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Well, here in Arizona, we have these things called "holsters", I typically wear one under my shirt with the firearm secured in it. Guns have multiple purposes such as sporting, hunting, target practice, and yes, self defense. Unfortunately you have been poorly indoctrinated into hating them and its obvious by your last post that you are blindly opposed to any other opinion besides your own. Its sad people are still so close minded these days, yet they are the same people who are the first to jump on others for not accepting what they insist is proper or politically correct.
They are also the first to jump behind the good guy with the gun when things go bad.
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      08-29-2015, 05:11 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
Well, here in Arizona, we have these things called "holsters", I typically wear one under my shirt with the firearm secured in it. Guns have multiple purposes such as sporting, hunting, target practice, and yes, self defense. Unfortunately you have been poorly indoctrinated into hating them and its obvious by your last post that you are blindly opposed to any other opinion besides your own. Its sad people are still so close minded these days, yet they are the same people who are the first to jump on others for not accepting what they insist is proper or politically correct.
Wow, talking about narrow minded. I am not hating (or loving) guns and laws around them. I never even mentioned they should be banned.

I just keep saying I never understood the OBSESSION (that totally blinded you and obviously tricked you into believing that I am someone pointing fingers against people with guns) with personal weapon.

How do other countries and their citizens even exist with different laws? How do they protect themselves? How does it feel walking around without that sexy holster under your shirt?
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      08-29-2015, 05:13 PM   #285
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They are also the first to jump behind the good guy with the gun when things go bad.
Ha, yes, every morning I wake up I start planning my moves around people that carry guns, just in case...
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      08-29-2015, 05:15 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by FenixMike View Post
The shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line. While firearms are plentiful, they will be used... when they arent, something else will be in its place. The problem is banning guns DOES NOT stop the flow of firearms to criminals as most obtain them illegally anyway. The "gun show loophole", lackluster background checks and whatever other buzz phrase of the week are not the reason criminals obtain firearms, but in fact with more regulation, it just becomes more difficult for legal citizens to obtain them.

You need to stop blaming the firearm for a person's desire to murder and instead fix the person. As long as society is too scared to make any assumptions based on characteristics of the person, social status or gatherings etc, bad things will continue to happen. Instead of wasting precious resources on attempting to ban firearms (which wont EVER happen, and each time its attempted, MORE people become gun owners. I thank you for your attempts as it makes us stronger each time), spend those resources researching what changed in the last 20-30 years causing all these problems. Why, all the sudden, are people going crazy and murdering each other? They didnt wake up and say "hey, look at all these guns! Lets go kill people!"... something changed and caused mental instability in certain people and THAT needs to be fixed. Between the NRA, the billion anti gun groups, etc, how much funding could be funneled into the correct research to fix society instead of fighting over something that isnt going to change.
Agree 100%

Fix the cause, not the effect.

It is a complete illusion to think if all guns are banned, murders from illegally obtained guns would cease....or that murder itself would stop....

You can't have a rational conversation with irrational people or ideals...
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