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      02-10-2020, 11:52 PM   #1
Thunderguts
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A car to last until the end of ICE vehicles

In a couple years, I'm going to be shopping for a car to get me to the end of ICE vehicles which I suspect will be about 20-25 years from now. I have two toy cars now, my 128i and a Bullitt Mustang. My wife and I share an Outback and she has a new Civic. I plan to keep my toys as long as I can get parts to maintain them, but I'm looking for my last daily driver.

I hate most new cars. I hate nannies, I hate touch screens, I hate CVTs, and get off my F%#@in' lawn! The only new cars that interest me are an STI, Civic Type R, M2, BRZ, and maaaaybe a 370Z. I'm also open to low-mileage used cars that are easy to work on and reliable enough to last 25 years with some maintenance.

Rules:
1) Must be a manual
2) Can't be more than around $40k
3) Needs to be comfortable enough for a daily driver and occasional road trips

My musings...
2015-ish Tacoma V6--available with a manual, sans nannies, lasts forever, but shit gas mileage. Not fun, but damn useful.
2015-ish Shelby GT350--amazing track weapon, but harsh on the street and I don't know about 25 year longevity.
E46 M3--Yeah I wish. Perfect car for me, but longevity is definitely in question. I wouldn't call it easy to maintain either and $$$.
Subaru BRZ--Fun, cheap, and easy to maintain. Not a great long-distance tourer though.

Dark horse candidates
2021 Bronco 2 door--It will probably be packed with gadgets and gizmos, but maybe not. Also rumored to have a manual option.
Totally restored/restomodded 240Z--I cut my teeth on a '76 280Z. It was my first car. Easy to maintain, fun, eternal classic. Would need modern AC, but doable. Simple enough I could probably keep it running 25 years. Not very comfortable though and prices are getting up there.
Mercedes W124 500E--I've always wanted one of these. One got away from me and I never got over it. Built like a tank, but it's already 25 years old. It's not a manual, but I'd make a rare exception for one. Could I keep it running reliably for another 20 years. Hmm...


What other ideas have you got???

Last edited by Thunderguts; 02-11-2020 at 12:08 AM..
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      02-11-2020, 12:04 AM   #2
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it gotta have a V8. thus, I'd pick a gt350 out of your list. or maybe some manual challenger with hemi or some chevy camaro with ls. or cts-v. basically, anything with v8.
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      02-11-2020, 12:07 AM   #3
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I dunno all the cars you mention, except for the tacoma, sound like toy cars also. Not sure any of them would be very comfortable or great for road trips.

But I'll throw some out there

Chevy SS
Honda Accord Sport
Focus RS
GTI/GLI
Older G37/G35
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      02-11-2020, 12:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
I dunno all the cars you mention, except for the tacoma, sound like toy cars also. Not sure any of them would be very comfortable or great for road trips.

But I'll throw some out there

Chevy SS
Honda Accord Sport
Focus RS
GTI/GLI
Older G37/G35

Yeah, I suppose I'm looking for a 3rd toy to take up most of the daily driving tasks to make the other two last longer. The Accord is a pretty good choice. I'd probably go for the V6 Coupe, though. It's quick, reliable, quiet, and probably fun with some suspension tweaks. I forgot about that one.
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      02-11-2020, 02:10 AM   #5
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G37 or 370z will last forever. Very reliable.
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      02-11-2020, 10:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
G37 or 370z will last forever. Very reliable.
I was in love with the G37 for a while. We had an EX35 at the time and it was an awesome little SUV. I got a lot of G35 loaners also and thought a G37 with a manual would be amazing.

So one day I bought one at Carmax of all places. Luckily they have a 7 day money back guarantee. Color I wanted, great shape, but I found that manual transmission and engine pairing soooo bad. Transmission felt very sloppy, clutch also kinda springy if that makes any sense. Then while the engine felt great in the automatic, in the manual it just felt sooo slow to rev, rev matching was a pita. Ended up returning it before the 7 days were up. Only car I have ever owned that I think is actually way better as an automatic.

But maybe it's just me, lots of people like the manual on it.
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      02-11-2020, 11:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
In a couple years, I'm going to be shopping for a car to get me to the end of ICE vehicles which I suspect will be about 20-25 years from now. I have two toy cars now, my 128i and a Bullitt Mustang. My wife and I share an Outback and she has a new Civic. I plan to keep my toys as long as I can get parts to maintain them, but I'm looking for my last daily driver.

I hate most new cars. I hate nannies, I hate touch screens, I hate CVTs, and get off my F%#@in' lawn! The only new cars that interest me are an STI, Civic Type R, M2, BRZ, and maaaaybe a 370Z. I'm also open to low-mileage used cars that are easy to work on and reliable enough to last 25 years with some maintenance.

Rules:
1) Must be a manual
2) Can't be more than around $40k
3) Needs to be comfortable enough for a daily driver and occasional road trips

My musings...
2015-ish Tacoma V6--available with a manual, sans nannies, lasts forever, but shit gas mileage. Not fun, but damn useful.
2015-ish Shelby GT350--amazing track weapon, but harsh on the street and I don't know about 25 year longevity.
E46 M3--Yeah I wish. Perfect car for me, but longevity is definitely in question. I wouldn't call it easy to maintain either and $$$.
Subaru BRZ--Fun, cheap, and easy to maintain. Not a great long-distance tourer though.

Dark horse candidates
2021 Bronco 2 door--It will probably be packed with gadgets and gizmos, but maybe not. Also rumored to have a manual option.
Totally restored/restomodded 240Z--I cut my teeth on a '76 280Z. It was my first car. Easy to maintain, fun, eternal classic. Would need modern AC, but doable. Simple enough I could probably keep it running 25 years. Not very comfortable though and prices are getting up there.
Mercedes W124 500E--I've always wanted one of these. One got away from me and I never got over it. Built like a tank, but it's already 25 years old. It's not a manual, but I'd make a rare exception for one. Could I keep it running reliably for another 20 years. Hmm...


What other ideas have you got???
Chevy SS(total sleeper, comfortable but handles well and has an LS engine)
STI
GtI
Camaro SS 1le- decent ride quality, comparable performance to gt350 but cheaper and more reliable.
Lexus isf- reliable,v8 good driving car but no manual
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      02-11-2020, 11:31 AM   #8
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Exception? Why manual?

Toyota 4Runner, any year
Pre-2020 Mercedes GLE350
Last generation (in the US) VW Touareg
2001 Toyota RAV4

Your requirements and examples are all over the map.
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      02-11-2020, 11:50 AM   #9
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used Jaguar F type S.
3.0 V6 supercharged (no turbo lag, great engine 380HP)
comes with LSD, as any drivers car should.
Available in manual (but rare), although I'm not 100% sure if it was sold this way in the US (I'm in europe)
Looks awesome and will still look awesome in 20 years.

reliability....on average a supercharger is more reliable than a turbo as it has less components, less hoses/rubber parts that age and a supercharger runs cooler.

Personally I would also look at a Corvette, but as it's not mentioned and such an obvious option, this is probably not your taste.
(in europe a corvette is not a common sight, so that makes it automatically interesting)
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Last edited by GuidoK; 02-11-2020 at 12:05 PM..
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      02-11-2020, 12:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
used Jaguar F type S.
3.0 V6 supercharged (no turbo lag, great engine 380HP)
comes with LSD, as any drivers car should.
Available in manual (but rare), although I'm not 100% sure if it was sold this way in the US (I'm in europe)
Looks awesome and will still look awesome in 20 years.

reliability....on average a supercharger is more reliable than a turbo as it has less components, less hoses/rubber parts that age and a supercharger runs cooler.

Personally I would also look at a Corvette, but as it's not mentioned and such an obvious option, this is probably not your taste.
(in europe a corvette is not a common sight, so that makes it automatically interesting)
You couldn't pay me enough to drive the stupid Jag "V6". Talk about 'I coulda hate a V8". Well, you do, and you don't.
[IMG]https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...000728034a.jpg[/IMG]
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      02-11-2020, 01:18 PM   #11
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Haha, I didn't know that about them. It's often done when developing new engines; build something similar out of stock parts (even 2cyl of a v12), and see if you can get it to do what you want. Never seen one make it to production like that though!


OP, I'm really not sure what you want...your examples are so varied. No bad thing, but makes it harder to make recommendations

Personally I'd go for a low powered drivers car, and for me that's the BRZ/GT86. High powered cars are pointless where I live, and I agree that manual is the way for maximum driver involvement. No idea if they'd last for 25 years though.
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      02-11-2020, 01:28 PM   #12
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I second the Chevy SS.

Also, check out Panamera GTS.

Both of those cars almost made it in my garage instead of the M3. Panamera parts may not be available for the length of time you need, but Chevy SS for sure! Corvette drivetrain and extremely popular for good reason. LS3 is a beast. Can get with manual. I didn't buy one simply because they cost more used than they ever did new. Look at 2015 and later. They came with mag ride those years. 2014 only had an automatic anyhow. And yes, they're RWD...
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      02-11-2020, 01:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
2021 Bronco 2 door--It will probably be packed with gadgets and gizmos, but maybe not. Also rumored to have a manual option.
Wait for it...
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      02-11-2020, 01:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
I'm looking for my last daily driver.

I hate most new cars.

Rules:
1) Must be a manual
2) Can't be more than around $40k
3) Needs to be comfortable enough for a daily driver and occasional road trips
So I hear you, ever since the 2010 model years, while each car released has gotten quieter, more powerful, safer, and more efficient, they also are less desirable. Each year I hope for something interesting, and inevitably its a let down as the version that catches my eye isn't sold stateside.

The key here is daily driver. You sort of are shooting yourself in the foot by asking for a manual DD because that pretty much limits you to the honda accord sport. There are no other options.*

If you dropped the manual requirement you can get some other nice machines too.

Seth


*Only cars available with a stick are:
BMW 2/3/4 ruled out because you have one. (although a nice 4 series would replace the function of your mustang and 1 series, but I get it's an emotional thing).

Camaro/Mustang/Challenger/BRZ/124/miata/corvette/veloster/370z out because you have one. Only the challenger is really a DD anyway on this list due to its size and comfort.

Genesis G70 not in budget. Neither is the Evora or Cayman or 911.

Chevy spark not worth it, same for the Accent or Mirage. (NVH on long trips).

Honda Civic/Fit not worth it when there is the accord. Same logic with the Corolla/Yaris or Forte. Same logic with the Mazda3 and the Versa too. Same for Golf/Jetta.

Only close option is the Elantra GT or WRX but there's that Accord again.
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      02-11-2020, 01:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethwas View Post
Honda Civic/Fit not worth it when there is the Accord. Same logic with the Corolla/Yaris or Forte. Same logic with the Mazda3 and the Versa too. Same for Golf/Jetta.
The new Mazda's are fantastic, very very upscale and refined interiors, little to no road noise, Android Auto and Apple Carplay, extremely comfy, 40+ mpg easy, etc... Love my fiance's 2019 Mazda 3 hatch. Also comes in under the Accord in terms of price, and over the Accord in terms of room. Look at a top trim 2019 Mazda 3 Hatch in Polymetal Grey with the Maroon interior, and tell me it isn't sweet. CAN be had in manual, but FWD only. If you want AWD, you gotta go for the auto, which is surprisingly good for a slush box. The ONLY Accord I would get, would be the one with the 2.0T motor from the Civic Type R, and even then, meh.
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      02-11-2020, 02:35 PM   #16
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I would get anything NA V8 and with as few electronics as possible (base model). Since they rev lower, I think they last longer and with fewer bells and whistles, fewer things to break over time. It immediately makes me think Dodge Challenger Widebody RT, Mustang GT, Camaro SS or Corvette. Corvette is great since it essentially wont rust and it's difficult to get dings in the doors etc.
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      02-11-2020, 02:35 PM   #17
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Civic Type R is a great drive but you'd have to like the styling and I don't see how that's possible. Focus RS would be appealing if you can handle the awful interior. Mk8 Golf R should be good, 324hp, likely a stronger rear bias to the Haldex setup and possibly less weight than the Mk7, but also not confirmed with a manual.

I'm a dissenter for the Mazda, absolutely hated the 2.5L motor in my 2016 hatch, terrible lump that killed a fun chassis and the new one has a much cheaper chassis. All style with no substance anymore.

It's not a great, or even good road car, and frankly, bad at even grocery runs, but if I had the garage space for one, I'd have an ND Miata, a wildly better car than the sad Toyobaru.
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      02-11-2020, 09:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
You couldn't pay me enough to drive the stupid Jag "V6". Talk about 'I coulda hate a V8". Well, you do, and you don't.
[IMG]https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...000728034a.jpg[/IMG]
Sure it's not ideal from a sportscar POV, but it's a bit similar to getting a bmw with a 2,5L where there is also a 3.0L, where the 2,5L has a smaller stroke and there is still unused space in the block. (whereas did they make a bespoke 2,5L the block would have sat lower in the chassis). Still its a good engine power/torquecurve/responsiveness wise.

Obviously the V8 would be better, but it doesn't come with a manual. If only......
Oh well, then a Corvette it must be
If tech features/decisions with a reason is important to you, the corvette is interesting, as it is so different to other sportscars. (but not worse, just different)

I think a nice 911 with an engine generation that doesn't have the huge elephants in the room (IMS, boring score etc) is out of the budget. One could argue that a 911 is difficult to work on, but that also goes for just about any modern turbocharged car.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 02-11-2020 at 09:19 PM..
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      02-11-2020, 09:07 PM   #19
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2015 M4

It does everything, and does everything well. Not to mention it's shaping up to be about the most reliable ///M car ever made.

When I moved to Miami I drove 1,300 miles with the car, loaded down with around 300lbs of shit in the trunk, backseats, and passenger's seat and it was still amazing.

What a gotdamned car, get one in a flashy color and it still turns heads and elicits smiles like it's brand new and never seen before.
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      02-12-2020, 03:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
I was in love with the G37 for a while. We had an EX35 at the time and it was an awesome little SUV. I got a lot of G35 loaners also and thought a G37 with a manual would be amazing.

So one day I bought one at Carmax of all places. Luckily they have a 7 day money back guarantee. Color I wanted, great shape, but I found that manual transmission and engine pairing soooo bad. Transmission felt very sloppy, clutch also kinda springy if that makes any sense. Then while the engine felt great in the automatic, in the manual it just felt sooo slow to rev, rev matching was a pita. Ended up returning it before the 7 days were up. Only car I have ever owned that I think is actually way better as an automatic.

But maybe it's just me, lots of people like the manual on it.
Yea Iím not sure, I had 2 G37ís with a manual and theyíve been great. The clutch is a bit difficult to get used to but I was fine after the first few days. The gearbox I really liked, very mechanical feeling. If I wanted a car to last 25 years, thatís the one Iíd go with. Iíve continuously seen these cars over 200k miles running great.
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      02-12-2020, 10:36 AM   #21
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I would vote for a 2016 M2. One of the best handling M cars ever built. Plenty of power for the road. And not a bad track car. An M2C would be a faster track car but very little difference as a daily driver.
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      02-12-2020, 01:10 PM   #22
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me personally i'd steer clear of anything turbo. I say that because a hybrid+turbo setup is going to be better in every way compared to just a turbo setup, because the battery is eliminating the lag. But you still don't get the NA sound.

i'd skip the gt350 and go with a e92 comp pack.
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