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      01-29-2017, 03:22 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Are you smoking stuff again?

Would you mind explaining to the Sunni's and Shia that they are one and the same?

Then can you do the same across in India and Pakistan with the Hindu/ Sihks against Muslim.

Oh and of course we have Protestants against Catholics.

Religion is the sum of all (pretty much all) world strife and wars both historical and modern.

Even within the Christian faith it's totally fucked up.

Just look at these fuckwit born again Christians and abortion etc.

Yep just ban all religions and shoot all radicals no matter the faith.

Sorted.
I have no idea how those 4 points are contentious. Underneath we are all one and the same. No one is born with a religion and its beliefs, they are learnt.

And his first point is that they served us well through our tribal periods, they don't serve any purpose now. I agree, religion now does more harm than good, for centuries it was the other way around. Time to stop. People now have the ability to make their own decision to be moral and kind to their fellow man if they choose to. They don't need the guidance from above for that, which incidentally never came from above unless I missed someone proving the existence of god.

Trump favouring Christians over Muslims is one further step down the wrong path.
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      01-29-2017, 03:35 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Christians are not strapping up with ISIS Muslims are. So he has a valid point.
I'm not saying we don't need the extra vetting (we do), but you can't simply draft up an executive order that causes panic like that, without proper instruction to customs/tsa. Legal green card holders, students home for winter break, army personnel etc were denied travel / stranded / detained due to all of the confusion. Trump tends to fly by the seat of his pants, without considering the ramifications.

I fully support the vetting but unfortunately many trump supporters are under the impression that muslims = terrorists, creating a very hostile environment for the 1 billion plus peaceful and law abiding followers. Many US muslims are terrified right now, uncertain about their future in a country that is now looking at them sideways. That is not what we stand for as a country, we are better than that
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      01-29-2017, 03:47 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by thebmwjunkiee View Post
I'm not saying we don't need the extra vetting (we do), but you can't simply draft up an executive order that causes panic like that, without proper instruction to customs/tsa. Legal green card holders, students home for winter break, army personnel etc were denied travel / stranded / detained due to all of the confusion. Trump tends to fly by the seat of his pants, without considering the ramifications.

I fully support the vetting but unfortunately many trump supporters are under the impression that muslims = terrorists, creating a very hostile environment for the 1 billion plus peaceful and law abiding followers. Many US muslims are terrified right now, uncertain about their future in a country that is now looking at them sideways. That is not what we stand for as a country, we are better than that
Let's hope so. Because after being "terrified" something else will happen.
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      01-29-2017, 03:49 PM   #180
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Comedian Jim Jefferies put it better than I could before the election.

"There are many reasons why Donald Trump is a scary presidential candidate. He loves stirring up America's xenophobia and racial tensions. He doesn't support a woman's right to choose. His skin is the color of Cheetos and his hands are the size of a small child's. The wall.

'Freedumb' Isn't Free
But Australian comedian Jim Jefferies touches on a major reason that we all should be terrified of a President Trump: his proposed policy to put all American Muslims on a registry.

"It's a recruitment tool!" Jeffries says in his new Netflix special, Freedumb. "Now, you're a 16-year-old boy or girl that's a Muslim living in this country... You've always considered yourself American.

"And then all of a sudden, someone who could be your president says, 'You are not welcome here and that you should be put on a register. Now, how fucking quickly do you think that kid could be radicalized? Before, he wasn't going to be radicalized at all."
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      01-29-2017, 03:52 PM   #181
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Our country lets in more immigrants than anyone else in this world and Germany is far far far behind in second.
A little ban won't hurt our immigration and the extreme vetting just ensures the quality immigrants are allowed in.

I dont see anything wrong with this at all..
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      01-29-2017, 03:57 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex340 View Post
- Religious identity served us well for centuries in our tribal stage of development
- It no longer serves us, we are one and must see through those superficial differences
- Doing so is our only hope. The world's technologies and weapons are too advanced for it to be otherwise
- We will come together or we will perish

And somehow I knew that person would be you. Forget the Dalai Lama and where he is from, which part of the above four points and the overall message are you arguing against?
Are you smoking stuff again?

Would you mind explaining to the Sunni's and Shia that they are one and the same?

Then can you do the same across in India and Pakistan with the Hindu/ Sihks against Muslim.

Oh and of course we have Protestants against Catholics.

Religion is the sum of all (pretty much all) world strife and wars both historical and modern.

Even within the Christian faith it's totally fucked up.

Just look at these fuckwit born again Christians and abortion etc.

Yep just ban all religions and shoot all radicals no matter the faith.

Sorted.
Isn't it the atheistic Chinese beating up on the Dalai Lama and buddhists?
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      01-29-2017, 04:06 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
Our country lets in more immigrants than anyone else in this world and Germany is far far far behind in second.
A little ban won't hurt our immigration and the extreme vetting just ensures the quality immigrants are allowed in.

I dont see anything wrong with this at all..
Yes but it also bans non immigrants that is one of the main stupid bits.

'I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order'

It is utterly incopentent and does bugger all to prevent entry from those countries such as Saudi, Lebanon etc etc.

So if you cannot see anything wrong, that explains a lot with why you lot often stun the world with stupidity.
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      01-29-2017, 04:10 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex340 View Post
Let's hope so. Because after being "terrified" something else will happen.
Exactly. There's a way to go about this that doesn't discriminate and judge an entire religion based on the actions of very few. There should have been clear cut directives to all customs/airports, with specifics about who to focus on. All he did was create chaos and resentment among muslims, who now feel even more unwelcome in this country (whether thats true or not)

Again, strict vetting is a good idea. But trump is drafting executive orders without the proper measures in place to sustain them. Hence why federal courts are already stopping this and protests are breaking out. The vast majority of muslims are great people, just like with most religions. The problem is too many people have painted a negative picture of them (based off news, alt-right rhetoric) without any personal interaction
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      01-29-2017, 04:16 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
Our country lets in more immigrants than anyone else in this world and Germany is far far far behind in second.
A little ban won't hurt our immigration and the extreme vetting just ensures the quality immigrants are allowed in.

I dont see anything wrong with this at all..
I would agree, if current green card holders were not being detained. Green card holders are already residents, you can't just stop all of them from coming back into the country.

Some went abroad to visit family, and now can't come back. Their jobs, their homes, their cars, are all in jeopardy right now.

I was ok with how the order was written, but the way it is being implemented is insane.
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      01-29-2017, 04:20 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Isn't it the atheistic Chinese beating up on the Dalai Lama and buddhists?
Oh don't even go there, it's complicated as fuck lol.

Some is ethic and cultural.

Some is the fault of the CIA.

The Chinese pretty much only allow one supreme entity and that is the Party.
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      01-29-2017, 04:20 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Yes but it also bans non immigrants that is one of the main stupid bits.

'I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order'

It is utterly incopentent and does bugger all to prevent entry from those countries such as Saudi, Lebanon etc etc.

So if you cannot see anything wrong, that explains a lot with why you lot often stun the world with stupidity.
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      01-29-2017, 04:22 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex340 View Post
You do realise that there are millions of muslims living peacefully in the US already that aren't going anywhere?

How vulnerable to radicalisation do you think these previously perfectly peaceful residents will become if you carry on in this direction? Going from valued citizens to card carrying suspects overnight is not going to end well for America.

Best way, set up extermination camps, get rid of them all quickly before anything happens. Our world seems to heading for destruction and we're speeding it on its way.

Someone else quoted this on another post and even if not wholly attributable to the Dalai Lama it is impossible to argue with its logic. Although I know from experience someone on here will.

"Dalai Lama has been saying that for years. Paraphrased;

- Religious identity served us well for centuries in our tribal stage of development
- It no longer serves us, we are one and must see through those superficial differences
- Doing so is our only hope. The world's technologies and weapons are too advanced for it to be otherwise
- We will come together or we will perish

I love that he backs that up with being a non-evangelical. Are you a Western Christian looking to become a Buddhist? Ok, happy to have you but... have you thought about being a better Christ-like Christian first? The label you apply to your practice means nothing next to how good a human being you are.

He is right, but we are so not on the right path."
I just quoted the same man elsewhere. Considering he is now mentioned in two posts, the risk of him being a terrorist is probably high, I think.
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      01-29-2017, 04:23 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Yes but it also bans non immigrants that is one of the main stupid bits.

'I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order'

It is utterly incopentent and does bugger all to prevent entry from those countries such as Saudi, Lebanon etc etc.

So if you cannot see anything wrong, that explains a lot with why you lot often stun the world with stupidity.
I agree I'd put a temporary ban on ALL Muslim countries, till we sort this all out and put an end to ISIS. After that we can go back to business as usual.
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      01-29-2017, 04:27 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
I would agree, if current green card holders were not being detained. Green card holders are already residents, you can't just stop all of them from coming back into the country.

Some went abroad to visit family, and now can't come back. Their jobs, their homes, their cars, are all in jeopardy right now.

I was ok with how the order was written, but the way it is being implemented is insane.
Yep, that's the thing as a policy it's going in the right direction, however actual implementation is farcical and shows a level of stupidity not usually seen by politicians.

It's also amazing that people defend such an ineptly implemented order.
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      01-29-2017, 04:27 PM   #191
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I am still curious why the rest of the world is so up in arms about this but never cared about the 16 countries that ban Israelis (pretty much all jews) from entering.
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      01-29-2017, 04:28 PM   #192
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Anyone who thinks this is some random dart game and Trump has no clue...
This, imo, is the first in a series of tests, if you will.
A strong message is being sent that is long overdue. Can a War on Terror guide be pulled out of archives for a quick refresher? No. Nobody has THE way. Could this be a signal saying 'we're serious and we will defeat you?' He didn't just flip a coin as to what to do first. He listened to people with ideas about short and long term plans. What do you think all these people around him do all day, play checkers?
These terrorists are rats. Rats that want to find other rats. Rats leave trails. Get serious, focused and determined to track down and exterminate the vermin. Up until Trump it's been nothing but lip flapping and spending money on crappy techniques and 'let's form another committee' bs.

The 'fuel for isis' argument is beyond late, off and utter bs.
So now isis is really ramping up? They've been holding their ace under their exploding vest just waiting for this moment?
Recruit whom? Quacks that were quacks a year ago and are now ready to die because of Trump?
Yeah, ok.


He has every available tool and countless people with vast experience at his disposal. He's the POTUS.
This is a war against terror. There will be bumps and inconveniences. Sorry.
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      01-29-2017, 04:40 PM   #193
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Found a couple of links that maybe you guys could help me verify........

Donald Trump didn’t come up with the list of Muslim countries he wants to ban. Obama did.
https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-...ion#.utf6Er7H2

http://truthfeed.com/breaking-the-pa...igrants/49400/


20 'Vetted' Refugees Who Turned to Terrorism After Being Allowed Into America
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=56194
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      01-29-2017, 04:44 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Anyone who thinks this is some random dart game and Trump has no clue...
This, imo, is the first in a series of tests, if you will.
A strong message is being sent that is long overdue. Can a War on Terror guide be pulled out of archives for a quick refresher? No. Nobody has THE way. Could this be a signal saying 'we're serious and we will defeat you?' He didn't just flip a coin as to what to do first. He listened to people with ideas about short and long term plans. What do you think all these people around him do all day, play checkers?
These terrorists are rats. Rats that want to find other rats. Rats leave trails. Get serious, focused and determined to track down and exterminate the vermin. Up until Trump it's been nothing but lip flapping and spending money on crappy techniques and 'let's form another committee' bs.

The 'fuel for isis' argument is beyond late, off and utter bs.
So now isis is really ramping up? They've been holding their ace under their exploding vest just waiting for this moment?
Recruit whom? Quacks that were quacks a year ago and are now ready to die because of Trump?
Yeah, ok.



This is a war against terror. There will be bumps and inconveniences. Sorry.
the message is that the person that came up with its implementation is incompetent and appears not to have a clue.

So working on this being the opening moves on a war against ISIS, why ban Iranians?
They are actively fighting them.

Why no ban on Saudi or other Sunni Muslim countries who financially support ISIS?

Why ban people already living and working in the states?

Also yes it does give radical imans etc the ability to use this inept policy to preach against the US.

Let's face it any terrorist leader with a modicum of intelligence will be having the next plane from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt, UAE, Lebanon, etc etc with some dedicated believers on board. Then just stroll right in as they can without much hassle.

Edit: I missed the bit about tools, yes it does seem he has a lot of tools...
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      01-29-2017, 04:45 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scostu View Post
Found a couple of links that maybe you guys could help me verify........

Donald Trump didnít come up with the list of Muslim countries he wants to ban. Obama did.
https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-...ion#.utf6Er7H2

20 'Vetted' Refugees Who Turned to Terrorism After Being Allowed Into America
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=56194
Information liberation.com maybe as bad or worse than Brett Bart or Alex Jones. What an awful site!
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      01-29-2017, 04:48 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scostu View Post
Found a couple of links that maybe you guys could help me verify........

Donald Trump didnít come up with the list of Muslim countries he wants to ban. Obama did.
https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-...ion#.utf6Er7H2

http://truthfeed.com/breaking-the-pa...igrants/49400/


20 'Vetted' Refugees Who Turned to Terrorism After Being Allowed Into America
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=56194
It does not matter one jot who came up with the list or lists, Walt Disney or Karl Marx.

What matters is how someone implements he list or the reasons etc.

The current fiasco sits firmly with whoever implemented or rather failed to think before implementing it.
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      01-29-2017, 04:48 PM   #197
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Information liberation.com maybe as bad or worse than Brett Bart or Alex Jones. What an awful site!
Thanks. Wasn't aware of that. I don't dig real deep into either right/left websites.

From that particular article...it appears almost all information on the 20 vetted refugees was linked from justice.gov.

One example.....https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtx/pr...port-al#_blank
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Last edited by scostu; 01-29-2017 at 04:58 PM.. Reason: added link to Justice.gov
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      01-29-2017, 04:53 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
It does not matter one jot who came up with the list or lists, Walt Disney or Karl Marx.

What matters is how someone implements he list or the reasons etc.

The current fiasco sits firmly with whoever implemented or rather failed to think before implementing it.
I haven't had the opportunity to travel outside the US as much as some on this forum. I would seriously enjoy traveling to Europe to experience other cultures but USA is still a pretty good melting pot.

So, I'm not knocking on you.....but why others from countries outside USA weigh in on this?

Are you guys directly affected in some way?

In all seriousness, if you have family here that are affected, or family/friends abroad that are affected, I could understand.
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Last edited by scostu; 01-29-2017 at 04:58 PM.. Reason: added link to Justice.gov
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