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      02-15-2016, 10:30 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
So - I make more, therefore I should pay more..? When the bucket runs dry...and business leaves the country (Carrier anyone?) - who will the government tax then?

Penalize success and hard work. Perfect.

How's that system working now..? Tax and spend doesn't work.

Perfect to those in power. Pit everyone against each other and assign a pantomime villain to each party.

Trillions in debt with no viable plan for debt reduction - from either party.

Do they get to stay in power? Yep. Is there any accountability that they must answer to? Nope. Do they care about anything but getting reelected? Nope

Show me one government run program that is run more efficiently or to break even than in the private sector.

It is over there. Right next to the unicorn and the tooth ferry.
Answered.
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      02-15-2016, 10:32 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
20%. You?
25% all in. Federal, state, local.

I'm glad that you are for tax cuts!!
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      02-15-2016, 10:51 AM   #179
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Even with all these facts, personal and real world examples, nothing will change the minds of the minds that are made up. As in, "I'm voting democrat no matter what."

It hasn't always been like this, myself included/conservative lean, but the mongoose versus cobra mentality in our present political environment has everyone polarized.

When asked who her enemies were hillary said first is republicans.
This vindictive tunnel vision is OUR problem. Liberal, religious, black, conservative, progressive and any label you wish to apply. And that goes for both parties. It's embarrassing actually and I'm guilty too.

It's got to stop if this country is going to be the place we all want to live and exist together as countrymen and not civil enemies.

Rant complete.
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      02-15-2016, 10:59 AM   #180
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I'm glad that you are for tax cuts!!
Absolutely.
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      02-15-2016, 12:06 PM   #181
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I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
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      02-15-2016, 12:10 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
So you can lower taxes and govt spending but at the same time make those programs better. Everybody is happy.
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      02-15-2016, 12:12 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Even with all these facts, personal and real world examples, nothing will change the minds of the minds that are made up. As in, "I'm voting democrat no matter what."

It hasn't always been like this, myself included/conservative lean, but the mongoose versus cobra mentality in our present political environment has everyone polarized.

When asked who her enemies were hillary said first is republicans.
This vindictive tunnel vision is OUR problem. Liberal, religious, black, conservative, progressive and any label you wish to apply. And that goes for both parties. It's embarrassing actually and I'm guilty too.

It's got to stop if this country is going to be the place we all want to live and exist together as countrymen and not civil enemies.

Rant complete.
True. It can change though.

In the 1950s blacks voted republican.
MLK voted republican in every election
The kkk was the militants arm of the southern democrats
Senator Gore, Al Gore's father, led the charge to stop blacks from getting the right to vote
Etc, etc etc
This changed when LBJ signed in equal rights, which would have happened under whoever was president then, and started his "war on poverty", the failed plan of handouts which predominantly went to minorities.

Since then, minorities have voted democrat as they like their free money.

Now democrats are blocking immigration reform at every turn, as well as enforcing existing law about illegals as a way to garner hispanic votes.

However, Obama's administration has been abismal for minorities. Plummeting wages, high unemployment, etc. Blacks are starting to realize they have been screwed but they have also been placated with more government handouts.

Hispanic culture matches republican values more closely. Strong family, work ethic, protect religious freedoms, etc. If a Rubio or Cruz is nominated and real immigration reform is proposed I think they will vote republican.

Jews have always voted liberal. Again though, the Obama administration has hurt Israel at every opportunity as they are anti-Netanyahu and it has hurt Israel and the Jews as a result. This may finally wake a few of them up too.

There will always be the one issue people who will vote based on one issue, misguided or not. Pro life & prochoice for example. This isn't going to change so it's pretty ignorant to vote based on these issues. Progun is almost there too because they worry that their rights will be and have been taken incrementally.

So figure there is 20% who will always vote right or left. Then another 20% who are predisposed to vote one way or the other. It's the last 20% that decides the election. A quality candidate like Reagan can sway the ones predisposed to the opposite side. With enough information in the hands of the public from both sides of the fence, this looks like it's possible this time around.

The Democrats have abandoned the core moderate liberals and embraced the extreme left. These liberals feel abandoned. Blacks no longer have a black to vote for and the last 8 years have been miserable for them. Jews have had their homeland continuously belittled. Hispanics would like a Hispanic candidate with a good immigration message.

That and add to it that the Democrats can only offer more of the same failed policies and can only offer a liar who deserves hard time and an avowed socialist as candidates, this looks like an easy win thank everything for republicans.
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      02-15-2016, 12:27 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
So you can lower taxes and govt spending but at the same time make those programs better. Everybody is happy.
Kasich:

- thinks deporting 12M illegals is "ludicrous" and supports a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty) for those who are here.

- believes Obamacare "has made a real improvement in people's lives." He also accepted the Medicaid Expansion advocated by Obama, which has generated a significant unfunded future liability for OH.

He might as well be a democrat. He also is a bit light on any sort of depth, in his criticisms of other candidates plans.

He's the guy the democrats want the republicans to run, because they know he will fall apart under scrutiny - just like McCain.
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      02-15-2016, 12:58 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Kasich:

- thinks deporting 12M illegals is "ludicrous" and supports a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty) for those who are here.

- believes Obamacare "has made a real improvement in people's lives." He also accepted the Medicaid Expansion advocated by Obama, which has generated a significant unfunded future liability for OH.

He might as well be a democrat. He also is a bit light on any sort of depth, in his criticisms of other candidates plans.

He's the guy the democrats want the republicans to run, because they know he will fall apart under scrutiny - just like McCain.
+1

Bernie isn't the hope for the poor. He's their Armageddon. If he impliments his policies, the USA will go the way of Greece. No jobs, no taxes to pay for his plans, rioting, and austerity measures. The economy collapses. I don't understand how people can't see this.
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      02-15-2016, 01:00 PM   #186
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Kaisich is wishy washy. We don't need wishy washy.
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      02-15-2016, 01:09 PM   #187
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I agree (to some extent) with many of the comments here on a variety of issues; however....

When the house is fully engaged in fire and burning to the ground - what do you save and what do you let burn?
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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      02-15-2016, 01:21 PM   #188
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And...
I couldn't care less how rough and crude some people think he is, Trump is the only person I see as actually giving a crap about righting the ship for all. In my gut I think he wants to grab the bull by the horns and show people he's a doer and not just a yapper. A challenge of the highest order. That's what drives people like him.
Look what I got done!

Regarding those who think he'd chew gum and drink slurpees while meeting with the Queen of England, get a grip. This guy has sat with extremely powerful and wealthy people most of his adult life. Have you ever seen him on TMZ snorting coke or walking into a motel with a prostitute? No. You've never seen anything. Everyone and their dog has tried finding dirt on him. Stop letting loud and pushy verbage scare or insult you. If you don't like straight talk fine but I'm all ears the further this year moves along.
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      02-15-2016, 01:58 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo
And...
I couldn't care less how rough and crude some people think he is, Trump is the only person I see as actually giving a crap about righting the ship for all. In my gut I think he wants to grab the bull by the horns and show people he's a doer and not just a yapper. A challenge of the highest order. That's what drives people like him.
Look what I got done!

Regarding those who think he'd chew gum and drink slurpees while meeting with the Queen of England, get a grip. This guy has sat with extremely powerful and wealthy people most of his adult life. Have you ever seen him on TMZ snorting coke or walking into a motel with a prostitute? No. You've never seen anything. Everyone and their dog has tried finding dirt on him. Stop letting loud and pushy verbage scare or insult you. If you don't like straight talk fine but I'm all ears the further this year moves along.
From what I've seen, Trump is misquoted far more than any other candidate. It's gotten to the point that I don't believe it when people say "what he said..." - I always look up the direct quote. More often than not, what he said was accurate, when not spun by the talking heads on both the left and the right. And as I said before, we all need to remember he is a New Yorker at his core, and therefore says things like a New Yorker (e.g. Howard Stern, Bill Maher, etc.).
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      02-15-2016, 02:50 PM   #190
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Speaking of prostitutes.

http://feeds.nydailynews.com/~r/nydn...Kg/story01.htm

Oh my.
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      02-15-2016, 04:04 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
So you can lower taxes and govt spending but at the same time make those programs better. Everybody is happy.
Kasich:

- thinks deporting 12M illegals is "ludicrous" and supports a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty) for those who are here.

- believes Obamacare "has made a real improvement in people's lives." He also accepted the Medicaid Expansion advocated by Obama, which has generated a significant unfunded future liability for OH.

He might as well be a democrat. He also is a bit light on any sort of depth, in his criticisms of other candidates plans.

He's the guy the democrats want the republicans to run, because they know he will fall apart under scrutiny - just like McCain.
Pathway to working status as opposed to door to door breaking up a ton of families. It's the reality now. Criminals? Yes deport. Hard working? At this point let them pay fines and stay and contribute. Lock the border up for the future though.

Obamacare - he expanded Medicaid to supplement it since it was enacted. Get rid of it if you can. Otherwise work with it. I hope it gets rescinded though. Even as a liberal it's retarded. Penalties? Higher deductibles and copays? Just so you can say everyone has it now? It's ridiculous.

But lower taxes for economic growth I can do. Lol.
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      02-15-2016, 04:12 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
So you can lower taxes and govt spending but at the same time make those programs better. Everybody is happy.
Kasich:

- thinks deporting 12M illegals is "ludicrous" and supports a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty) for those who are here.

- believes Obamacare "has made a real improvement in people's lives." He also accepted the Medicaid Expansion advocated by Obama, which has generated a significant unfunded future liability for OH.

He might as well be a democrat. He also is a bit light on any sort of depth, in his criticisms of other candidates plans.

He's the guy the democrats want the republicans to run, because they know he will fall apart under scrutiny - just like McCain.
Pathway to working status as opposed to door to door breaking up a ton of families. It's the reality now. Criminals? Yes deport. Hard working? At this point let them pay fines and stay and contribute. Lock the border up for the future though.

Obamacare - he expanded Medicaid to supplement it since it was enacted. Get rid of it if you can. Otherwise work with it. I hope it gets rescinded though. Even as a liberal it's retarded. Penalties? Higher deductibles and copays? Just so you can say everyone has it now? It's ridiculous.

But lower taxes for economic growth I can do. Lol.
I disagree about letting illegals stay. They broke the law, and there is a consequences - families or not. If Americans break the law and go to jail, their families are separated as well - illegals have the opportunity to leave and take their families with them.

Wages would rise, social costs would drop, our environment would improve, and their native countries could benefit as well. Large-scale deportations were done after WW2 (millions), so we know it can work.

Medicaid expansion was a bribe to get states on board with Obamacare. States that took it committed themselves to keeping it even when the federal subsidies run out - they will see massive state tax increases. Many states did not take the assistance, and they don't have the liability.
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      02-15-2016, 04:35 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I disagree about letting illegals stay. They broke the law, and there is a consequences - families or not. If Americans break the law and go to jail, their families are separated as well - illegals have the opportunity to leave and take their families with them.

Wages would rise, social costs would drop, our environment would improve, and their native countries could benefit as well. Large-scale deportations were done after WW2 (millions), so we know it can work.

Medicaid expansion was a bribe to get states on board with Obamacare. States that took it committed themselves to keeping it even when the federal subsidies run out - they will see massive state tax increases. Many states did not take the assistance, and they don't have the liability.
I understand how you feel on this. I've posted my plan in other sections of the forum and I will do so here:

1. I'd announce, without warning, at 6 am one day that the borders are closed and back it up with the military.

2. All illegals would have 30 days to present themselves and their family to an immigration center for proper documentation and presentation with biometric identification. I would give these individuals a pathway to citizenship IF and only IF they have no criminal record. Any criminal record and you are OUT.

3. On day 30 +1 hr any illegal who was not in a coma in a hospital would be immediately deported. Flights to begin that day. No more mucking about.

4. The borders stay militarized for 10 years.
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      02-15-2016, 04:44 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
So you can lower taxes and govt spending but at the same time make those programs better. Everybody is happy.
Kasich:

- thinks deporting 12M illegals is "ludicrous" and supports a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty) for those who are here.

- believes Obamacare "has made a real improvement in people's lives." He also accepted the Medicaid Expansion advocated by Obama, which has generated a significant unfunded future liability for OH.

He might as well be a democrat. He also is a bit light on any sort of depth, in his criticisms of other candidates plans.

He's the guy the democrats want the republicans to run, because they know he will fall apart under scrutiny - just like McCain.
Pathway to working status as opposed to door to door breaking up a ton of families. It's the reality now. Criminals? Yes deport. Hard working? At this point let them pay fines and stay and contribute. Lock the border up for the future though.

Obamacare - he expanded Medicaid to supplement it since it was enacted. Get rid of it if you can. Otherwise work with it. I hope it gets rescinded though. Even as a liberal it's retarded. Penalties? Higher deductibles and copays? Just so you can say everyone has it now? It's ridiculous.

But lower taxes for economic growth I can do. Lol.
I disagree about letting illegals stay. They broke the law, and there is a consequences - families or not. If Americans break the law and go to jail, their families are separated as well - illegals have the opportunity to leave and take their families with them.

Wages would rise, social costs would drop, our environment would improve, and their native countries could benefit as well. Large-scale deportations were done after WW2 (millions), so we know it can work.

Medicaid expansion was a bribe to get states on board with Obamacare. States that took it committed themselves to keeping it even when the federal subsidies run out - they will see massive state tax increases. Many states did not take the assistance, and they don't have the liability.
How would wages rise? They take jobs that others do not want. How would social costs drop?

Where do you live?
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      02-15-2016, 04:53 PM   #195
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How would wages rise? They take jobs that others do not want. How would social costs drop?

Where do you live?
You might be surprised by how fast many of those "don't want" jobs would be filled by American citizens if they were available. It's a racket on both ends as it stands.
Personally, I'd put my kids out mowing or making burgers in a heart beat. That's the problem with young people of this e world. Many haven't a clue what a hard days work even means. Take their devices from them and they might actually freeze motionless or walk into a wall and try to keep walking like a whined up beagle toy.
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      02-15-2016, 04:53 PM   #196
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So much for land of the free.
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      02-15-2016, 04:58 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
How would wages rise? They take jobs that others do not want. How would social costs drop?

Where do you live?
You might be surprised by how fast many of those "don't want" jobs would be filled by American citizens if they were available. It's a racket on both ends as it stands.
Personally, I'd put my kids out mowing or making burgers in a heart beat. That's the problem with young people of this e world. Many haven't a clue what a hard days work even means. Take their devices from them and they might actually freeze motionless or walk into a wall and try to keep walking like a wind up beagle toy.
Doesn't mean wages will rise. There will always be someone willing to do it for less. That's not the only thing they do though. I love hot dog stands lol.

I agree with what you would instill in your kids. Everyone needs to learn hard work.
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      02-15-2016, 05:19 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86
I'm all for Bernie. He is hope for the less fortunate. Hillary is a liar and just looking for a promotion.

On the other hand, I would love to see Kasich win the nominee for the GOP. Conservative and not bat shit crazy. He's the only one who is fiscally conservative and has acknowledged that programs need to be streamlined and more efficient.
So you can lower taxes and govt spending but at the same time make those programs better. Everybody is happy.
Kasich:

- thinks deporting 12M illegals is "ludicrous" and supports a "pathway to citizenship" (amnesty) for those who are here.

- believes Obamacare "has made a real improvement in people's lives." He also accepted the Medicaid Expansion advocated by Obama, which has generated a significant unfunded future liability for OH.

He might as well be a democrat. He also is a bit light on any sort of depth, in his criticisms of other candidates plans.

He's the guy the democrats want the republicans to run, because they know he will fall apart under scrutiny - just like McCain.
Pathway to working status as opposed to door to door breaking up a ton of families. It's the reality now. Criminals? Yes deport. Hard working? At this point let them pay fines and stay and contribute. Lock the border up for the future though.

Obamacare - he expanded Medicaid to supplement it since it was enacted. Get rid of it if you can. Otherwise work with it. I hope it gets rescinded though. Even as a liberal it's retarded. Penalties? Higher deductibles and copays? Just so you can say everyone has it now? It's ridiculous.

But lower taxes for economic growth I can do. Lol.
I disagree about letting illegals stay. They broke the law, and there is a consequences - families or not. If Americans break the law and go to jail, their families are separated as well - illegals have the opportunity to leave and take their families with them.

Wages would rise, social costs would drop, our environment would improve, and their native countries could benefit as well. Large-scale deportations were done after WW2 (millions), so we know it can work.

Medicaid expansion was a bribe to get states on board with Obamacare. States that took it committed themselves to keeping it even when the federal subsidies run out - they will see massive state tax increases. Many states did not take the assistance, and they don't have the liability.
How would wages rise? They take jobs that others do not want. How would social costs drop?

Where do you live?
They take jobs and artificially depress wages in those jobs. Employers would have to find US citizens to take those jobs, and would need to pay a market rate to get them. Those citizens would be employed and come off welfare. That's how supply and demand work.

Prices would certainly rise. But the reduction in social costs would drop significantly. For example, Marriott Hotels has long advocated for amnesty, as they hire many illegal maids to clean rooms, and escape paying benefits, etc. Perhaps they should pay a reasonable American wage, instead of displacing American jobs and letting the rest of us pay for their employees healthcare?

Social cost - we wouldn't be paying for their healthcare when they come to emergency rooms. We wouldn't be paying to deliver their children. We wouldn't be paying to incarcerate them (30% of California's prison population is illegals), educate them, and a host of other costs. California is bankrupting their state healthcare system ($1B+ shortfall) to create clinics and provide "access" to care for the illegal population.

Imagine if 12M people left the country - traffic would ease, pollution would ease, water, electric, and other utilities would not be so pressed.

But instead - we have politicians telling us we have to have amnesty, because they are "doing the jobs Americans won't." That's utter bullshit in the first place, and even if it were true - does anyone think they will keep doing those jobs once they have increased access to welfare? I completely disagree with the entire premise, and any politician who takes that stance; it's nonsense.
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