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      01-30-2017, 10:58 AM   #309
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The order is a total fuck up. It accomplishes nothing and causes problems for everyone.

Terrorists are having a field day - the US just gave them a ton of free propaganda and legitimized their point of view. This very act gives them fuel to show that the US are the bad guys and they are fighting a righteous battle against the American tyrants.

Travelers are stuck in limbo unable to enter the US. Legal residents of the USA, unable to return and others not able to come through legal and fully vetted means.

This is another terrible idea from Trump - this one is by far the worst one yet. The Wall is a dumb waste of money but in the end doesn't really affect anyone negatively. This one directly affects many people and only in an adverse way.
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      01-30-2017, 10:59 AM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
Let me ask you something. What were you saying after Obama basically did the same thing in 2011? Did you get on this board or FB or anywhere and complain? It would be interesting to hear what the left did. My guess is nothing because all liberals believed Obama could do no wrong. But, when Trump does it, he is the most horrible person on the planet. The double standard is quite remarkable.
1. It wasn't the same. The latest order is far more sweeping where Obama's was more targeted towards a specific problem.
2. This part is far more important. NOT EVERYTHING OBAMA DID WAS RIGHT. It's possible to like him as a President yet not agree with everything he did. That doesn't excuse what is happening now. Also, what is happening now, doesn't excuse what has happened in the past.
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      01-30-2017, 11:01 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The order is a total fuck up. It accomplishes nothing and causes problems for everyone.

Terrorists are having a field day - the US just gave them a ton of free propaganda and legitimized their point of view. This very act gives them fuel to show that the US are the bad guys and they are fighting a righteous battle against the American tyrants.

Travelers are stuck in limbo unable to enter the US. Legal residents of the USA, unable to return and others not able to come through legal and fully vetted means.

Another terrible idea from Trump - this one is by far the worst one yet. The Wall is a dumb waste of money but in the end doesn't really affect anyone negatively. This one directly affects many people and only in an adverse way.
Come on, this gives them more hate or reason to hate the western world. Dude, they hate us enough to already want to kill us.
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      01-30-2017, 11:02 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
That's the thing, there is no leak. If we had terrorist attacks in the US being committed by refugees and it's becoming a trend, sure yeah we'd have a leak but that's not the case.

This will accomplish pretty much nothing except for appease those who live in rural bumfuck nowhere who are afraid that a refugee will attack their town of 500 people.
Actually, terrorists attacking small towns is a scenario that the government is dreading.

Generally, terrorists go after high population soft targets for the shock value. But those are far easier to monitor and catch the terrorists.

If you have some terrorist start doing hit and runs on small towns or do like the Beltway Sniper did years back... the number of bodies and terror is going to escalate far higher. The government does not have the assets to start covering every where.
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      01-30-2017, 11:04 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
That's the thing, there is no leak. If we had terrorist attacks in the US being committed by refugees and it's becoming a trend, sure yeah we'd have a leak but that's not the case.

This will accomplish pretty much nothing except for appease those who live in rural bumfuck nowhere who are afraid that a refugee will attack their town of 500 people.
One quick question: Can you absolutely guarantee that no terrorist has slipped into the country through the refugee program?

I know the answer.

It has been a stated goal of terrorists to use refugees as cover to enter the country. Further, it is a method that has been successfully in Europe.

This is for 4 months, not forever.
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      01-30-2017, 11:07 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
One quick question: Can you absolutely guarantee that no terrorist has slipped into the country through the refugee program?

I know the answer.

It has been a stated goal of terrorists to use refugees as cover to enter the country. Further, it is a method that has been successfully in Europe.

This is for 4 months, not forever.
No, something like that is impossible to guarantee. Plus, why would a terrorist want to sneak in as a refugee? The process takes several years and even then, it's likely improbable you're even approved.

Getting refugee status here is very, very, very difficult. It's not like you fill out some form and we just let you into the country.

Their current tactic of radicalizing actual citizens seems to be working well enough for them.
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      01-30-2017, 11:07 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
And another media site that is promoting false information....

It has also been noted widely that the predominantly Muslim countries which are excluded from the ban are nations where Donald Trump has business interests.

The list was set by Congress on the direction of Obama in 2015.... or does that matter to the butthurt media and liberals?
That list wasn't created to be a muslim ban though, which is what it turned into. While I agree, Gizmodo is an opinion blog by the same parent company that owns Jalopnik, the core of the story came from the Sydney Herald.

We kept a 15 year old from going to space camp.

Slow clap for America. Mission accomplished.
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      01-30-2017, 11:07 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Come on, this gives them more hate or reason to hate the western world. Dude, they hate us enough to already want to kill us.
That is not a good argument.

It's not about placating the existing terrorists and haters. It's about turning moderates into extremists because of the things we're doing. With this, it gives them more fuel to generate American hatred. The ban has the opposite effect of what it is intending to do.
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      01-30-2017, 11:11 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
That is not a good argument.

It's not about placating the existing terrorists and haters. It's about turning moderates into extremists because of the things we're doing. With this, it gives them more fuel to generate American hatred. The ban has the opposite effect of what it is intending to do.
Exactly this. People that already hate us, will continue. This just turns people that are on the fence against us.
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      01-30-2017, 11:12 AM   #318
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Why are people so surprised about this? You finally have a president who actually says what he was going to do when he was campaigning!!! This NEVER happens with politicians. They say all these things to be elected and 1/2 the time they never come through on their promises. Throughout the whole campaign, he talked about closing the borders to take a better look at our processes.

Now, all of a sudden the Dems are crying (literally Schumer. Did he cry in 2011?) when this was already promised. Doesn't matter what Trump does, people will always complain. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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      01-30-2017, 11:13 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
That is not a good argument.

It's not about placating the existing terrorists and haters. It's about turning moderates into extremists because of the things we're doing. With this, it gives them more fuel to generate American hatred. The ban has the opposite effect of what it is intending to do.
I'm sorry but this is untrue. I cannot think of a greater waste of time, (besides OT ) than worrying about how people feel about you if you are doing the right thing. If they are going to hate us, nothing we do can stem that tide. Nothing. It makes more sense to do the right thing for the country and it's citizens than worrying about the possibility of garnering more haters. That will occur organically regardless of our actions.
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      01-30-2017, 11:17 AM   #320
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      01-30-2017, 11:18 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
That list wasn't created to be a muslim ban though, which is what it turned into. While I agree, Gizmodo is an opinion blog by the same parent company that owns Jalopnik, the core of the story came from the Sydney Herald.

We kept a 15 year old from going to space camp.

Slow clap for America. Mission accomplished.
Where in Trump's EO does it state Muslim Ban?

Or since Obama and Congress put the list together in 2015, was it a Muslim Ban then?

How about Obama's 6 month ban on Iraqi's back in 2011? Specifically because of 2 terrorists that came in on Visas.

And did you see the video of the 10 year old ISIS kid beheading that Palestinian? And he wasn't the only one.

Now if you have a genie or crystal ball that can 100% vet these people, then by all means you need to step up and let the government know.
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      01-30-2017, 11:19 AM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
Why are people so surprised about this? You finally have a president who actually says what he was going to do when he was campaigning!!! This NEVER happens with politicians. They say all these things to be elected and 1/2 the time they never come through on their promises. Throughout the whole campaign, he talked about closing the borders to take a better look at our processes.

Now, all of a sudden the Dems are crying (literally Schumer. Did he cry in 2011?) when this was already promised. Doesn't matter what Trump does, people will always complain. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
The fact that most of the stuff he's promised is crazy means that it's a good thing that we have him going about doing crazy things? How does that justify anything?

Some of his points are worth fighting for - like American jobs and such. But most of the other things are dumb and some are outright crazy conspiracy theories.
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      01-30-2017, 11:26 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The fact that most of the stuff he's promised is crazy means that it's a good thing that we have him going about doing crazy things? How does that justify anything?

Some of his points are worth fighting for - like American jobs and such. But most of the other things are dumb and some are outright crazy conspiracy theories.
Everything he doing is what america used to do before globalist took us over in the 40s
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      01-30-2017, 11:30 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I'm sorry but this is untrue. I cannot think of a greater waste of time, (besides OT ) than worrying about how people feel about you if you are doing the right thing. If they are going to hate us, nothing we do can stem that tide. Nothing. It makes more sense to do the right thing for the country and it's citizens than worrying about the possibility of garnering more haters. That will occur organically regardless of our actions.
No, there's no need to generate more hatred by your actions. You keep kicking someone who's already on the ground, you'll turn anyone into hating you.

People who once supported America will turn against America as they have no reason to like America anymore.
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      01-30-2017, 11:31 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
Terrorists are having a field day - the US just gave them a ton of free propaganda and legitimized their point of view. This very act gives them fuel to show that the US are the bad guys and they are fighting a righteous battle against the American tyrants.
Knew Z K was from San Fran before even looking.

Hey mind controlled Leftie, were you this upset when Obama did essentially the same thing?

"President Obama himself barred large groups of immigrants from entering the U.S. at least six times out of national security concerns, according to a review last June by the Washington Examiner. In 2011, the administration suspended refugee processing from Iraq for six months to make sure terrorists weren't exploiting the program."

http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...t-he-promised/
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      01-30-2017, 11:32 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post
No, there's no need to generate more hatred by your actions. You keep kicking someone who's already on the ground, you'll turn anyone into hating you.

People who once supported America will turn against America as they have no reason to like America anymore.
Nations hated us when we offer aid so nothing has change.
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      01-30-2017, 11:33 AM   #327
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Everything he doing is what america used to do before globalist took us over in the 40s
I very much doubt you were alive 70 years ago.

In case you've missed the last 70 years, the world is a much different place than it was back then.
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      01-30-2017, 11:34 AM   #328
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I very much doubt you were alive 70 years ago.

In case you've missed the last 70 years, the world is a much different place than it was back then.
Yeah, it's been completely f'd up by the brain dead leftist ideology. We're working on that now though, so sit back and enjoy a nice cup of stfu.
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      01-30-2017, 11:35 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
Where in Trump's EO does it state Muslim Ban?

Or since Obama and Congress put the list together in 2015, was it a Muslim Ban then?

How about Obama's 6 month ban on Iraqi's back in 2011? Specifically because of 2 terrorists that came in on Visas.

And did you see the video of the 10 year old ISIS kid beheading that Palestinian? And he wasn't the only one.

Now if you have a genie or crystal ball that can 100% vet these people, then by all means you need to step up and let the government know.
Ok... here we go.

It doesn't say on the EO that it's a muslim ban. But when you go on record (debate) and say that's what you are going to do, then ask Giuliani to draft a "muslim ban", but he has the foresight to not call it a Muslim ban so it won't immediately get thrown out as unconstitutional.... guess what it is? A Muslim ban.

I've already addressed the Obama 2011 thing to another person. But I'll rehash. I like Obama, but it's possible to not like everything he did. I don't think that was the right play back then, and it certainly didn't improve with age.

I don't watch beheading videos, but I can't recall the last time someone from Iran came to the US and beheaded someone.

Finally no, I don't have a crystal ball and I don't think there is a way to 100% vet everyone. Should we improve the vetting process? OK, we should always be looking at way to make something better, but this doesn't require a shutdown. What I do know is that this ban does literally nothing but makes us look scared and weak, while unfairly penalizing certain individuals. Like a 15 year old trying to go to fucking space camp.

Space Camp.
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      01-30-2017, 11:36 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Knew Z K was from San Fran before even looking.

Hey mind controlled Leftie, were you this upset when Obama did essentially the same thing?

"President Obama himself barred large groups of immigrants from entering the U.S. at least six times out of national security concerns, according to a review last June by the Washington Examiner. In 2011, the administration suspended refugee processing from Iraq for six months to make sure terrorists weren't exploiting the program."

http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...t-he-promised/
Hello Mr. Rightie, how's coal mining going for you?

He stopped processing refugees is different than an outright ban that leaves people stranded on planes traveling into the country. Even then, it didn't ban legal residents of the US to return to the country as this order does.
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