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      06-12-2016, 06:11 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
I seem to also remember Benghazi was a spontaneous protest to a YouTube video and a Muslim American army Captain shouting god is great in arabic while he shoots his fellow soldiers was workplace violence. So was two Muslims who train with assault rifles, download isis stuff, are part of a terror cell, and go to their job xmas party and shoot it up. And you call me conspiracy theory guy?
You aren't a conspiracy theorist, you are just anti-Obama, anti-Democrat, pro-Gun, pro-Redneck and you only see things from one side. You're not a conspiracy theorist, but you're incredibly biased.
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      06-12-2016, 06:15 PM   #68
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Just insane!
This is hate doing what hate does!
When will people learn
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      06-12-2016, 06:27 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by e90m305 View Post
You aren't a conspiracy theorist, you are just anti-Obama, anti-Democrat, pro-Gun, pro-Redneck and you only see things from one side. You're not a conspiracy theorist, but you're incredibly biased.
This isn't an opinion or viewpoint. It's granite unbiased facts like water is wet. The first 3 assumptions on my viewpoints are correct. The redneck one isn't. I'm decidedly anti redneck lol. I'm from the NYC area. Hate country music, religion, drawls, pickups, line dancing, or the expression "wotch dis". But none of that has anything to do with facts.

Hate people who hate haters too. Hating something makes you try to fix the problem. It's the ones who do this destructively not constructively that have the problem.

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      06-12-2016, 06:31 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m305 View Post
You aren't a conspiracy theorist, you are just anti-Obama, anti-Democrat, pro-Gun, pro-Redneck and you only see things from one side. You're not a conspiracy theorist, but you're incredibly biased.
And your post proves that you are also very biased.
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      06-12-2016, 06:39 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
And your post proves that you are also very biased.
That's not how it works with liberals... if you are against the agenda, you are a white inbred hick... with little regard to tolerance and can be essentially peed on at Trump events... if however, you are with the agenda, it is ok to accept and tolerate everyone, and watch fellow citizens die... sick and disgusting...
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      06-12-2016, 06:43 PM   #72
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The way it works with liberals is the truth doesn't exist if it doesn't fit the agenda. It's ok to add ridiculous amounts of spin to make it fit their narrow view. Ex depends on what your definition of is is. Or calling illegal aliens undocumented immigrants. At the same time for liberals, the means is justified by the end. Ex lie to the press and people to pass obamacare, then be so narcissistic that you brag about it.

Last edited by Fundguy1; 06-12-2016 at 06:48 PM..
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      06-12-2016, 06:47 PM   #73
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Btw, I feel extreme sympathy for the people, family, and friends who lost loved ones. Disagreement with a lifestyle should be just that. A disagreement. I respect them and their choices though even if I disagree. I only ask the same in return. At the same time, those who wish to impose a death sentence on someone for a different lifestyle have a name. They're called radical Islamic fundamentalists. A term they partially use to describe themselves but one the current administration will not use at all.
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      06-12-2016, 06:54 PM   #74
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      06-12-2016, 06:57 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
That's not how it works with liberals... if you are against the agenda, you are a white inbred hick... with little regard to tolerance and can be essentially peed on at Trump events... if however, you are with the agenda, it is ok to accept and tolerate everyone, and watch fellow citizens die... sick and disgusting...
Good point there. If you disagree with liberals then you must be some sort of red neck hick. Here is what cracks me up about that... When shit hits the fan liberals are quick to cower behind our men in uniform, specifically out special forces. Yet these fuck tarts seem to not realize that a large percentage of our special ops guys are good ol Southern boys.
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      06-12-2016, 07:26 PM   #76
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Yeah, anytime I disagree, automatically they think that I think:
God created the earth in 7 days
I'm a birther
I'm prejudiced
I'm racist
I hate poor people
I'm anti lgbt
Etc etc etc.

The flip side I don't assume they are:
Living on purpose of handouts
drug addicts
communists/socialists/nazis
Vegan tree huggers
Etc etc.

I let their comments speak for themselves. As for the list of assumptions they make about me, they're incorrect and incorrect for 90+% of the republicans out there. It's just easy to put one of these labels on us so they can summarily dismiss our opinions instead of using logic, reason, and deduction to reach a conclusion that is blatant and opposing their agenda. This is just the Gerd mentality and lethargy most liberals exemplify when it comes to controversial issues.
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      06-12-2016, 07:35 PM   #77
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Been keeping up with this since 2am when it started - didn't really sleep. They've only released 7 names of the 50+ confirmed deceased.

Thankfully no one that I know yet, though I'm not super close with many in the area I do have acquaintances that frequent that place so I'm bound to know someone.

My business partners Gucci rep/concierge is rumored to be a victim, possibly his partner/friend and a coworker as well...

Ugh, what a crappy day... I'm going to bed. :\
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      06-12-2016, 07:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Democrats love avoiding the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room. Again blame is on guns and reason for attack is due to hate against gays. Instead on pressing on the obvious fact that this was another radical Muslim dipshit, doing what they do best, and that is destroy life.
Just like Republicans aka the GOP love to BLOCK legislation aka LAWS that would have prevented suspected TERRORISTS from purchasing guns legally!
Pubs have always been deep in the pockets of the NRA.
So that some of you who may not be versed in American Politics and Laws are clear, read this very insightful yet disturbing article here:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gop-block...ts-buying-guns

For the 'click-impaired':

Quote:
Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aims to stop suspected terrorists from legally buying guns, on Thursday. The vote came a day after at least 14 people were killed during the San Bernardino massacre in California by two suspects, including a woman said to have pledged allegiance to ISIS.

Forty-five senators voted for the bill and 54 voted against it. One Democrat, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, and one Republican, Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois, crossed party lines.

The measure would have denied people on the terrorist watch list the ability to buy guns.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who sponsored the legislation, argued that former President George W. Bush initially proposed the legislation in 2007, and the Obama administration also supports it.

“If you need proof that Congress is a hostage to the gun lobby, look no further than today’s vote blocking a bill to prevent known or suspected terrorists from buying guns and explosives,” she said. “Congress has been paralyzed by the gun lobby for years, while more and more Americans are killed in mass shootings. The carnage won’t stop until Congress finds the courage to stand up to the gun lobby and protect the nation.”

The NRA did not respond to a request on Friday for comment. But the gun rights lobby group told MSBC last month it wants to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the terrorist list are are afforded their constitutional right to due process.

However, the bill would allow people to legally challenge a denial by the Justice Department to purchase a firearm, if they believe they were mistakenly placed on the terrorist watchlist.

The GOP-controlled Senate refusal to pass new gun control measures came weeks after the Washington Post reported that suspected terrorists had successfully purchased more than 2,000 guns from American dealers between 2004 and 2014, even though law enforcement is notified whenever someone on the FBI’s watchlist attempts to purchase a firearm.


GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying guns!Also on Thursday, the Senate failed to pass another bill that would have expanded background checks to gun show and online firearms sales. The measure would also prevents convicted felons and the mentally ill from having access to weapons.

The four Republican senators who are running for president — Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham — all voted against both gun control measures.


Jessica Mackler, president of the American Bridge 21st Century, a Democratic group, blasted the presidential hopefuls, saying that Americans should “keep in mind how their representatives addressed gun violence: cowering in inaction in the face of repeated, senseless tragedies in our communities.”
Although I don't owe anyone here or abroad any details on my beliefs or possessions or former employment, I own 2 very capable handguns for protection of myself and family should that unlikely event ever arise. Here in TX, I could easily obtain a AR-15 or more if I was so inclined. The thing is, for what? Oh that's right... To protect my family from would-be assailants who just happen to have assault rifles in their possession. In all my previous years of law enforcement and the plethora of local, state and federal officers I still know and talk with including family members, I've never heard of such a case where a family or individual was "protecting himself, home or family from armed individuals using assault weapons". We're not talking about if you just happen to be involved with Drug Cartels or Criminal Organizations of course. So the statistics simply are what they are. These particular weapons are made specifically to take out or kill many human beings at once.
Let's not turn a blind eye to the above facts and the fact that Republicans specifically BLOCKED laws that would make Americans much safer.
Ignorance is bliss.
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      06-12-2016, 07:39 PM   #79
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I'll wait for a legitimate response as to why this law was blocked by Republicans and also if you agree with the legislation and why or not?
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      06-12-2016, 07:42 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigymix View Post
Been keeping up with this since 2am when it started - didn't really sleep. They've only released 7 names of the 50+ confirmed deceased.

Thankfully no one that I know yet, though I'm not super close with many in the area I do have acquaintances that frequent that place so I'm bound to know someone.

My business partners Gucci rep/concierge is rumored to be a victim, possibly his partner/friend and a coworker as well...

Ugh, what a crappy day... I'm going to bed. :\
Most unfortunate... Hopefully not. But an epic tragic loss non the less.
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      06-12-2016, 07:48 PM   #81
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Media reports I read indicate the shooter was removed from the terrorist watch list, which he was on previously. Is that not the case?
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      06-12-2016, 07:54 PM   #82
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Media reports I read indicate the shooter was removed from the terrorist watch list, which he was on previously. Is that not the case?
I read this also. NOT that it would have mattered unfortunately. He STILL would have been able to purchase the guns legitimately as the current very lax gun laws here are.
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      06-12-2016, 07:55 PM   #83
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To me for some reason this whole story doesn't add up-

Guy on terror list.
Guy off terrorist list.
Guy gets class d weapons license.
Guy buys guns legally.
Guy storms club w one, maybe 2 gubs and 100s of people dont do anything?

I am quite confused about the whole thing.
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      06-12-2016, 07:57 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Democrats love avoiding the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room. Again blame is on guns and reason for attack is due to hate against gays. Instead on pressing on the obvious fact that this was another radical Muslim dipshit, doing what they do best, and that is destroy life.
Just like Republicans aka the GOP love to BLOCK legislation aka LAWS that would have prevented suspected TERRORISTS from purchasing guns legally!
Pubs have always been deep in the pockets of the NRA.
So that some of you who may not be versed in American Politics and Laws are clear, read this very insightful yet disturbing article here:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gop-block...ts-buying-guns

For the 'click-impaired':

Quote:
Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aims to stop suspected terrorists from legally buying guns, on Thursday. The vote came a day after at least 14 people were killed during the San Bernardino massacre in California by two suspects, including a woman said to have pledged allegiance to ISIS.

Forty-five senators voted for the bill and 54 voted against it. One Democrat, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, and one Republican, Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois, crossed party lines.

The measure would have denied people on the terrorist watch list the ability to buy guns.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who sponsored the legislation, argued that former President George W. Bush initially proposed the legislation in 2007, and the Obama administration also supports it.

“If you need proof that Congress is a hostage to the gun lobby, look no further than today’s vote blocking a bill to prevent known or suspected terrorists from buying guns and explosives,” she said. “Congress has been paralyzed by the gun lobby for years, while more and more Americans are killed in mass shootings. The carnage won’t stop until Congress finds the courage to stand up to the gun lobby and protect the nation.”

The NRA did not respond to a request on Friday for comment. But the gun rights lobby group told MSBC last month it wants to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the terrorist list are are afforded their constitutional right to due process.

However, the bill would allow people to legally challenge a denial by the Justice Department to purchase a firearm, if they believe they were mistakenly placed on the terrorist watchlist.

The GOP-controlled Senate refusal to pass new gun control measures came weeks after the Washington Post reported that suspected terrorists had successfully purchased more than 2,000 guns from American dealers between 2004 and 2014, even though law enforcement is notified whenever someone on the FBIÂ’s watchlist attempts to purchase a firearm.


GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying guns!Also on Thursday, the Senate failed to pass another bill that would have expanded background checks to gun show and online firearms sales. The measure would also prevents convicted felons and the mentally ill from having access to weapons.

The four Republican senators who are running for president — Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham — all voted against both gun control measures.


Jessica Mackler, president of the American Bridge 21st Century, a Democratic group, blasted the presidential hopefuls, saying that Americans should “keep in mind how their representatives addressed gun violence: cowering in inaction in the face of repeated, senseless tragedies in our communities.”
Although I don't owe anyone here or abroad any details on my beliefs or possessions or former employment, I own 2 very capable handguns for protection of myself and family should that unlikely event ever arise. Here in TX, I could easily obtain a AR-15 or more if I was so inclined. The thing is, for what? Oh that's right... To protect my family from would-be assailants who just happen to have assault rifles in their possession. In all my previous years of law enforcement and the plethora of local, state and federal officers I still know and talk with including family members, I've never heard of such a case where a family or individual was "protecting himself, home or family from armed individuals using assault weapons". We're not talking about if you just happen to be involved with Drug Cartels or Criminal Organizations of course. So the statistics simply are what they are. These particular weapons are made specifically to take out or kill many human beings at once.
Let's not turn a blind eye to the above facts and the fact that Republicans specifically BLOCKED laws that would make Americans much safer.
Ignorance is bliss.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-gop-...rticle/2000231

1. Senate Democrats put this legislation into an Obamacare Repeal bill they didn't want passed (Obama was going to veto the bill regardless), because they wanted Republicans to look weak on terror to counter polls showing Americans think Democrats/Obama are weak on terror.

2. The legislation did nothing better than the laws we have on the books already; you can't buy a gun if you are on the terror watch list.

3. The legislation kept the list a secret, and the govt did not have any limits on methods to challenge a ban, time to respond, or anything else. As Ted Kennedy was previously on the list, it's not impossible that the list could be wrong.

4. Republican John Cornyn proposed legislation that put the burden of proof on the govt (vs. burden of innocence being on civilian), but dems wouldn't vote for it.

Note: when you hear of something like this that sounds too incredible to be true, it usually is. And this can happen on both sides of the political fence.
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      06-12-2016, 07:58 PM   #85
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I'll wait for a legitimate response as to why this law was blocked by Republicans and also if you agree with the legislation and why or not?
Laws like that were some of the first things that came to mind while I was watching the FBI rep in Orlando state that he had twice previously been the subject of their investigations, going so far as interviewing him, because of claims of extremism and affiliation with a known terrorist.

If I get a little too rowdy after a bunch of drinks on a plane I can be added to the no-fly list with EASE.... but this guy gets investigated by the FBI not once, but TWICE for having terroristic ties and he can still jump into Bucks Guns & Ammo and buy up whatever he wants?

If you've done something with enough merit to have any 3 character agency look into your history, friends, family, acquaintances, internet activity...and even INTERVIEW you, you need to be permanently relieved of your right to legally bare arms.

I understand them saying that he was never officially 'charged' or the investigation never turned any credible info -- but the fact of the matter is that he came across your radar TWICE for similar characteristics -- that's a red fucking flag if I ever saw one. He had no business (legally) owning any guns.

Would that have prevented this? Maybe... maybe not, but it probably would've made it that much less likely.
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      06-12-2016, 08:00 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
To me for some reason this whole story doesn't add up-

Guy on terror list.
Guy off terrorist list.
Guy gets class d weapons license.
Guy buys guns legally.
Guy storms club w one, maybe 2 gubs and 100s of people dont do anything?

I am quite confused about the whole thing.
AFAIK he's worked with the security company and thus likely had his license and weapons since 2007 - the FBI wasn't interested in him until 2012 and 2014.

However, he was able to purchase guns this week, after the FBI snooping on him - which is what I think needs to be severely reevaluated.
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      06-12-2016, 08:07 PM   #87
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"Assault weapons" is somewhat of a misnomer - they are actually a different form of hunting rifle. They are very rarely used in any crime (something like 2%), but banning them is seen as paving the way to banning all guns:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-handgun-bans/
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      06-12-2016, 08:09 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
Media reports I read indicate the shooter was removed from the terrorist watch list, which he was on previously. Is that not the case?
I read this also. NOT that it would have mattered unfortunately. He STILL would have been able to purchase the guns legitimately as the current very lax gun laws here are.
Ok, so that particular legislation would not have prevented this tragedy...

However to answer your question, my concerns about this legislation are:

1. Accuracy / reasonableness of the list - this guy wasn't on it and it stands to reason others should be but aren't and some are on it that shouldn't be. If we are going to take a step like this (i.e. Restrict people under investigation but not convicted) the list better be a good one. I know it will never be perfect but I'm not sure I have much confidence in it now.

2. Also, if we take a step like this, why limit it to gun purchases? How about preventing them from buying knives / other weapons, chemicals that can be used to make bombs, even cars that can be driven into people? Maybe we should force their iPhones to remain unlocked and subject to government surveillance. Certainly they shouldn't be allowed to receive any government benefits or vote. In other words it shouldn't be only about guns but rather about the restricting the people on the list from harming others in any way we can.

If there is a reasonable way to address #1 and the provisions in #2 were included, I'd be ok with it.
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