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      12-31-2015, 10:15 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by xdnbc
I am a Canadian and so have a different take on immigrants and refugees. Most of the people my age that I know in Vancouver are immigrants and/or refugees [as I am]. Our diverse demography makes living here interesting and fun. Ironically, the original inhabitants here [from various first nation bands], are having the most difficult times economically and socially. My guess is that most of you who are afraid of Syrian and other non white christian refugees come from mono cultures with little diversity of opinion or life style. Historically, this kind of environment has triggered: the Know Nothing Party [hating anybody not born in the US, non Protestants, not white male]; slavery [or considering them to be less than human of blacks, natives, Irish, Chinese]; and excluding or limiting immigration of Japanese, Chinese, Irish, Germans, Jews, Muslims, Vietnamese, Mexicans, Catholics, Indians and a few more I suppose. The USA and Canada owe their wealth, social flexibility, and even democracy, to the immigrants who came to North America. The people with the courage, intelligence, flexibility and persistence to overcome the very difficult social and language transition and transportation nightmares to leave their native land to get to a better place to live- these are definite assets to any nation smart enough to take them. I am happy to say that Canada has governments [Federal, Provincial, and Municipal] that are now openly welcoming Syrian and other refugees, and we realize that we have to actively help them learn our culture, language and lifestyle, encourage the kids to feel welcome in our schools and community centers [my community center is offering language, sports, and entrance into programs to Syrian adults and kids new to our neighborhood].
If you Americans truly are in the land of the free and brave, stop being so afraid of people who are a bit different than you, and open up your mind and your world.
How much time have you spent in the US?
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      01-03-2016, 01:29 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
How much time have you spent in the US?
About 20 years. Why do you ask?
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      01-03-2016, 02:06 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Built4Sin View Post
Xdnbc, this is the problem...

----------
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN (OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY NATIONAL) in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
---------


The problem is immigrants these days are not trying to integrate and become whatever nations new citizens... They socially outcast themselves and demand whatever nation to understand them (not all, but it seems pretty heavy). You're here because apparently you didn't like where you came from... WELCOME! Now become one of us.
I think that there is a tendency for immigrants to be ghettoized- if you don't know the language, cultural values, or styles well, you spend your time with others who are more similar. This has happened in the North America and to a greater extent in Europe for centuries. The old establishment tends to treat the new immigrant as inferior and they are forced to live in the slums, or ghettos, or neighborhoods that are falling apart and jobs are harder to come by. The next generation has many who have learned the language and culture and the means to do well. And the third generation [in North America and to a lesser degree in Europe-probably because Europe is more homogenius than North America] considers themselves Canadian or American and has an accent that fits, especially if they are no longer in the ghetto.

Interestingly, Singapore has realized this phenomenon and its housing policy is unique and very effective.
http://www.slideshare.net/VikasSharm...housing-policy

Notice that they have Chinese, Malay, Indians, and Other ethnic groups that they have quotas for in Public Housing so that all buildings have a balanced ethnic mix, and they eliminate enclaves. Note each ethnic group is a minority and they shop and see each other every day and all kids see other in school. Singapore has no ethnic violence, and it is rated 2nd in Economic Freedom for 2015. http://www.heritage.org/index/country/singapore

And BTW: Americans and Canadians hyphenate themselves all the time. We have sub groups like: Irish American, or Tea Party American, or Vancouver Canuck, or Canadian Meti, or African American. It adds flavor to have different looking people with different styles- and we can grab bits of one and add it to our own to make a hybrid that may become cool.
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      01-03-2016, 03:02 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdnbc View Post
I think that there is a tendency for immigrants to be ghettoized- if you don't know the language, cultural values, or styles well, you spend your time with others who are more similar. This has happened in the North America and to a greater extent in Europe for centuries. The old establishment tends to treat the new immigrant as inferior and they are forced to live in the slums, or ghettos, or neighborhoods that are falling apart and jobs are harder to come by. The next generation has many who have learned the language and culture and the means to do well. And the third generation [in North America and to a lesser degree in Europe-probably because Europe is more homogenius than North America] considers themselves Canadian or American and has an accent that fits, especially if they are no longer in the ghetto.

Interestingly, Singapore has realized this phenomenon and its housing policy is unique and very effective.
http://www.slideshare.net/VikasSharm...housing-policy

Notice that they have Chinese, Malay, Indians, and Other ethnic groups that they have quotas for in Public Housing so that all buildings have a balanced ethnic mix, and they eliminate enclaves. Note each ethnic group is a minority and they shop and see each other every day and all kids see other in school. Singapore has no ethnic violence, and it is rated 2nd in Economic Freedom for 2015. http://www.heritage.org/index/country/singapore

And BTW: Americans and Canadians hyphenate themselves all the time. We have sub groups like: Irish American, or Tea Party American, or Vancouver Canuck, or Canadian Meti, or African American. It adds flavor to have different looking people with different styles- and we can grab bits of one and add it to our own to make a hybrid that may become cool.
Hmm, I wouldn't say that immigrants are treated as inferior (save for seriously ethnocentric people) and I believe that any ghettoized lifestyle is probably due to the fact that at whatever age they're at, they're going to be behind the money curve (unless they immigrated with money).

As for comparing us to Europe, I think that could be due to cultural differences in how we live. Europe lives in towns that promote knowing your neighbor, here in the US we strive to own property with enough land so we don't have to see the neighbor! Yet the trend is barely holding with the new crowd of young adults wanting more city life connectivity.

I'll take a look at the Singapore link; however taking a look at the CIA World FactBook it looks like while being socially better off they don't really have the "melting pot" of diversity going on (Chinese 74.2%, Malay 13.3%, Indian 9.2%, other 3.3% (2013 est.)

On the hyphening, from what it seems we're the same here in the US. Many different types of people claiming many different titles of heritage- American. My take away from Roosevelt's quote was that you recognize you came here/there as a seedling looking for new soil to grow from... Essentially you forsook your culture for another acknowledge that, come to terms, move on, grow, and become another productive citizen.

(Good conversation!)
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      01-03-2016, 07:40 AM   #357
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I read this entire post tonight. I must be crazy. I came to e90post to learn how to code my BMW.
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      01-05-2016, 12:21 AM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdnbc
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
How much time have you spent in the US?
About 20 years. Why do you ask?
Because your post would indicate you haven't spent any time in the US. You're a Canadian immigrant, and have spent 20 years in the US?
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      01-05-2016, 11:16 AM   #359
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I read this entire post tonight. I must be crazy. I came to e90post to learn how to code my BMW.
It happens to the best of us, we wander into OT and suddenly can't remember there was anything car related to the website.
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      01-05-2016, 11:29 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
It happens to the best of us, we wander into OT and suddenly can't remember there was anything car related to the website.
I wonder how many refugees drive BMWs, or drive in general for that matter.

A family member of mine once told me that while she was parking at work one morning (at a Subaru manufacturing plant of all places), a car came strolling by and casually parked a few spots away from her with about 4 police cars following this person, sirens blaring and all. To make a long story short, the person the police were following was a Burmese refugee which had been speeding and made a turn on red when it wasn't allowed. However, this person was completely oblivious that police were following him, trying to pull him over and so he casually drove ~20 miles to work with police "chasing" him. He was so dumbfounded when he stepped out of his car and police were pointing guns before arresting him.

Total disregard to assimilate to a society that you not only live in but also provided a safe environment to live and work.
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      01-05-2016, 01:24 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
It happens to the best of us, we wander into OT and suddenly can't remember there was anything car related to the website.
+1
i havent read a car related post on this site in 6 months
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      01-05-2016, 01:29 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by ChicagoM4 View Post
I wonder how many refugees drive BMWs, or drive in general for that matter.

A family member of mine once told me that while she was parking at work one morning (at a Subaru manufacturing plant of all places), a car came strolling by and casually parked a few spots away from her with about 4 police cars following this person, sirens blaring and all. To make a long story short, the person the police were following was a Burmese refugee which had been speeding and made a turn on red when it wasn't allowed. However, this person was completely oblivious that police were following him, trying to pull him over and so he casually drove ~20 miles to work with police "chasing" him. He was so dumbfounded when he stepped out of his car and police were pointing guns before arresting him.

Total disregard to assimilate to a society that you not only live in but also provided a safe environment to live and work.
I'm not sure if that's an issue of not wanting to assimilate to society or just being an inattentive idiot.
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      01-06-2016, 01:40 PM   #363
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What's exactly the difference between a BODY-ARMOR-FRAGMENTATION-PROTECTIVE-VEST and an ordinary bullet proof vest? Does the fragmentation vest also stop bullets from pistols or is it only protective against low energy shell fragments?
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      01-06-2016, 02:12 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiel_dafo_kenyg_as View Post
What's exactly the difference between a BODY-ARMOR-FRAGMENTATION-PROTECTIVE-VEST and an ordinary bullet proof vest? Does the fragmentation vest also stop bullets from pistols or is it only protective against low energy shell fragments?
A frag vest or Flack jacket is designed to protect your core from shrapnel, say for instance if you take a mortar hit nearby, it protects you from the spray of fragmentation (pieces of metal, rocks etc). (Its a level 1 body armor, basic)

Bullet proof vests are exactly that, different combinations of materials that catch bullets that hit the vest. Vests are usually the lower levels and soft/ pliable (Usually level 2 body armor and up to higher caliber levels using Ceramic or metal plate inserts)


Here's a quick google
http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballist...n_Levels.shtml
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      01-06-2016, 08:35 PM   #365
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Hyphen..... Meh....

I'm american-canadian-filipino-malaysian.

Wtf.

American! And that's it.
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      01-08-2016, 09:07 AM   #366
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/us/ter...ees/index.html

So, back to the title of the thread. Someone tell me, again, all about how much "scrutiny" these refugees go through? Someone, please, tell me AGAIN how difficult it is for these types of people to get into our country and all about how the current process is enough or more than enough. Go on, do it.

How terrible is it that this just proves Greg Abbot right? (No, I'm not a supporter of his governorship of my state)
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      01-09-2016, 05:08 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Because your post would indicate you haven't spent any time in the US. You're a Canadian immigrant, and have spent 20 years in the US?
What about my statement shows I don't understand the US?
And I have spent time in New York, Tennessee, New Mexico, California and Washington.
I am also pretty old, and have spent time in France, UK, Mexico, Spain, and Germany [not much here].
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      01-09-2016, 11:22 AM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdnbc
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Because your post would indicate you haven't spent any time in the US. You're a Canadian immigrant, and have spent 20 years in the US?
What about my statement shows I don't understand the US?
And I have spent time in New York, Tennessee, New Mexico, California and Washington.
I am also pretty old, and have spent time in France, UK, Mexico, Spain, and Germany [not much here].
Because anyone who concludes the US is a racist nation is only reading the mainstream media and looking from the outside in. The US is the least racist nation on earth.
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      01-15-2016, 08:04 PM   #369
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Because anyone who concludes the US is a racist nation is only reading the mainstream media and looking from the outside in. The US is the least racist nation on earth.
I am not sure why you think the US is the least racist nation on earth. There are parts of the US, and many people that don't seem to be racist [and you did elect Barack Obama twice], and parts that seem very racist. You are having a lot of blacks being killed by cops, you have a major contender for president saying that most Mexicans are rapists and murderers and would ban Muslims, you have a few governors stating they don't want Muslims to enter their states. Yes, they are supported by a minority of Americans, but their rhetoric is still scary.

Canada, lately, has become less racist and now openly welcoming 15,000 refugees by Feb.

But you are right that the US is among the least racist of nations: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...prise-you.html
Anglo and Latin countries most tolerant. People in the survey were most likely to embrace a racially diverse neighbor in the United Kingdom and its Anglo former colonies (the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) and in Latin America. The only real exceptions were oil-rich Venezuela, where income inequality sometimes breaks along racial lines, and the Dominican Republic, perhaps because of its adjacency to troubled Haiti. Scandinavian countries also scored high.
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      01-16-2016, 12:15 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by xdnbc View Post
I am not sure why you think the US is the least racist nation on earth. There are parts of the US, and many people that don't seem to be racist [and you did elect Barack Obama twice], and parts that seem very racist. You are having a lot of blacks being killed by cops, you have a major contender for president saying that most Mexicans are rapists and murderers and would ban Muslims, you have a few governors stating they don't want Muslims to enter their states. Yes, they are supported by a minority of Americans, but their rhetoric is still scary.
Blacks being killed by cops are over-reported and largely spun by the mainstream media. Look at the circumstances in any of the over-reported incidents over the past several years, and it's clearly a lot of fabrication. Flames are further fanned by Obama and his administration.

The major contender for President did NOT say that most Mexicans are rapists and murders. Here's his actual quote:

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best,” he said during the announcement. “They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting."

He would appear to be right, in any study of crime:

"- Between 2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%.
- During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.
- That 38% represents 7,085 murders out of the total of 18,643."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...n-some-states/

Trump also did NOT say that he would ban Muslims, nor did any of the state Governors. What Trump actually said was:

“We need a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States while we figure out what the hell is going on.”

This was in response to the multiple jihad-based shootings, including San Bernardino, where both of the shooters waltzed past our so-called "screenings."

The President has this authority, and has had since 1952:

"Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate." (Jimmy Carter exercised this authority when he banned Iranians from entering the US in 1979, and deported thousands of Iranians who were here).

Similarly, the state Governors are rejecting non-vetted immigrants from the middle east to be settled in their states. The larger issue is that states (including local law enforcement) are not being notified at all by the Feds when these immigrants are settled in the states. There was a lot of conflict when Obama proposed allowing 10,000 Syrians to immigrate next year; in reality, the US took over 102,000 since 2012, with no notice to the states, and no vetting process. This is why the Governors are trying to stop it.
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      01-19-2016, 01:57 PM   #371
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This was in response to the multiple jihad-based shootings, including San Bernardino, where both of the shooters waltzed past our so-called "screenings."
Huh? They were never subject to refugee screenings since they didn't come here as refugees. One of them was an American I thought?
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      01-19-2016, 11:14 PM   #372
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Huh? They were never subject to refugee screenings since they didn't come here as refugees. One of them was an American I thought?
One was an American by birth, but the wife was not - she went through multiple "screenings" where officials completely missed her (rather obvious) jihadist leanings. The husband also made numerous trips and stays to known jihadist areas, without any screening process to catch his leanings as well. But all the rest of us law abiding Americans are supposed to go through a thorough background screening process if we want to purchase a gun, much less fly on an airplane.... This Administration has us living in the Twilight Zone.
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      01-27-2016, 01:20 PM   #373
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I'm not about anti-immigrant but I think this topic is more about being 100% cautious and to prevent any additional domestic terrorist threats entering. It's simply just a "you never know" situation so it should be put on hold until things get sorted out.
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      01-27-2016, 02:44 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm not about anti-immigrant but I think this topic is more about being 100% cautious and to prevent any additional domestic terrorist threats entering. It's simply just a "you never know" situation so it should be put on hold until things get sorted out.
And that's exactly what Trump said
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