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      02-07-2020, 11:13 AM   #67
New2Roundel
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Perhaps a little late to the party, but in 2015 when I was looking for a new car, I considered a 997 carrera and e9x M3. At the time I had a 2012 Mustang GT---so either of these cars would be a huge upgrade---other than acceleration where they're all fairly close. I have to say that a 911 was/is my dream car from pretty much day 1. I never spent much time in 911s prior to this and I suppose I was expecting WAY too much from a carrera. On the street, I found both the standard carrera and S to be very nice cars. Well built and nice to drive. I just didn't find them engaging as a package and the rear tire roar on both cars I drove was really disappointing given the original price of the cars. I drove a fairly basic 987 Boxster years before and I loved it. It was super engaging---every engagement point within the car felt fantastic. The 997 felt way dulled down. Perhaps on a track or bombing down the highway at >100mph the carrera comes alive?

So then I looked at the e92 that I currently own---obviously, that's the direction I went. To me, for the street, the cars were more similar than different. I'm sure the differences come out then you're able to unleash the cars in a more unlimited environment. But to me, the more subtle approach to the M3 was more fitting to the model than it was to the 911, where I expected a much more engaging experience.

At the end of the day, it's all about what you're after. I don't think I'll have the cash to get the 911 I've dreamed about. But perhaps a Cayman is the Porsche sweet spot for me, though I've never driven one. I am looking forward to the upcoming 718 GTS, so we'll see.
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      02-07-2020, 01:14 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by New2Roundel View Post
Perhaps a little late to the party, but in 2015 when I was looking for a new car, I considered a 997 carrera and e9x M3. At the time I had a 2012 Mustang GT---so either of these cars would be a huge upgrade---other than acceleration where they're all fairly close. I have to say that a 911 was/is my dream car from pretty much day 1. I never spent much time in 911s prior to this and I suppose I was expecting WAY too much from a carrera. On the street, I found both the standard carrera and S to be very nice cars. Well built and nice to drive. I just didn't find them engaging as a package and the rear tire roar on both cars I drove was really disappointing given the original price of the cars. I drove a fairly basic 987 Boxster years before and I loved it. It was super engaging---every engagement point within the car felt fantastic. The 997 felt way dulled down. Perhaps on a track or bombing down the highway at >100mph the carrera comes alive?

So then I looked at the e92 that I currently own---obviously, that's the direction I went. To me, for the street, the cars were more similar than different. I'm sure the differences come out then you're able to unleash the cars in a more unlimited environment. But to me, the more subtle approach to the M3 was more fitting to the model than it was to the 911, where I expected a much more engaging experience.

At the end of the day, it's all about what you're after. I don't think I'll have the cash to get the 911 I've dreamed about. But perhaps a Cayman is the Porsche sweet spot for me, though I've never driven one. I am looking forward to the upcoming 718 GTS, so we'll see.
I appreciate this. Definitely looking forward to the 718 GTS, and our "other car" is a 958 GTS which is about as perfect a truck as we could find. Sad our first Porsche was a 4x4 but w/e.

I think it has more to do with what Porsche has available in the modern generation of cars. The feedback is better on "older" BMW cars, but new? Yeah, Porsche deserves the hype for keeping tactile enthusiast cars a priority.
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      02-08-2020, 09:00 AM   #69
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Iíve owned many M cars and many Porsches. I currently have a 991.2 Carrera T and would tell you that while Porsche doesnít give you the pure HP numbers in any car besides the turbo S or GT2RS they far exceed their paper specs. A base 991.2 with 370 on same tires would be faster than the M4 GTS (bmws fastest track car). I owned multiple e92 M3s and has a current gen M3 and M4 and I would say I found the 997 or 991 NA engines to be much more special than the e92 M engine and if you are considering a GT car, no comparison. As for turbo motors, the 911 again beats BMW by a large margin IMO. Beyond that, the build quality of the Porsches are much better as well. At the same time, you pay a price for the Porsche and BMW certainly offers a lot of value.
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      02-10-2020, 11:29 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Iíve owned many M cars and many Porsches. I currently have a 991.2 Carrera T and would tell you that while Porsche doesnít give you the pure HP numbers in any car besides the turbo S or GT2RS they far exceed their paper specs. A base 991.2 with 370 on same tires would be faster than the M4 GTS (bmws fastest track car). I owned multiple e92 M3s and has a current gen M3 and M4 and I would say I found the 997 or 991 NA engines to be much more special than the e92 M engine and if you are considering a GT car, no comparison. As for turbo motors, the 911 again beats BMW by a large margin IMO. Beyond that, the build quality of the Porsches are much better as well. At the same time, you pay a price for the Porsche and BMW certainly offers a lot of value.
I disagree with this.

My brother has a 991.2 911 with the 6cyl turbo.
I will take the S55 in my M3 any day. It pulls harder, revs higher, and sounds better actually.
As far as interior - he has the full leather interior which was like $5k option. I think quality is about equal but the tech in the M3 with Idrive is well superior to 991 generation.
Handling wise - 911 shines here. You really notice how light it is on its feet. No body roll whatsoever. Taking turns on tight backroads is a pleasure with no understeer where my M3 would just need to be wrestled into the turn.

For the money - i would take M3/M4 over 991 base 911 for sure.
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      02-10-2020, 01:57 PM   #71
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^^ you are comparing the M3 with the base 991 911, what would you expect it terms of power? But, even the base 911 handles better, and as always, the argument gets down to value for you, which is not an objective attribute to compare. Id glady take a 997tt over any new M3/M4, and it will have better overall performance and similar pricing.
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      02-10-2020, 02:27 PM   #72
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My takeaway from this thread, from the perspective of someone who's owned Ms and Porsches:

1// It's not a fair comparison if you just look at pure power and straight-line speed and output. In that case sure get an M, heck just get a Charger/Camaro/Mustang in the appropriate trim. However for many of us, it's not just about the straight-line power or pure output numbers. It's like the old adage that a Casio keeps time just as well (better?) than a Rolex...great but you're entirely missing the point.

2// Thinking about "value" is fair but not really the point... Yes, the M will always be the better value. I paid 2x for my GT3 what I paid for my M4. Is it "2x" the car...not really. If I wanted "value", I would have kept the M. But guess what, the people that drop money on these cars aren't really in it for "value". Do you think anyone pushing a Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc. made the choice because of "value"? Hells no. It comes down to wanting more edge, quality and a superior package (I'll add brand experience, while I'm at it) at diminishing value the higher up you go.

3// There is definitely some M fan-boy-ism here, as expected. Just as there's bias amongst the Porsche guys etc. But you're kidding yourself if you don't objectively realize the Porsche is the better car. The build quality, materials, etc. are all just a step above. The interior of my M4 was trash. I think most people objectively realize this, and you're kidding yourself if you don't. However, is the Porsche "2x" better? No... Once you get into cars above the M line (I'd throw in RS, AMG, etc.) the performance and quality you get for your money is not linear...you have to pay 2x for 1.5x the quality and performance, but that's the price you pay. Just like how a McLaren 720s isn't 2x the car of my GT3 but it's 2x the price...however anyone buying a 720s realizes that and it's not why they're buying that car.
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      02-10-2020, 05:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m630 View Post
^^ you are comparing the M3 with the base 991 911, what would you expect it terms of power? But, even the base 911 handles better, and as always, the argument gets down to value for you, which is not an objective attribute to compare. Id glady take a 997tt over any new M3/M4, and it will have better overall performance and similar pricing.
Base 911 is almost 2x the price of M3/M4 Comp, once you add a few convinience and performance options to the 911.
Personally its not worth it for what you get. I didnt come out of the 911 blown away in fact i was surprised my M3 felt faster.

GT3 / GT3RS or Turbo model are definitely awesome cars but those are in different price range.
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      02-10-2020, 06:17 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Base 911 is almost 2x the price of M3/M4 Comp, once you add a few convinience and performance options to the 911.
Personally its not worth it for what you get. I didnt come out of the 911 blown away in fact i was surprised my M3 felt faster.

GT3 / GT3RS or Turbo model are definitely awesome cars but those are in different price range.
991.2 911 was no where near double an M3/M4 Comp unless you are talking about leases which are meaningless since bmw was giving them away. My S55 F80 non comp was about 85k, the base 911 with a few performance options as you said was not 160-170K.....anyway they are totally different cars and yes the 911 is more expensive, its a better built better all around sports car. You wont feel blown away in a drag race, that is not what they are about.
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      02-10-2020, 06:48 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Iíve owned many M cars and many Porsches. I currently have a 991.2 Carrera T and would tell you that while Porsche doesnít give you the pure HP numbers in any car besides the turbo S or GT2RS they far exceed their paper specs. A base 991.2 with 370 on same tires would be faster than the M4 GTS (bmws fastest track car). I owned multiple e92 M3s and has a current gen M3 and M4 and I would say I found the 997 or 991 NA engines to be much more special than the e92 M engine and if you are considering a GT car, no comparison. As for turbo motors, the 911 again beats BMW by a large margin IMO. Beyond that, the build quality of the Porsches are much better as well. At the same time, you pay a price for the Porsche and BMW certainly offers a lot of value.
I own a 9A1 car now and owned another a few years back. To me, it's no content, the S65 is a more special power plant. Only a Metzger engine Porsche can hang with the S65, engine wise.
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      02-10-2020, 08:28 PM   #76
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I have both the E46 M and E90 M and I think the M cars drive trains are more precise and a bit tighter vs the 911 and ultimately more special. But in term of chassis, it's like comparing apples vs oranges. The M is more of a GT car and the 911 is more driver focus but not as practical as the M cars. I am not saying the M is better or the 911 is better, but they are different.

As for "feel", my guess is the 911 has more "feel" vs. the M car if anything the 911 is smaller with the engine in the rear and has a much lighter front end which will translate to better steering feel. As I said, they are different car so they will "feel" differently. On a long trip, I would no doubt pick the M, but on the track, of course the 911.

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      02-11-2020, 10:55 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 850tgul View Post
I own a 9A1 car now and owned another a few years back. To me, it's no content, the S65 is a more special power plant. Only a Metzger engine Porsche can hang with the S65, engine wise.
I donít agree. Anything in a GT car blows away anything M. I also have a 9A1 in a Carrera S and do feel it is a more special engine, and I really liked the S65 but it just doesnít excite in the entire rev range like the Porsche engines do. Only up top did the S65 shine and the GTx engines own it there too.
The 911 is not only a better sports car but the 911s are GT cars now and M suspension is generations back of Porsche.
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      02-11-2020, 11:14 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Base 911 is almost 2x the price of M3/M4 Comp, once you add a few convinience and performance options to the 911.
Personally its not worth it for what you get. I didnt come out of the 911 blown away in fact i was surprised my M3 felt faster.

GT3 / GT3RS or Turbo model are definitely awesome cars but those are in different price range.
i paid for a 11 CPO e90 m3 zcp for about 47k, and a 12 CPO 997.2 c2s for 60k.
so you can get a 911 for less than 2x price of a m3, but granted it it is an older car. in terms of driving pleasure i personally think it's worth of the upgrade... although, i still miss the s65. in an ideal world i want to keep both of them... but if i have to pick one i'll pick the 911.
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