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      07-05-2018, 03:35 PM   #67
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Again, I ask what would this achieve NOW and why are the U.S. manufacturers coming out AGAINST it?

Agreed, this is all more complicated than the headlines or slogans ... and it's pretty well documented that we've got someone in charge that doesn't have the attention span or interest to even have people that ARE experts in these matters spend any time explaining them. Business is supposed to be this man's expertise. It's business 101 to show what would be the potential bottom line gains for the US industry and that's yet to be articulated, given that it's been clearly shown that EU buyers have little to no interest in American cars, regardless the tariff.
The problem is, Trump was in the real estate business. "Business" means so many things. The complexity of global trade, interconnected web of product components, and rise of non-manufactured goods (services, software, processes) is what 45 doesn't understand.

He ONLY sees trade in tangible manufactured goods. That's the most ridiculous view on the world. So when he only focuses on tangible manufactured goods, the issue of global trade and interconnected web of product components becomes a problem.

He ONLY sees things in a simplistic way. Frankly, he should have started with his own family member's business. Yeah, you know, the Ivanka Trump branded clothing line that's all made in a sweatshop in Asia. Maybe he should try to get all that figured out in a "fair trade" scenario where the US has already lost the manufacturing prowess (that's a good thing btw) before he starts messing with more highly sensitive and impactful products like cars and planes.
Not sure why losing manufacturing prowess is a "good thing" for the US. That's an interesting viewpoint. Care to expound?
So Pruitt just resigned. Yeah no issues in that admin, march on. lol
Is one man a singular representative of the entire government?

Yes, Pruitt consistently made bad decisions, and he absolutely deserves to lose his position. No question about it.

I think with the constant, whipped up fervor, some forget there are good people in both major political parties.

I wouldn't paint everyone with a broad brush...that tends not to work out well.

But Pruitt is a bit of a sidebar discussion in this specific thread in my opinion.
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      07-05-2018, 03:40 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by VCP View Post
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Again, I ask what would this achieve NOW and why are the U.S. manufacturers coming out AGAINST it?

Agreed, this is all more complicated than the headlines or slogans ... and it's pretty well documented that we've got someone in charge that doesn't have the attention span or interest to even have people that ARE experts in these matters spend any time explaining them. Business is supposed to be this man's expertise. It's business 101 to show what would be the potential bottom line gains for the US industry and that's yet to be articulated, given that it's been clearly shown that EU buyers have little to no interest in American cars, regardless the tariff.
The problem is, Trump was in the real estate business. "Business" means so many things. The complexity of global trade, interconnected web of product components, and rise of non-manufactured goods (services, software, processes) is what 45 doesn't understand.

He ONLY sees trade in tangible manufactured goods. That's the most ridiculous view on the world. So when he only focuses on tangible manufactured goods, the issue of global trade and interconnected web of product components becomes a problem.

He ONLY sees things in a simplistic way. Frankly, he should have started with his own family member's business. Yeah, you know, the Ivanka Trump branded clothing line that's all made in a sweatshop in Asia. Maybe he should try to get all that figured out in a "fair trade" scenario where the US has already lost the manufacturing prowess (that's a good thing btw) before he starts messing with more highly sensitive and impactful products like cars and planes.
Not sure why losing manufacturing prowess is a "good thing" for the US. That's an interesting viewpoint. Care to expound?
So Pruitt just resigned. Yeah no issues in that admin, march on. lol
Is one man a singular representative of the entire government?

Yes, Pruitt consistently made bad decisions, and he absolutely deserves to lose his position. No question about it.

I think with the constant, whipped up fervor, some forget there are good people in both major political parties.

I wouldn't paint everyone with a broad brush...that tends not to work out well.

But Pruitt is a bit of a sidebar discussion in this specific thread in my opinion.
Agree. A scenario that is all too accepted too often I feel. Also, I did not point to the Conservative party as whole. I said admin. I feel Trump could be a very valuable part of an administration. Get him in a suitable Sec position so he can do what he does best. Run the country, and by some extent the Democracy of the globe? I have yet to be convinced.

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      07-05-2018, 03:46 PM   #69
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Exactly as I predicted.

Anybody who has followed the Donald's career even remotely knows he trolls and plays hardball for the purpose of negotiation. He threatens the worst-case scenario until the other side comes to the table.
Exactly correct.

He is a highly effective negotiator, and in this game of chess, he is usually three moves ahead.
You have got to be kidding, Trump could not beat a 6 year old at CHECKERS without cheating
How can anyone call serial bankruptcies a successful business model?
He was a terrible business executive, but a very capable huckster and con. His only successful career was as the host of a second rate "reality" television series.
And ask the man who wrote Tump's book, Trump did not write a single word of it, just more of his lies and obfuscation of anything resembling the truth.
And otherwise intelligent people believe it.........why?............I think I know why.............I am just waiting for someone to admit it.
Rant over
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      07-05-2018, 04:02 PM   #70
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Aaaaand the Supreme leader just changed his mind, and again...
It's called tough negotiating.
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      07-05-2018, 04:06 PM   #71
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Exactly as I predicted.

Anybody who has followed the Donald's career even remotely knows he trolls and plays hardball for the purpose of negotiation. He threatens the worst-case scenario until the other side comes to the table.
Exactly correct.

He is a highly effective negotiator, and in this game of chess, he is usually three moves ahead.
You have got to be kidding, Trump could not beat a 6 year old at CHECKERS without cheating
How can anyone call serial bankruptcies a successful business model?
He was a terrible business executive, but a very capable huckster and con. His only successful career was as the host of a second rate "reality" television series.
And ask the man who wrote Tump's book, Trump did not write a single word of it, just more of his lies and obfuscation of anything resembling the truth.
And otherwise intelligent people believe it.........why?............I think I know why.............I am just waiting for someone to admit it.
Rant over
I'd rather have private debtors rather than taxpayers take on the risk of a serial defaultor.

Besides there are a ton of "successful" business which owe their existence to the taxpayer.
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      07-05-2018, 04:12 PM   #72
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Ha. Ha. Ha.


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It's called tough negotiating.
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      07-05-2018, 04:24 PM   #73
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I think you and I actually agree. The point I'm making is set against those who claim that the EU tariffs have no effect. My counterpoint is that if that's true, then the argument is effectively over. If they have no effect, then the EU would repeal them readily.

My viewpoint should not be extended to support the ideals of the Trump administration.

It's likely the case, and again I'm no expert here so I'm just making an educated guess, that these tariffs are still in place mostly due to political inertia at this point. If removing them was something that the US auto makers actually felt were important to them, there is probably better ways an administration could have gone about nudging the EU into removing.

So it's really quite puzzling why this is even a priority to the administration, other than the man is incapable of thinking beyond simple arithmetic. An approach that used simplistic bullying to get the "best deal" perhaps worked in the real estate business, but as the numerous forays into other industries (sports teams, casinos) which perhaps required more advanced thinking (that ended in bankruptcy) showed, he had less success. It's no shock he's failing at international commerce.
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      07-05-2018, 04:27 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ZHP076 View Post
You have got to be kidding, Trump could not beat a 6 year old at CHECKERS without cheating
How can anyone call serial bankruptcies a successful business model?
He was a terrible business executive, but a very capable huckster and con. His only successful career was as the host of a second rate "reality" television series.
And ask the man who wrote Tump's book, Trump did not write a single word of it, just more of his lies and obfuscation of anything resembling the truth.
And otherwise intelligent people believe it.........why?............I think I know why.............I am just waiting for someone to admit it.
Rant over
I'll have to admit. He is a skillful conman, I've seen some good people falling for him. Well, still waiting to get his tax returns he promised so many times that how "wealthy'' he was.
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      07-05-2018, 04:39 PM   #75
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Aaaaand the Supreme leader just changed his mind, and again...
It's called tough negotiating.
Unless the person doing it is a Democrat. Then Trump supporters call it flip flopping at best, maybe unhinged or even treasonous.
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      07-05-2018, 05:25 PM   #76
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Holy fucking shit the cognitive dissonance amongst some of you is appalling. Godspeed to your country, and more importantly: yourselves. You need it.
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      07-05-2018, 05:31 PM   #77
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As someone that works in the automotive industry with most of yall's favorite brand(hint hint), anyone supporting the idea of this tariff is engaging in high-level stupidity and shows a serious lack of knowledge of the automotive industry.

On the political front, Trump finally woke up and realized that a large part of his constituency actually lives where most of the German manufacturers have plants and no doubt have family and friends that are tangentially connected in some way to their presence. Probably a bad idea to piss them off.

He tried to call the EU's bluff, failed, and will most likely try again.

Why he's doing this to our largest economic allies is truly beyond me...especially China. Their revenge will undoubtedly be very long-term and very timely as they will reach their goal of #1 world economy sooner rather than later(ie the 2020s).

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      07-05-2018, 05:32 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
It's called tough negotiating.
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Originally Posted by raysspl View Post
Yeah.... These tariffs were never going to make it in the real world. The modern global world. Concessions are good though & the threat of tariffs are sufficiently enough to figure out how to make trade somewhat better (for both sides?).
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Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Negotiating 101: Anchoring.

If the outcome of this negotiation is that EU members reduce tariffs on US automotive imports, it will be a win for the US. Granted, there's still plenty of opportunity for this to go sideways.

Sometimes you have to look past your own politics to see what's going on. I can't stand Donald Trump, but if this works, it's still a win.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/take-ou...ffs-1530783005

BelGioioso Cheese Inc., a second-generation family company in Wisconsin, has seen sales to Mexico drop since officials there implemented tariffs of up to 15% in early June on most U.S. cheese. The levies were a response to tariffs the U.S. placed on Mexican steel and aluminum.


On Thursday, Mexico was slated to raise its levy on most U.S. cheese to as much as 25%, while China on Friday is implementing tariffs on $34 billion of U.S. goods, including cheese and whey, a dairy byproduct often fed to livestock.

“It’s a nightmare,” said BelGioioso President Errico Auricchio

July milk futures have dropped 12% since Mexico announced May 31 that it would strike back with tariffs. The price for a barrel, or 500 pounds, of white cheddar last week hit its lowest level since 2009. More cheese is in cold storage in the U.S. than any time since the U.S. Department of Agriculture began keeping track in 1917.




is that what it's called? ok.. Somehow.. I have a feeling if it involves your business.. you might not feel the same..

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      07-05-2018, 05:37 PM   #79
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Not sure why losing manufacturing prowess is a "good thing" for the US. That's an interesting viewpoint. Care to expound?
It's about core competency. It's the same reasons why you yourself don't grow your own food that you eat or at work why you have admin staff.
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      07-05-2018, 05:37 PM   #80
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It's called tough negotiating.
Seems like a lot of yelling and screaming to me. If a child was doing it we would be calling it a tantrum or bullying.

NAFTA, North Korea, TPP, tariffs, immigration, healthcare, we have solved none of these issues, but we have certainly blamed everyone else and made a lot of enemies doing it.

Let’s have a trade war with Europe and Asia, as long as we know in war there is collateral damage.

I have been more successful in life with honey than vinegar. But then again I wasn’t born on 3rd base.
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      07-05-2018, 05:49 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
It's called tough negotiating.
Seems like a lot of yelling and screaming to me. If a child was doing it we would be calling it a tantrum or bullying.

NAFTA, North Korea, TPP, tariffs, immigration, we have solved none of these issues, but we have certainly blamed everyone else.

Let's have a trade war with Europe and Asia, as long as we know in war there is collateral damage.
oh it is. He's fulfilling his campaign promises (rarity) while forcing politicians to take a position and exposing them for who they are.

It's a no nonsense approach.

We'll have to see what happens once the dust settles.

European govts are already pissed at Trump over the US corporate tax overhaul. Seriously they'd sh!t if Trump abolished all corporate tax.
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      07-05-2018, 05:52 PM   #82
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Cannot make up their minds. Tomorrow, all tariffs will be back on. Great for economic stability...
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      07-05-2018, 05:55 PM   #83
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oh it is. He's fulfilling his campaign promises (rarity) while forcing politicians to take a position and exposing them for who they are.

It's a no nonsense approach.

We'll have to see what happens once the dust settles.

European govts are already pissed at Trump over the US corporate tax overhaul. Seriously they'd sh!t if Trump abolished all corporate tax.
He is elected and he should be allowed to do what he said even I donít like it.

Letís see what happens.
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      07-05-2018, 05:56 PM   #84
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As someone that works in the automotive industry with most of yall's favorite brand(hint hint), anyone supporting the idea of this tariff is engaging in high-level stupidity and shows a serious lack of knowledge of the automotive industry.

On the political front, Trump finally woke up and realized that a large part of his constituency actually lives where most of the German manufacturers have plants and no doubt have family and friends that are tangentially connected in some way to their presence. Probably a bad idea to piss them off.

He tried to call the EU's bluff, failed, and will most likely try again.

Why he's doing this to our largest economic allies is truly beyond me...especially China. Their revenge will undoubtedly be very long-term and very timely as they will reach their goal of #1 world economy sooner rather than later(ie the 2020s).
Why are you excusing EU automotive tariffs?

Economic size isn't as relevant as economic transparency. China has generations to go in that department.
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      07-05-2018, 06:08 PM   #85
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Why are you excusing EU automotive tariffs?

Economic size isn't as relevant as economic transparency. China has generations to go in that department.
Believe me the consumers there are paying for this.

We had a facility in China awhile back. We paid 120,000 US dollars for a new x5 base model 3.0 back in 2007. Cash. There wasn’t financing til recently. People used to go out of the country to buy electronics- phones, TVs, computers, etc. because it was cheaper.

You’ll get a new perspective on how good we have it here once you live abroad believe me, I’ve lived in Japan as well.
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      07-05-2018, 06:20 PM   #86
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Why are you excusing EU automotive tariffs?

Economic size isn't as relevant as economic transparency. China has generations to go in that department.
Believe me the consumers there are paying for this.

We had a facility in China awhile back. We paid 120,000 US dollars for a new x5 base model 3.0 back in 2007. Cash. There wasn't financing til recently. People used to go out of the country to buy electronics- phones, TVs, computers, etc. because it was cheaper.

You'll get a new perspective on how good we have it here once you live abroad believe me, I've lived in Japan as well.
Of course the consumer almost always pays the cost of the tariff.

btw...there's big money to be made shipping luxury german cars from the US to China. Chinese buyers don't like to wait. It's a big problem.
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      07-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #87
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Why are you excusing EU automotive tariffs?

Economic size isn't as relevant as economic transparency. China has generations to go in that department.
Why fight and disrupt EU diplomacy over trade tariffs when they have little to no effect on anything concerning American manufacturers? Seriously, who cares? Trying to fight over automotive tariffs in todayís global economy is useless and provides no advantages to the American economy. GM was strongly against anything resembling what the Trump Admin was pitching for a reason.
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      07-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #88
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Of course the consumer almost always pays the cost of the tariff.

true story...

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...davidson2018-7


profits drop... jobs are lost.. stocks drop.... so... everyone from wall street to main street get caught in the crossfire.

At what point does this scenario help the average American?

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