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      07-24-2015, 12:54 PM   #1
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Rick Santorum -- I don't want this guy to be POTUS

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/w...s-489847363973

Okay. Now Mr. Santorum may have some good ideas, and more power to him and them if he does. The problem is that those good ideas are held in the same brain that apparently skipped class every time there was a discussion on the basic structure of the U.S.' government, and not once in his subsequent years of living bothered to "borrow a notebook" or something to acquire the missed instruction, apparently not even while he sat as a U.S. Senator or Representative.

I'm not of a mind to deny folks, political candidates, credit for having good ideas. One need not be a genius to have a good idea. However, being grossly ill informed on a matter as basic as the role and primacy of the U.S. Supreme Court is enough for me to feel that I as a citizen am better off if the person who is that ill informed shares his/her good ideas with whoever does get elected to public office rather than our electing them to office.

We all endured eight years of having an intellectual midget in the White House; do we really want or need to do that again? I'd like to know that my President is at least my intellectual equal, but really I rather they be my intellectual superior. If nothing else, it makes possible and plausible their having considered things I haven't.

Sure, anyone can "miss" a key fact on any number of arcane topics, and I wouldn't necessarily think their doing so to be a big deal. But for a former Senator and Representative to have for 20+ years missed, or God forbid ignored, something as basic as the role of the Supreme Court forces me to fear what other basic realities escape him. I wonder what other basic concepts he might not be aware of, or worse, simply choose to ignore in the course of defining policy?

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      07-24-2015, 12:59 PM   #2
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Don't you remember, whoever gets elected king gets to define policy.

As long as POTUS has decent advisors, I can sleep at night.


Gosh, but I am sorely tired after the last couple of decades
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      07-24-2015, 01:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
We all endured eight years of having an intellectual midget in the White House; do we really want or need to do that again?
I'm not an Obama supporter either, but making it personal is part of why our nation is as divided as it is
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      07-24-2015, 01:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
I'm not an Obama supporter either, but making it personal is part of why our nation is as divided as it is
How does one not make what one thinks about a political candidate be personal? We are called to vote for individuals, aren't we? Candidates go out of their way to regale us with their strengths and beliefs as individuals do they not?

It seems to me the the divisiveness and resulting governmental and administrative constipation we see in U.S., at least in part, results from from too little individualism and individuality in thought, action and consideration of consequences (both good and bad). For the moment, at least, I think were our elected officials to think, lead and legislate with a view of what is "right and best" for the individuals who voted them into office rather than what is "right and best" for the organizations that funded their effort to win those votes, we'd as a nation be in a lot better shape.

All the best.
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      07-24-2015, 01:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
I'm not an Obama supporter either, but making it personal is part of why our nation is as divided as it is
OH, Tony was talking about Obama? I thought he meant junior
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      07-24-2015, 01:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
How does one not make what one thinks about a political candidate be personal? We are called to vote for individuals, aren't we? Candidates go out of their way to regale us with their strengths and beliefs as individuals do they not?
Just messing with you. I'm assuming you were referring to 43 and not 44

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
For the moment, at least, I think were our elected officials to think, lead and legislate with a view of what is "right and best" for the individuals who voted them into office rather than what is "right and best" for the organizations that funded their effort to win those votes, we'd as a nation be in a lot better shape.
For the moment? Call me naive, but this has been the case for the last 3 decades, if not longer.

The Presidential election has been so formulaic that I'm amazed that the electorate still believe we are a representative republic (not in terms of structure, but representation), but then again, most believe we are a democracy as well. The influence peddlers (domestic, corporate, international, ethnic, etc...) are the usual suspects and regardless of the policy maker of choice in office, the direction of the state will continue with only slight degrees of change.
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      07-24-2015, 02:00 PM   #7
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I thought it couldn't get any worse after Bush. Boy was I wrong.

Can it possibly get any worse with the next clown?
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      07-24-2015, 02:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Don't you remember, whoever gets elected king gets to define policy.

As long as POTUS has decent advisors, I can sleep at night.

Gosh, but I am sorely tired after the last couple of decades
I agree with that. I just so basic is the thing I've learned Mr. Santorum has not understood that I lack confidence that Mr. Santorum knows enough about the people whom he'd consider appointing as advisors that I could sleep at night with him "at the wheel."

Among the Republican candidates right now, I like, or at least regard highly enough that I can imagine liking them, Jeb Bush, Bob Ehrlich, Michael Petyo, and John Kasich. The 'Pubs even have one candidate, Micheal Bickelmeyer, whom I like for the "out of the box" thinking he brings to the table, but for whom I'd never vote in an election.

I would like to like Donald Trump, but unfortunately his ideas and comments resonate with me the same way a political comedian's monologues do. Indeed, from what I've heard, I think Mr. Trump would be an excellent stand up comedian. It's not that I so much disagree with the spirit behind many (but not all) of his comments, it's that I've not heard much of the "meat" detailing how he would implement his ideas. As "sound bites," sure they're appealing, but as things I think about seeing brought to fruition, I see lots of ways to be very afraid of the consequences of actually do so.

One thing I like about candidates like Mr. Trump is that they have the potential to get elected and once in office, act based on what they believe is "right. That potential exists because they are independently wealthy enough that they don't have to be beholden to "big money" from either the left or right.
To the best of my knowledge, U.S. has only for a short time in its history had legislative and executive branch leaders who were in good measure able to act without worrying about losing financial support from donors. And what resulted from those leaders? A nation to begin with, along with its Declaration of Independence, its Constitution and Bill of Rights, and a set of documents -- The Federalist Papers -- that form the basis for the thinking behind so much of what many people today seem to have forgotten.

All the best.
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      07-24-2015, 02:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
Just messing with you. I'm assuming you were referring to 43 and not 44

For the moment? Call me naive, but this has been the case for the last 3 decades, if not longer.

The Presidential election has been so formulaic that I'm amazed that the electorate still believe we are a representative republic (not in terms of structure, but representation), but then again, most believe we are a democracy as well. The influence peddlers (domestic, corporate, international, ethnic, etc...) are the usual suspects and regardless of the policy maker of choice in office, the direction of the state will continue with only slight degrees of change.
Red:
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
OH, Tony was talking about Obama? I thought he meant junior
You are correct. I did not mean Obama.

I don't care what one thinks of either of their policies, there's no way anyone can in their right mind and in good conscience think (not believe, think) that Bush II is a more intelligent man than is Obama.

Blue:
Well, "moment" meaning for as long as I've been sentient. "For the moment" is the phrase I used to leave open the (hopeful) possibility that things may change, and that before I die, the American political process will once again see and be infused more something resembling integrity and a bit of altruism than with that which is closest to outright selfishness and greed.

All the best.
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      07-24-2015, 02:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
"For the moment" is the phrase I used to leave open the (hopeful) possibility that things may change, and that before I die, the American political process will once again see and be infused more something resembling integrity and a bit of altruism than with that which is closest to outright selfishness and greed.
As with any deficiency in character, behavioral issue, etc...there has to be a seminal event that reverses or changes the current course. Short of that happening, it's business as usual
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      07-24-2015, 03:28 PM   #11
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As with any deficiency in character, behavioral issue, etc...there has to be a seminal event that reverses or changes the current course. Short of that happening, it's business as usual
There does. And Mr. Trump's winning the Presidency could be that event. Therein lies what I like about his running.

I just hope that his bid for the job is enough and that we don't actually have to elect his callous butt to the position to effect the paradigm shift of which you write. I can see the value of the sea-change, but I am not at all certain that the benefit of the change outweighs the downsides of electing Mr. Trump.

All the best.
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      07-24-2015, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I can see the value of the sea-change, but I am not at all certain that the benefit of the change outweighs the downsides of electing Mr. Trump.
I forgot to add that the person has to be sane
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      07-24-2015, 04:32 PM   #13
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Right now, i gave up to find "best candidates" from list of 20 on the right wing.
I wanna go for a win after losing 2 elections.

I am looking for a good candidate PLUS ones who can turn swing states into Rtwing.
Rubio/JBush, if you want FL.
John Kasich, if you want OH

My guess is that Trump will drop out one day, and try to support the candidate who won primary.
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      07-24-2015, 04:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
I forgot to add that the person has to be sane
True.


Surprisingly, sanity is no more common that is sense. I think Mr. Trump at times makes sense, but I also think that sense and insanity are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPrena View Post
Right now, i gave up to find "best candidates" from list of 20 on the right wing.
I wanna go for a win after losing 2 elections.

I am looking for a good candidate PLUS ones who can turn swing states into Rtwing.
Rubio/JBush, if you want FL.
John Kasich, if you want OH

My guess is that Trump will drop out one day, and try to support the candidate who won primary.
I don't really need or want any state or candidate to be left wing or right wing. I just want sound, well thought out policies that have human citizens' best interests and livelihood as their raison d'etre. I don't care about the labels that may fit a person. I do care about their ideas and whether those ideas are (1) actionable, and (2) ethical. I'd like that their ideas work, but if they don't work, I'm okay with at least learning something from their ideas' failure to work as expected. For me, it's always about progress not whether we never make a mistake. Perfection is for gods. Last time I checked, no gods are running for office.

All the best.
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      07-24-2015, 05:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPrena View Post
Right now, i gave up to find "best candidates" from list of 20 on the right wing.
I wanna go for a win after losing 2 elections.

I am looking for a good candidate PLUS ones who can turn swing states into Rtwing.
Rubio/JBush, if you want FL.
John Kasich, if you want OH

My guess is that Trump will drop out one day, and try to support the candidate who won primary.
That works well for the country. Yay, party first!!
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      07-26-2015, 12:08 AM   #16
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Don't worry, he won't be.
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      07-26-2015, 12:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPrena View Post
Right now, i gave up to find "best candidates" from list of 20 on the right wing.
I wanna go for a win after losing 2 elections.

I am looking for a good candidate PLUS ones who can turn swing states into Rtwing.
Rubio/JBush, if you want FL.
John Kasich, if you want OH

My guess is that Trump will drop out one day, and try to support the candidate who won primary.
And here is an example of what is wrong with politics these days. It's been turned into a sports team debate. " Yankees suck!" " No Red Sox suck!". Just replace Yankees/Red Sox with Democrats/Republicans.

If the only thing that matters to you is if the persons name has a R or a D next to their name then this country will continue to be screwed.

Frankly no matter who wins, Hillary, Bush III, Trump, Rubio, Walker, etc it doesn't really matter. They are just two sides of the same coin. People who want power and will do anything to get it. Politicians are scumbags no matter if they are a Democrat or Republican. And this countries divide of having it my way or the highway and saying screw compromise is making things worse. I am a moderate that leans left, but I can't vote for any of the candidates out there right now.

It's why I wrote in Stewart/Colbert in 2012 and will probably do so again in 2016. At least we would have decent comedians in the White House.......

Last edited by quagmire; 07-26-2015 at 12:40 PM..
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      07-26-2015, 12:38 PM   #18
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Bernie Sanders!
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      07-27-2015, 10:29 AM   #19
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It feels like this section of the forum has become the unofficial "Democrat's Corner" with all the anti-Republican, anti-conservative, anti-religion, anit-anything that MSNBC doesn't agree with rhetoric you see in these thread titles...

And usually it's done by the same individuals: SoCal235 , tony20009 ...

I wonder what their tune will be if their girl Hillary loses the nomination or the election: The Downfall of America?
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      07-27-2015, 10:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
It feels like this section of the forum has become the unofficial "Democrat's Corner" with all the anti-Republican, anti-conservative, anti-religion, anit-anything that MSNBC doesn't agree with rhetoric you see in these thread titles...

And usually it's done by the same individuals: SoCal235 , tony20009 ...

I wonder what their tune will be if their girl Hillary loses the nomination or the election: The Downfall of America?
It's all the same. Just swap the anti-right stuff with anti-left and you have the same product.

People who don't like Obama said the same thing when he was elected. Downfall of America.....

Welcome to Politics 101. Both sides use the same dirty tactics, accuse each other of doing the same thing, etc. Both just want to get into a mob mentality and bash bash bash.

Forums that lean left have very few moderate right leaning folks and get the right extremists. Forums that lean right get few moderate left leaning people and get the extreme left. I think it is because majority get into that mob mentality going, " Obama/Liberals/Democrats Suck!!!!!!!!"( replace Obama with a Republican/Conservatives/Republicans for vice versa) and they all feed off each other and the moderates such as myself go it's not worth it because they don't want to discuss the matter in a civil manner. While the opposite sides extreme component fights back hard.

That is what I have observed on forums that have a politics forum. It's the same behavior. Just depends how that forum leans on which side does what. Like I said above, politics has become more of a sports team thing than actually getting the best people for the job.

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      07-27-2015, 11:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
It's all the same. Just swap the anti-right stuff with anti-left and you have the same product.

People who don't like Obama said the same thing when he was elected. Downfall of America.....

Welcome to Politics 101. Both sides use the same dirty tactics, accuse each other of doing the same thing, etc. Both just want to get into a mob mentality and bash bash bash.

Forums that lean left have very few moderate right leaning folks and get the right extremists. Forums that lean right get few moderate left leaning people and get the extreme left. I think it is because majority get into that mob mentality going, " Obama/Liberals/Democrats Suck!!!!!!!!"( replace Obama with a Republican/Conservatives/Republicans for vice versa) and they all feed of each other and the moderates such as myself go it's not worth it because they don't want to discuss the matter in a civil manner. While the opposite sides extreme component fights back hard.

That is what I have observed on forums that have a politics forum. It's the same behavior. Just depends how that forum leans on which side does what. Like I said above, politics has become more of a sports team thing than actually getting the best people for the job.
This is a great summary. A moderate, like ourselves, don't grab as much attention by our posts, either. The ones that bring people in and entertain are the far left/right posters that are often slinging insults, as well.
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      07-27-2015, 12:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
It feels like this section of the forum has become the unofficial "Democrat's Corner" with all the anti-Republican, anti-conservative, anti-religion, anit-anything that MSNBC doesn't agree with rhetoric you see in these thread titles...

And usually it's done by the same individuals: SoCal235 , tony20009 ...

I wonder what their tune will be if their girl Hillary loses the nomination or the election: The Downfall of America?
I will do the same thing I do now: investigate matters that interest me and, as they pertain to those topics, evaluate the words, arguments and deeds of the person who does win.

I've in this forum written about many things that I think need fixing. I don't recall ever having written that any politician's acts portend America's downfall on the order of "The Fall of Rome."

All the best.
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