BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion Proving God

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-17-2015, 07:00 PM   #111
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Your Psalms quote appears to be taken out of context. You need to read the entire chapter - it's someone who really hates his captors - not an instruction from God.
It is on the Bible correct? The Bible is the word of God. I thought God was all love.

If you are not happy about that example I can go find another one a little more explicit.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2015, 07:02 PM   #112
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
My point is we may never be able to know certain things like an ant no matter how smart simply cannot know about physics or the fact that they live on a planet that is out in space etc.

Yes we are much smarter than an ant and we discover new stuff all the time. I am in no way saying we shouldn't keep doing this. However our knowledge may be physically limited by factors that we cannot even understand.

So I guess what I am basically saying is we may be to God, Aliens, The Universe etc what ants are to us and thus no matter how smart or technologically advanced we are we may never be able to full understand all the mysteries of the universe.
Thanks for the better explanation. I'm very sorry you think that way.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2015, 11:04 PM   #113
1smokehouse
Second Lieutenant
1smokehouse's Avatar
Guam
131
Rep
248
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i DCT
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Guam

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW 135i  [0.00]
2013 BMW 128i LE  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
There is no rainbow or final conclusion to being an Atheist. To me Atheism is the conclusion, it is not a way of life or a condition. I'm not waiting find out out there's no planner, designer or creator, I just want answers based on science and facts, tangible proof of why and how things came to be. I don't stop at "God did it".
The fact that you have to state the obvious "there is no atheist rainbow" is what is most telling. And there is no "stopping at God did it". You are trying to apply your presuppositions to my thought processes concerning God's sovereignty. Yes, we are and will continue to make discoveries, but the difference is the context. See below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
We have always been here, just as different species. I'm sure you went to high school and paid attention to your science teacher. We are a product of billions of years of constant change and adaptation. You and I are a blip on the Evolution process.
I completely understand the scientific process. We are all looking at the same evidence. What I have a problem with is this mentality that God has been "ruled out" to the point where we are not allowed by science to even ASK the last two questions because of the "unproven idea" of God, not that there isn't any tangible evidence of his existence. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence, but not the kind that science will currently accept to prove His existence. Which I have written elsewhere that science is a useless tool (by design) to try and prove God's existence. However, like a murder case where they lack physical evidence, other areas of "science" are accepted to determine who did it. Testimonial, circumstantial, behavioural and eye witness accounts to name a few. It's this fixation on something physically tangible that has restrained science as a tool. Many of the types of evidence are every bit as tangible, just not material and lead many to the conclusion that "God did it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
What the heck are you talking about??? We have managed to cure diseases, to live longer than ever before, we don't kill each other like in the middle age, we have evolved to become a more sensitive society where tolerance is pinnacle, the world poverty index has gone down, etc, etc, etc... Wake up man, we are making progress.
Again, I see two differing presuppositions coming into play here. I could equally make the same statement. One look at ISIS and we see the same medieval brutality and tolerance is not the starry-eyed ideal that everyone thinks it is. What is it we have to tolerate? Do we tolerate evil? And there are still way too many differing ideas on what is evil to have real peace. Everyone must surrender to the same "ideals" for that to happen.

I do not deny the progress we have made. But for what purpose? Evil is still present in this world. Like I said, we are still just as selfish, arrogant and unloving as ever. We will just be healthier and live longer to be that way. The problem isn't solving world hunger, curing diseases and learning to tolerate one another. It's what's in our hearts that needs to fixed. Human behaviour needs to change. Quit believing the star trek mumbo jumbo about being perfectly flawed. That we have our issues, but we are basically good. When you look at what is required to really have peace, joy, love, respect and purpose you see how even the best of us fall short. Social media is actually showing the world that people we have looked up to have their own dark secrets. Sin is in the heart of man no matter what we figure out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
Happy shall He be, who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock. (Psalms 137:9)
The God of the bible is evil... Ok, bear in mind that you are still coming from your own presupposition that physical life is the highest state of being. That if God were to take someones life it would be wrong. In fact, He said for US to not murder one another. Because we do not have perfect knowledge and justice to do it. If a life had to be taken, who else would really qualify to do it justly? Just a thought...

Additionally, the whole basis of salvation in the bible was in direct relation to God taking His own Son's life. Remember also the whole story of Isaac? The soul is eternal, physical death is only a change of our state of being. In your worldview, death is final and holds the greatest value, so even though I do not agree, I do understand why you feel that way. Spiritual death is the highest form of death, since it involves being forever separated from God.
__________________


// '13 SGM 135i M-Sport DCT PPK //
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2015, 11:57 PM   #114
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
867
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2014 C7, 2017 F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
Thanks for the better explanation. I'm very sorry you think that way.
For someone who talks so much about science I really did have higher hope for you.

Understanding and thinking about the limitations of the human brain is a fairly common scientific topic.

Not only the physical limitations of the human brain, but simply the fact that our understanding of the universe may be fundamentally constrained by us being part of the universe that we are trying to understand.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2015, 06:51 AM   #115
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
For someone who talks so much about science I really did have higher hope for you.

Understanding and thinking about the limitations of the human brain is a fairly common scientific topic.

Not only the physical limitations of the human brain, but simply the fact that our understanding of the universe may be fundamentally constrained by us being part of the universe that we are trying to understand.
To me there's no limitation of the human brain and that is why we cannot see eye to eye... Every time we discover something new to us we open up many possibilities. It is people like you that stalls progress, that is why I feel sorry for the way you think.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2015, 07:37 AM   #116
vsix
Lieutenant Colonel
vsix's Avatar
No_Country
546
Rep
1,612
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 sold, M4 F82
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Wow!Cool thread! My Contribution: I think that everyone of us wears a part of god's light, power, call it whatever you like! Some of us found a way to activate these power's. See healer's or just people that focus something and it come's to reality. What I mean by that is, our existence is much more complecated then our brain is able to understand. I personally believe, that an human beeing is able ( considering the activation of mentioned powers ) to even warp time and manipulate it's and other's future.
Of course all this, in respect of it's creator. Some calling jehova, other's allah or as we now him, god.
What's interesting german nazi's in the third Reich, where really totally into this subject and were trying to figure out what's going on. Later it became an subject that is involved with one of the most famous area's on the globe, calling the 51.
We can of course now start digging alot deeper into this theme...
Where do we come from, who was first, is the big bang theory just an smart governmental distraction?
To tell you the truth ... I don't know and I don't care!
What I do know though is, that an right mind set opens the door to all treasure's in life!
Be it materialistically or spiritually.
-cough-cough- my .2cent's
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2015, 08:39 AM   #117
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
867
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2014 C7, 2017 F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
To me there's no limitation of the human brain and that is why we cannot see eye to eye... Every time we discover something new to us we open up many possibilities. It is people like you that stalls progress, that is why I feel sorry for the way you think.
Do not assume you know anything about me or what I think. You can believe whatever you like, but please stop giving science and atheist a bad rep.
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2015, 10:58 AM   #118
Alfisti
Major
1131
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Grown men and women who believe in sky daddies, it boggles the freakin mind.
Appreciate 2
      11-18-2015, 11:22 AM   #119
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Do not assume you know anything about me or what I think. You can believe whatever you like, but please stop giving science and atheist a bad rep.
All I know is what you type and show me, and that is something I'm sad about. You think there are limitations and I do not. Carry on...
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2015, 11:23 AM   #120
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Grown men and women who believe in sky daddies, it boggles the freakin mind.
and it is scary to know that those are the same people voting for our leaders. That is why we are still stuck on stupid shit such as gay marriage, women's rights, intelligent design, etc... While other nations are laughing at us.

Last edited by KlausPA; 11-19-2015 at 11:04 AM..
Appreciate 2
      11-21-2015, 02:46 PM   #121
Ruddigger
Major
Ruddigger's Avatar
668
Rep
1,306
Posts

Drives: 2012 E91
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsix View Post
I personally believe, that an human beeing is able ( considering the activation of mentioned powers ) to even warp time and manipulate it's and other's future.
Of course all this, in respect of it's creator. Some calling jehova, other's allah or as we now him, god.
Wow, that's a hell of an assertion. James Randi has a million bucks for you if you can prove it.
Appreciate 1
      11-21-2015, 02:54 PM   #122
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
9939
Rep
22,620
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Yes if I focus my powers and wish for something I must have controlled the universe and made it happen, couldn't have been work or coincidence. Some of you have watched too many syfy movies and think you can do this shit.
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2015, 05:22 PM   #123
kiel_dafo_kenyg_as
DIE ANTWOORD
Germany
60
Rep
641
Posts

Drives: 335d E92
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bimmer's home - Bavaria

iTrader: (0)

Please excuse my ignorance, I haven't read a single post. I only wanna tell you: If you don't believe in God, give God a chance. Send a prayer. Take your time. It doesn't have to be a long prayer. Just think about what your prayer is all about while you're saying it. Be aware God will listen. You will feel it that God has listened. It will give you goose bumps and you will feel the power of God behind you when you leave the place where you have sent the prayer. Believe me. For the last 50 years I never was religious. After I felt the power of Jesus for the first time - I became, and it's beautiful.
__________________
King of the road says you move to slow
http://www.e90post.com/forums/album.php?albumid=11471&pictureid=55607
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2015, 05:30 AM   #124
vsix
Lieutenant Colonel
vsix's Avatar
No_Country
546
Rep
1,612
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 sold, M4 F82
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruddigger View Post
Wow, that's a hell of an assertion. James Randi has a million bucks for you if you can prove it.
Telling you, that's the meaning behind:
Everything is possible.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2015, 06:06 PM   #125
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
My point is we may never be able to know certain things like an ant no matter how smart simply cannot know about physics or the fact that they live on a planet that is out in space etc.

Yes we are much smarter than an ant and we discover new stuff all the time. I am in no way saying we shouldn't keep doing this. However our knowledge may be physically limited by factors that we cannot even understand.

So I guess what I am basically saying is we may be to God, Aliens, The Universe etc what ants are to us and thus no matter how smart or technologically advanced we are we may never be able to full understand all the mysteries of the universe.
Excellent point of view. Question for you... Don't you want to find out? Don't you want to know if we can understand?
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2015, 11:22 PM   #126
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
867
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2014 C7, 2017 F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
Excellent point of view. Question for you... Don't you want to find out? Don't you want to know if we can understand?
Yes I want to find out, however part of understanding is not just knowing that there are things you don't know and trying to figure them out, but you must also know that there are thing you don't even know that you don't know.

I think there's a lot of things we have yet to discover and it's just a matter of time before we figure them out, but I also think at some point we may be limited by our actual physiology and/or the universe itself in what we can understand. How far away that is I have no idea, hopefully we are colonizing other planets and traveling faster than light by then.
Appreciate 1
      11-23-2015, 07:35 PM   #127
Ruddigger
Major
Ruddigger's Avatar
668
Rep
1,306
Posts

Drives: 2012 E91
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Your premise that we will reach the limit of our physiology is reliant on the idea that we are done evolving as a species. How have you reached this conclusion?
Appreciate 1
      11-23-2015, 07:39 PM   #128
Ruddigger
Major
Ruddigger's Avatar
668
Rep
1,306
Posts

Drives: 2012 E91
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteblue View Post
You will feel it that God has listened. It will give you goose bumps and you will feel the power of God behind you when you leave the place where you have sent the prayer. Believe me.
Good feelings are not evidence. Sorry, this means nothing to me.
Appreciate 2
      11-23-2015, 10:20 PM   #129
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
867
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2014 C7, 2017 F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruddigger View Post
Your premise that we will reach the limit of our physiology is reliant on the idea that we are done evolving as a species. How have you reached this conclusion?
You are assuming I'm reaching any conclusion. My statement is more of a thought experiment than any kind of factual information. Although in my readings I have come across the idea more than once, whether those writers have taken into account human evolution I have no idea.

Hell if I was a betting man my money would be on blowing ourselves up before we reach our physiological limit or have any kind of significant evolution.

That being said I still find it interesting to think about these things.

BTW: Unless it comes up through random mutation we may have no natural reason to evolve the physiology necessary to fully understand the universe. After all not having that ability is (at least as of now) not a hindrance to our reproduction.

Last edited by dreamingat30fps; 11-23-2015 at 10:27 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2015, 11:59 PM   #130
Ruddigger
Major
Ruddigger's Avatar
668
Rep
1,306
Posts

Drives: 2012 E91
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Luckily, random mutation is pretty much the way these things work. It happens.

If your statement was a thought experiment, then I'm happy to entertain it, of course. It didn't read that way to me, so that was a miscommunication.

As for us blowing ourselves up, I hope not, but....probably. Lol
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2015, 01:04 AM   #131
dreamingat30fps
Major
United_States
867
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2014 C7, 2017 F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruddigger View Post
Luckily, random mutation is pretty much the way these things work. It happens.

If your statement was a thought experiment, then I'm happy to entertain it, of course. It didn't read that way to me, so that was a miscommunication.

As for us blowing ourselves up, I hope not, but....probably. Lol
Still I think we would have to evolve pretty fast. Even if we did though the universe itself may prevent us from revealing all of its mysteries.

Another thing I think about is why are the laws of physics laws at all. I mean for example we understand gravity, we can write out the mathematical equations and for the most part I would think we have pretty good understanding of gravity. However WHY do objects attract each other to begin with?
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2015, 10:15 AM   #132
KlausPA
Lieutenant
KlausPA's Avatar
194
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: Blue overpriced POS
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: York, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Still I think we would have to evolve pretty fast. Even if we did though the universe itself may prevent us from revealing all of its mysteries.

Another thing I think about is why are the laws of physics laws at all. I mean for example we understand gravity, we can write out the mathematical equations and for the most part I would think we have pretty good understanding of gravity. However WHY do objects attract each other to begin with?
Because God said "let it be attraction between two objects" and so it happened... Amen.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST