[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

“The European-specification M40i was fitted with an exhaust particulate filter that limits output to 335 horsepower, but cars in the United States don't need such a system, which means a mighty 382 ponies and an estimated 3.7-second zero-to-60-mph time.”

they imply that the particulate filter is the reason for the 42hp drop, but I suspect it's mostly just a different tune and spec between the two motors.

Dave

[DPelletier]

courtesy of PrionFawkes;

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

This was a test against the Z4 M40i Euro version. Where did they test the Supra against most/half of the M performance models from BMW?

This is really funny! All the Supra fans say that the Supra is a big miss for Toyota because the car is 90% BMW. Then the Supra "beats" the Z4 in a test and it is now a big miss for BMW

Right?

BMW and Toyota laid it out bare - the Supra and Z4, despite sharing components, are different cars and should perform differently on the road. But nope, everyone kept saying they're the same car, rebadged this and that. So I am not sure why people are making comments about Toyota "outdid" BMW. They are configured differently for different purposes and their reported Nurburgring times should have hinted that (7:40 vs. 7:55) instead having to watch this comparison which only proves what BMW and Toyota have said all along. Two different cars for different purposes/audience.

[nullspace]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Right?

BMW and Toyota laid it out bare - the Supra and Z4, despite sharing components, are different cars and should perform differently on the road. But nope, everyone kept saying they're the same car, rebadged this and that. So I am not sure why people are making comments about Toyota "outdid" BMW. They are configured differently for different purposes and their reported Nurburgring times should have hinted that (7:40 vs. 7:55) instead having to watch this comparison which only proves what BMW and Toyota have said all along. Two different cars for different purposes/audience.

Toyota says they think it can do 7:40, but they haven't actually accomplished it. Though your point stands. I never cross-shopped the two - the Supra just didn't fit my use case.

[heavyD^2]

It's pretty obvious that the Supra is packing more heat than advertised as it's considerably faster than a Z4 in a straight line as proven by CarWow.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

they imply that the particulate filter is the reason for the 42hp drop, but I suspect it's mostly just a different tune and spec between the two motors.

Dave

Euro M2 Comp runs more boost(.2 bar) to compensate for the particulate filters.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by nullspace

Toyota says they think it can do 7:40, but they haven't actually accomplished it. Though your point stands. I never cross-shopped the two - the Supra just didn't fit my use case.

same here; I wouldn't buy a 2 seat coupe (or a Toyota for that matter) - just not interested. My Z4 comparisons were the Boxster S, SLC43AMG, Audi TT, Jaguar F type, not a hardtop Toyota. That said the two cars are almost identical under the skin; same engine, same tranny, same rear end, same brakes, same suspension, track, WB, tires. etc. etc. ......Steering knuckle, damper settings, rear sway bar and now, obviously, engine tune are the notable mechanical changes. not much.

We know that the Supra's BMW engine puts out 339rwhp. We know the NA M40i's engine puts out 373rwhp and based on this drag test, the euro Z4 has to be putting out a fair chunk less than the Supra. 5/10's in the quarter is significant and the only way the Supra could accomplish that is with more power, which can only mean a better tune in this case. Odd, I would have thought BMW would have provided the identical tune in both the Supra and Euro Z4's B58B30M1 engines.....clearly not.



Dave

[heavyD^2]

I'm not surprised the Supra is faster but it should be closer. I wonder why BMW doesn't use a similar tune so the M40i can show better against a Boxter.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

It's pretty obvious that the Supra is packing more heat than the Euro Z4 as it's considerably faster than a Z4 in a straight line as proven by CarWow.

Fixed it for you. ;-)

Dave

[supra93]

Originally Posted by xlover

This result makes perfect sense these are the same car under the skin....

In what car is the convertible version ever faster than the coupe???? The Supra should be faster!

More bracing for the open top adds weight
Top mechanism adds weight
Plus the bmw has more driver aid and safety tech which adds weight
Not to mention more sound proofing and other luxury touches

If the Supra wasn't faster that would not make sense

The E85/E86 M Roadster vs M Coupe.

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

There's no difference in Euro Spec Supra and US spec in terms of hp. 340hp for both. So they say. I bet it's much more than that.

Correct, the only differences is the particulate filter.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

Fixed it for you. ;-)

Dave

I don't follow you? That was also a Euro Supra.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I don't follow you? That was also a Euro Supra.

The Supra is rated at 335hp regardless of whether or not it's sold in North America or Europe. The Z4 M40i gets a different and more powerful 382 (rated) hp motor in North America therefore the Supra appears to be faster and more powerful than the European Z4 M40i but it hasn't been run against the faster North American M40i which uses a different engine - B58B30O1. Based on the dyno results (https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1621271) for both the Supra and the North American Z4 M40i, it would seem than the North American Z4 M40i has a significant power advantage over the Supra which would imply a different drag race result than the one CarWow posted.

...that's about as clear as I can get.

Cheers,
Dave

[SMED]

This article tells you all the differences in the B58 US vs Euro spec. It's not just the exhaust.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roa...mw-z4-engines/

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

The Supra is rated at 335hp regardless of whether or not it's sold in North America or Europe. The Z4 M40i gets a different and more powerful 382 (rated) hp motor in North America therefore the Supra appears to be faster and more powerful than the European Z4 M40i but it hasn't been run against the faster North American M40i which uses a different engine - B58B30O1. Based on the dyno results (https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1621271) for both the Supra and the North American Z4 M40i, it would seem than the North American Z4 M40i has a significant power advantage over the Supra which would imply a different drag race result than the one CarWow posted.

...that's about as clear as I can get.

Cheers,
Dave

I still think the Supra will be slightly quicker. It's clearly making more than advertised so the horsepower ratings on paper really won't mean much. The Euro model wasn't even close in the carwow video so the North American version will have to be considerably quicker to close the gap.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I still think the Supra will be slightly quicker. It's clearly making more than advertised so the horsepower ratings on paper really won't mean much. The Euro model wasn't even close in the carwow video so the North American version will have to be considerably quicker to close the gap.

The B58 in the M40i is also making more than advertised - we only have one dyno result so far but it was +34hp compared to the Supra dyno and hp is all that matters since the rest of the car is virtually identical. Unless BMW sold Toyota an engine that outperforms the higher rated variant of the same engine, the results are predictable.

Dave

[Joe240]

If anyone knows someone with a Supra on order (apparently Toyota isn't allowing delivery until the 22nd), send them my way. I'd love to do a side by side comparison. I also just put my B58 JB4 on the car and very curious if it will help the Supra in any way (only way to tell is to wire it up). If it works, be a nice jumpstart for these cars since BMW apparently upgraded security and BM3 doesn't work on them at the moment.

[DPelletier]

How does it feel with the JB4?

Dave

[Joe240]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

How does it feel with the JB4?

Dave

Still working out some bugs. The settings it came with (when originally purchased in 2016) I guess are obsolete for the B58? Working with support at the moment. Dyno showed a tad less hp and a tad more tq so I’m assuming no change, even when put on map2. However, it was put on at the dyno so not sure if there’s any adaption time for the ecu or not. Put it back on this morning for troubleshooting. Original settings seemed a jumpy (power wasn’t consistent throughout the powerband, would have some small blips during acceleration). Fixed the settings and it feels more linear now.

It’s difficult to really say because the car was quick before. My butt dyno says yea there’s a little more there. My mind says not really. Map2 is only +3 PSI so not a huge gain. Terry is reviewing things at the moment, but without doing some comparison logs between maps, probably on the dyno, it’s difficult to say. He mentioned timing is down, IAT is up. Which I did notice the IAT runs 110-120F even when cruising at 75mph down the highway. My M240i would only hit that when at rest, cruising would be high 90s at speed, 110ish at rest (more noticeable when the CAI was on).

But I have faith that Terry and Ando at Burger will get it figured out. I’m curious after driving on it for a day if it is making more power now

[supra93]

Another comparison vid.

[Wills2]

The Carwow vid shows the Supra doing the 1/4 mile in 12 secs and it's the lower powered UK version.

Carwow tested an M3 CS and RS4 at 12.1 seconds so I don't get how the Supra is doing that.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Wills2

The Carwow vid shows the Supra doing the 1/4 mile in 12 secs and it's the lower powered UK version.

Carwow tested an M3 CS and RS4 at 12.1 seconds so I don't get how the Supra is doing that.

Toyota is under reporting the hp figure. On a dyno, the actual output is around 400 hp.

[Patgilm]

One tuner in the U.S. just did some real world testing in the new Supra and it ran mid 12’s at 111 which is basically what most magazines said vs. this one anomalous test where it ran a 12.0.