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      12-13-2019, 01:10 PM   #2619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
None taken. Mostly, he loved how it drove and looked, which I can respect even though I disagree. He is very self sufficient and has been for a long time. His world, his choice. For the most part, the kid (28) has his head on pretty damn straight and knows what's up. He is planning his exit strategy on the car already just because of the charging nonsense that I wrote about above. He is coming to visit next spring, and I think once he hears the rumble of my car and feels it smack his head against the headrest, he will be visiting his local BMW dealer....
Rumble yes, but wouldn't the Model 3 have a much harder smack against the headrest than most BMWs
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      12-13-2019, 01:13 PM   #2620
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Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Rumble yes, but wouldn't the Model 3 have a much harder smack against the headrest than most BMWs
It is the entire experience, my friend. I understand what you are saying, but the difference is negligible for real world daily driver cars. At least to me.
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      12-13-2019, 01:13 PM   #2621
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Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Rumble yes, but wouldn't the Model 3 have a much harder smack against the headrest than most BMWs
Someone else said it here, but I will repeat. No one that is thinking of buying a fast car buys an EV, they were already going to get an electric car anyways. They simply opted for a higher trim to be faster.

On current tech, EV's are not performance vehicles. Just because they can go 0-60 quickly doesn't mean anything.
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      12-13-2019, 01:20 PM   #2622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
None taken. Mostly, he loved how it drove and looked, which I can respect even though I disagree. He is very self sufficient and has been for a long time. His world, his choice. For the most part, the kid (28) has his head on pretty damn straight and knows what's up. He is planning his exit strategy on the car already just because of the charging nonsense that I wrote about above. He is coming to visit next spring, and I think once he hears the rumble of my car and feels it smack his head against the headrest, he will be visiting his local BMW dealer....
Rumble yes, but wouldn't the Model 3 have a much harder smack against the headrest than most BMWs
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Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
None taken. Mostly, he loved how it drove and looked, which I can respect even though I disagree. He is very self sufficient and has been for a long time. His world, his choice. For the most part, the kid (28) has his head on pretty damn straight and knows what's up. He is planning his exit strategy on the car already just because of the charging nonsense that I wrote about above. He is coming to visit next spring, and I think once he hears the rumble of my car and feels it smack his head against the headrest, he will be visiting his local BMW dealer....
Rumble yes, but wouldn't the Model 3 have a much harder smack against the headrest than most BMWs
Who cares? If you want that smack, go to a roller coaster or sign up for a NASCAR ride experience in Daytona.😉
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      12-13-2019, 02:30 PM   #2623
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https://seekingalpha.com/article/431...ything-matters
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      12-17-2019, 05:57 PM   #2624
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Without going into any detail, I have driven the Performance models of S and 3 in their concept stage (and the model X before it was released to public) and I was zipping around town over the weekend on a M3S. Only interesting about it is the acceleration which pretty much all future electric cars will have.

Super ugly car with a giant i-pad on dash absolutely does nothing to me. Original Model S was beautiful and got me real interested.

Overall reality is, once BMW, Porsche & Audi catch up on the technology and create a real "drivers" cars, most of us will go that way while others will be upgrading their Leaf and Prius' to Tesla Model 3.

PS: My buddy got a flat on his Model 3........ Now that is a story that messed up his whole day, not that their most customer base would know anything about changing a tire anyway
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      12-20-2019, 07:38 AM   #2625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
...Overall reality is, once BMW, Porsche & Audi catch up on the technology and create a real "drivers" cars, most of us will go that way...
The problem with this statement is that it seems to presume that Tesla's tech will stand still, allowing competitors to catch up. That won't be the case, and as shown by the efficiency numbers posted by the Taycan, e-Tron, i-Pace and EQC (whose US introduction was just delayed by a year), they all have a LONG way to go.

As for the Model 3's driving bona fides, you might be interested to read this thread, where former drivers of everything from BMWs to Jaguar F-Types to tuned Camaros explain why they moved to a Model 3 and how much they enjoy driving it:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4298072/
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      12-20-2019, 08:22 AM   #2626
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https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/HAB1908.pdf

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology...ve-30-mph-zone
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      12-20-2019, 11:07 AM   #2627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Overall reality is, once BMW, Porsche & Audi catch up on the technology and create a real "drivers" cars, most of us will go that way
"Once barnes & noble catches up to amazon ..."
"Once blockbuster catches up to netflix ..."

That's the problem with being disrupted by technology: you can't get back the market-share you lost when you were behind...

Tesla won't bankrupt BMW or VAG, but they also won't get back the market share they're losing to Tesla. Walmart & Target aren't in bankruptcy, but they'll never get back what they lost to Amazon.

Tesla has already shown us they can compete or beat the best Porsche can put out - on a whim! Queue up all the "but, but, but Tesla sucks you guys because ..." that we've been hearing for 9 years.

Reminder: 9 years ago Tesla had 0 production cars, now they're discussed as the company to catch up to! Now they're running a fairly good, albeit imperfect, but good car business:



"but, but, but their cash flow you guys! TSLA can't make profits!"

Here's what disrupting a century-old capital-intensive industry looks like: At scale it starts tipping into profitability -



Net-net:
There will be no "catching up" to Tesla, only the tally of market-share that BMW and VAG gave up just like Wal-mart and Target have to Amazon - you probably use all 3 now.

So, WE may not buy a Tesla, but we're already old - kids coming up will see Tesla as the equal or premium brand, just like we see the Germans compared to US/Japanese car brands.

NOTE: I don't have a Tesla, likely won't buy one anytime soon, and don't own, nor ever have owned, TSLA. Just stating the product reality based on the data.
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Last edited by GrussGott; 12-20-2019 at 11:19 AM..
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      12-20-2019, 05:19 PM   #2628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
"Once barnes & noble catches up to amazon ..."
"Once blockbuster catches up to netflix ..."

That's the problem with being disrupted by technology: you can't get back the market-share you lost when you were behind...

Tesla won't bankrupt BMW or VAG, but they also won't get back the market share they're losing to Tesla. Walmart & Target aren't in bankruptcy, but they'll never get back what they lost to Amazon.

Tesla has already shown us they can compete or beat the best Porsche can put out - on a whim! Queue up all the "but, but, but Tesla sucks you guys because ..." that we've been hearing for 9 years.
I get what you are saying but this is not blockbuster, barns and noble & etc. Yes, main auto manufacturers fell asleep on the wheel and hopefully they will catch up.

Just bec Ford made the 1st production car didn't mean we are still all driving Fords.

Many others will come into market place and offer exciting, good looking, high quality cars which is where Tesla fails today. Tesla also will be forced to make exciting, good looking, high quality cars.

Given what Tesla is offering today and my own experience with Tesla cars, I won't consider buying one..... But I am also pretty sure M340 is my last non electric car. We will see what is out there in 3 years. Exciting times for sure, no argument there
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      12-20-2019, 06:41 PM   #2629
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The kids parents suing Tesla seems opportunist. Maybe I missed something there.
I'm impressed the car seemed to take the actual hit well. 100+ mph is no joke, certainly not something you would expect to survive tbh.
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      12-20-2019, 09:19 PM   #2630
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I believe most lawsuits are created by Opportunists.
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      12-20-2019, 10:26 PM   #2631
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
I believe most lawsuits are created by Opportunists.
The kid clearly had no respect for the safety of himself or others. He knew the area and the car. 20 over fine, our cars can generally handle it. 75 over? Good luck to you, travel solo, and don't hit anyone.

Last edited by AlpineX; 12-20-2019 at 10:57 PM..
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      12-21-2019, 12:51 AM   #2632
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Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
When specifically will an adaptive cruise control not brake?
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      12-21-2019, 06:33 AM   #2633
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When specifically will an adaptive cruise control not brake?
Not sure of exact speed but I think it's 40mph or above and it detects a stationary object in front of you. That includes a car that is standing still.
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      12-21-2019, 07:17 AM   #2634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
Not sure of exact speed but I think it's 40mph or above and it detects a stationary object in front of you. That includes a car that is standing still.
Hm.. And what's the reasoning by such a feature? Sounds like a good idea to brake (automatically if needed) if you're heading for a stationary object in 40+ mph?
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      12-21-2019, 09:03 AM   #2635
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Originally Posted by hybris View Post
Hm.. And what's the reasoning by such a feature? Sounds like a good idea to brake (automatically if needed) if you're heading for a stationary object in 40+ mph?
Not sure, I would guess it's because they don't want false alarms from side walls, signs, or barriers. Slamming the brakes on a highway from a false alarm would be dangerous.
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      12-21-2019, 01:46 PM   #2636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hybris View Post
When specifically will an adaptive cruise control not brake?
Not sure of exact speed but I think it's 40mph or above and it detects a stationary object in front of you. That includes a car that is standing still.
It has to be more than that. My i3 will brake for stopped cars while I'm cruising 75mph.
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      12-21-2019, 05:21 PM   #2637
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
It has to be more than that. My i3 will brake for stopped cars while I'm cruising 75mph.
This article does say most, so maybe there are some that will stop. But I am pretty sure BMW still uses radar for its adaptive cruise control, so not sure.

Quote:
This isn't the only recent case where Autopilot steered a Tesla vehicle directly into a stationary object—though thankfully the others didn't get anyone killed. Back in January, firefighters in Culver City, California, said that a Tesla with Autopilot engaged had plowed into the back of a fire truck at 65mph. In an eerily similar incident last month, a Tesla Model S with Autopilot active crashed into a fire truck at 60mph in the suburbs of Salt Lake City.

A natural reaction to these incidents is to assume that there must be something seriously wrong with Tesla's Autopilot system. After all, you might expect that avoiding collisions with large, stationary objects like fire engines and concrete lane dividers would be one of the most basic functions of a car's automatic emergency braking technology.

But while there's obviously room for improvement, the reality is that the behavior of Tesla's driver assistance technology here isn't that different from that of competing systems from other carmakers. As surprising as it might seem, most of the driver-assistance systems on the roads today are simply not designed to prevent a crash in this kind of situation.

Sam Abuelsamid, an industry analyst at Navigant and former automotive engineer, tells Ars that it's "pretty much universal" that "vehicles are programmed to ignore stationary objects at higher speeds."




https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstech...iders/%3famp=1
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      12-23-2019, 11:30 AM   #2638
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Then sounds like Tesla short changed its own state. But really you said East Coasters don't drive the long distances as Cali folks due, which I disagree. A lot of illegal narcotics run up Route 95 from Florida.
You're picking on a tree and missing the forest.
You're arguing out of context.
Obviously we are talking about averages, and not that nobody would do this or that. There is *a lot* more traffic between SF and LA than any 2 similarly distant cities that you can pick on East coast. Proof of that is that Tesla build their 40+ stall supercharger station in between SF-LA. There is no such station in the East. It's not needed, as you'll pass through a lot of urban centers on the way.
Narcos don't smuggle drugs in a Tesla.
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      12-23-2019, 11:43 AM   #2639
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The NTSB report should have started with "A Florida man..."

Quote:
Probable Cause
The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the single-vehicle run-off-road crash and postcrash fire in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, was the driver’s loss of control as a result of excessive speed. Contributing to the severity of the injuries was the
postcrash fire originating in the crash-damaged lithium-ion traction battery.
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      12-23-2019, 12:08 PM   #2640
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Rimac scored $1.3B in funding today. Interesting to see how this will impact Tesla, and the EV market as a whole.
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