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      08-26-2015, 03:43 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
I know you can't rewrite history and whilst I'm not clear why any nation would want a constitution that allows the whole population to bear arms, if you were writing a blueprint for a new country you were starting tomorrow, it would indeed be a irrational to allow the populace at large to carry guns.

In the same way you wouldn't allow a two year old child to play with a Bengal tiger. Both will end in tears.
You'd rather only some be allowed to arm themselves?
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      08-26-2015, 03:45 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
My guns didn't kill anybody this morning when there was an active shooter who just killed two people, reported to be loose and on foot, a mile from my home. They provided safety, which was the purpose they were purchased for. They didn't fail.
They provided nothing, as they were not used. Given that the vast majority of Americans own guns, any individual wanting to do another American harm ,can be pretty sure he'll come across an armed individual. So your gun did not even provide saftey.
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      08-26-2015, 03:45 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
In the same way you wouldn't allow a two year old child to play with a Bengal tiger. Both will end in tears.
Logic is flawed. If a child sat next to a gun and never touched it, it would not end in tears.
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      08-26-2015, 03:46 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
You'd rather only some be allowed to arm themselves?
No.

The reverse.

No one is (legally) armed.

Look at the data.

You let most of the population carry guns.

They're going to kill each other.
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      08-26-2015, 03:48 PM   #137
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This was not sudden knee-jerk reaction, where he was overcome with rage in the moment and did something terrible. He was obviously tracking them for who knows how long; he had rented a car at the airport in the previous days, and he apparently switched cars to that after he left the scene to better aid his escape, etc. This was thought out and planned for days, maybe weeks as he sat and thought about they had wronged him.

There are plenty of examples where things escalated drastically and people get shot, but the shooter was not an inherently unstable/dangerous person who had no idea when they got up that morning that they would end a life that day. Some of those situations may create some valid anti-gun arguments. This is clearly not one of those cases. Those folks would be dead one way or the other, once he finally snapped.

Very sad, especially since the contents of his manifesto will only serve to bring more grief to the families of those killed in the church shooting. I'm sure NONE of those folks are now celebrating his efforts to ignite a race war.
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      08-26-2015, 03:49 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
Logic is flawed. If a child sat next to a gun and never touched it, it would not end in tears.
But yours is flawed too.

You would need to ensure the gun is in a locked box, to ensure that it doesn't hurt itself.

Have there not been (tragic) 'accidents' when one small child has shot another?
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      08-26-2015, 03:49 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
No.

The reverse.

No one is (legally) armed.

Look at the data.

You let most of the population carry guns.

They're going to kill each other.
If nobody is armed who enforces the law? How am I protected if Mike Tyson decides he likes my house and wants to move in?
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      08-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
No.

The reverse.

No one is (legally) armed.

Look at the data.

You let most of the population carry guns.

They're going to kill each other.
Not true, look at Mississippi.
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      08-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
No.

The reverse.

No one is (legally) armed.

Look at the data.

You let most of the population carry guns.

They're going to kill each other.
False.

Gun registration/ownership is at the highest ever, and firearms deaths are at their lowest since 1981. Check your facts.

https://www.fbi.gov
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      08-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
If nobody is armed who enforces the law? How am I protected if Mike Tyson decides he likes my house and wants to move in?
You erroneously assume one has to be armed to enforce the law of the land.

That is patently not true.
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      08-26-2015, 03:52 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
But yours is flawed too.

You would need to ensure the gun is in a locked box, to ensure that it doesn't hurt itself.
Not at all. If a gun sits there and no one touches it, it will not ride up and hurt anyone.

Try that with your tiger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
Have there not been (tragic) 'accidents' when one small child has shot another?
Absolutely. Along with pool drownings, auto accidents, and probably choking as well.
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      08-26-2015, 03:52 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
False.

Gun registration/ownership is at the highest ever, and firearms deaths are at their lowest since 1981. Check your facts.

https://www.fbi.gov
Never believe what your government tells you.

The government is run by vested interests.

If you look at the UN data, the US has a very poor record on gun deaths per 100 k population.
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      08-26-2015, 03:53 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
Never believe what your government tells you.

The government is run by vested interests.

If you look at the UN data, the US has a very poor record on gun deaths per 100 k population.
And the UN isn't a "vested" interest?

I'm done.
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      08-26-2015, 03:53 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
They provided nothing, as they were not used. Given that the vast majority of Americans own guns, any individual wanting to do another American harm ,can be pretty sure he'll come across an armed individual. So your gun did not even provide saftey.
That doesn't make sense. Explain again how my guns did not/would not provide safety. I'm not saying deterrent btw. Not the same thing. If I'm armed and proficient and my neighbor is neither- who is safer against an ill intended intruder?
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      08-26-2015, 03:56 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
And the UN isn't a "vested" interest?

I'm done.
The point being that it is neither for or against the gun lobby.

So there is no reason for the data to be corrupt.

The FBI on the other hand.....
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      08-26-2015, 03:56 PM   #148
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This tragedy aside - peace can and often must be maintained through force, or the threat of force...

Why do you lock your house at night? Locks generally only keep honest people honest...

Again - this (and all other) senseless loss of life is tragic, but to say taking a private citizens right to own a gun would have prevented this act is simply not true or rational.
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      08-26-2015, 03:56 PM   #149
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.....aaaaand Nick the Greek just joined my list of posters to block.

Man I love that feature, I can only take so much dumb.
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      08-26-2015, 03:57 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
But yours is flawed too.

You would need to ensure the gun is in a locked box, to ensure that it doesn't hurt itself.

Have there not been (tragic) 'accidents' when one small child has shot another?

Don't start me on this.

"I am a responsible gun owner, i lock my shit up in a childproof container buried in a hard to reach secret compartment between the drywall".

Great. now what happens when you need to defend yourself, "wait, wait sir, gimmie a sec i need to go fetch the key to the crate that holds the gun and the second key that opens the munitions case in another room, you know, to be safe 'cos kids live here ... gimmie a sec then we can settle our difference".

spare me.
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      08-26-2015, 03:58 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
I know you can't rewrite history and whilst I'm not clear why any nation would want a constitution that allows the whole population to bear arms, if you were writing a blueprint for a new country you were starting tomorrow, it would indeed be a irrational to allow the populace at large to carry guns.

In the same way you wouldn't allow a two year old child to play with a Bengal tiger. Both will end in tears.
Agreed. Just remember when this thing was written. Needs to evolve with the times.
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      08-26-2015, 03:59 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
That doesn't make sense. Explain again how my guns did not/would not provide safety. I'm not saying deterrent btw. Not the same thing. If I'm armed and proficient and my neighbor is neither- who is safer against an ill intended intruder?
The person living in the country that doesn't hand out guns like candy so the intruder is not armed to begin with.
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      08-26-2015, 04:00 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Agreed. Just remember when this thing was written. Needs to evolve with the times.
I believe we're devolving with the times. The Founders had it right. People who think like you are the ones who have screwed everything up.
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      08-26-2015, 04:00 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
That doesn't make sense. Explain again how my guns did not/would not provide safety. I'm not saying deterrent btw. Not the same thing. If I'm armed and proficient and my neighbor is neither- who is safer against an ill intended intruder?
My point is that, and I'm happy to be corrected, that over 80% of American's own a gun. So the prowler knows there is a greater that 80% chance that any home he enters will be armed. Unless you stand on your doorstep with your AK47 and your neighbour stands there waiving a white flag, the potential assailant is still of the mind he will come up against a firearm.
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