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      09-11-2017, 03:30 PM   #1321
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Will we be seeing the G20 in Frankfurt?
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
No. I would guess we'll see it no sooner than we saw the G30 prior to it's debut. So, next summer sometime. Just under a year from now.
I doubt we'll see the G20 before October 2018. In fact, I don't recall a public intro of a new-gen model, while the current model still has >1 month left on the production lines. And we know the F30 gets produced until Oct 2018.

For reference, the F30 was intro'd on Oct 14, 2011. The E90 was just wrapping up production that same month.
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      09-11-2017, 03:45 PM   #1322
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Quote:
September 2017
8 series news: market intro summer 2018. Many things we saw in the concept are going into production, the mad instrument cluster and laser lights are some of them. A standout option (something we never had as an actual selectable option) is CF roof available with M Sport. Engines are a mixed bag: diesels seem to be carried over from current models, but lucky for us here we don't care for diesels, what matters is the 850i (note the absence of "M"): the revised N63 will produce well over 500hp. This should make most people happy, I think.
B48TU in 30i vehicles will get a small power increase to 255hp. This is the engine G20 330i will come with.
Speaking of G20, it's getting all the cool toys we've seen or only heard about. The same new instrument panel as the 8, special diff included with ZMP, ambient light, laser lights (even US cars), significantly improved autonomous driving capabilities, etc. A totally unexpected addition is remote engine start. But overall, interior quality and equipment are going to match or exceed the new X3.
B58TU will also get a small power increase to 335hp in non-M 40i versions. We'll see it in G05 first.
N63 will get a small power bump for G05/G06 to 465hp. This is not a new revision, but the same one as the current 50i, just tuned a little.
S63 may get a small power bump in F95/F96 compared to F90. Really small.
G05: same toys again: the new instrument panel, optional laser lights (LED standard), and it looks like M Sport will come with 21" or 22" wheels. Which I think is crazy.
F95 X5 M is confirmed as MY2020. 2019 is going to be very busy for M cars.
i3 with the 120Ah battery will be available in 2018 as a MY2019.
F44 2GC (2 Series Gran Coupe) is confirmed for the U.S.
G05 = new X5?
remote start is not a new feature, it was present in the last F1* models as a option as well.
About the i3 120Ah version, it´s due in July 2018 i belive, wonder what kind of battery the e mini will be delivered with?
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      09-11-2017, 04:09 PM   #1323
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A RWD 2 series GC would have been much more special.
I don't see the point of an RS3 Sedan when you can have a basic M3 instead, or an M2 if you want a smaller size vehicle.
A3 Sedan and CLA are overpriced vehicles, in this class an Octavia RS or even a Jetta are the correct choices. At least in Europe
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      09-11-2017, 04:29 PM   #1324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
G05 = new X5?
remote start is not a new feature, it was present in the last F1* models as a option as well.
Keep in mind all my posts are written with the U.S. POV.
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      09-11-2017, 04:46 PM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
A RWD 2 series GC would have been much more special.
I don't see the point of an RS3 Sedan when you can have a basic M3 instead, or an M2 if you want a smaller size vehicle.
A3 Sedan and CLA are overpriced vehicles, in this class an Octavia RS or even a Jetta are the correct choices. At least in Europe
Some of us don't want a car as large as the F30/F80 has become. Of course VW/Audi seems to have exclusive rights to the latest Haldex that puts down more power to the rear and a constant flow to the back, so unless BMW strikes out on their own like Ford did with the Focus RS, an xDrive 2er would be 99% fwd, much like the A/GLA/CLA 45.
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      09-11-2017, 06:21 PM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
A RWD 2 series GC would have been much more special.
I don't see the point of an RS3 Sedan when you can have a basic M3 instead, or an M2 if you want a smaller size vehicle.
A3 Sedan and CLA are overpriced vehicles, in this class an Octavia RS or even a Jetta are the correct choices. At least in Europe
Agreed!! The F30 has got too big and G20 will be bigger still. RWD 2 series GC would be perfect for me... will it happen??

With A3 saloon and CLA, surely BMW has to get into this market!?
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      09-11-2017, 06:31 PM   #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I doubt we'll see the G20 before October 2018. In fact, I don't recall a public intro of a new-gen model, while the current model still has >1 month left on the production lines. And we know the F30 gets produced until Oct 2018.
Sure, I was just going from memory on the recent G30 release, which I'd expect the G20 timetable to mirror closely. US HEA Order Guides (FWIW) for that vehicle did come in late September (of 2016), but I was thinking we saw them late August for some reason.

In any case, we both agree that we're way too early yet for any official G20 info.
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      09-11-2017, 07:21 PM   #1328
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Very heartbreaking to see the beautiful 6 series being discontinued in exchange for ridiculous SUVs
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      09-11-2017, 07:34 PM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dveshawn View Post
Very heartbreaking to see the beautiful 6 series being discontinued in exchange for ridiculous SUVs
Haven't you noticed all the discussions about the 8 series?
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      09-11-2017, 07:56 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dveshawn View Post
Very heartbreaking to see the beautiful 6 series being discontinued in exchange for ridiculous SUVs
Haven't you noticed all the discussions about the 8 series?
He just wants to lament
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      09-11-2017, 08:56 PM   #1331
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And BMW slowly becomes Audi. Zero differentiation. Same model strategy: smaller turbo (2.0T), mid level performance (S4 vs M440), and high performance (RS4 vs M4), yes, M for both since BMW is unfortunately extending the M nomenclature to every possible model.

Now BMW is slowly switching to FWD and AWD only options, same as Audi.

At what point does the ?Ultimate Driving Machine? apply only to certain models? :

With this lack of differentiation, BMW while gaining a broader market share, will loose its core customer base, eventually becoming just another brand.
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      09-11-2017, 10:01 PM   #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nozydog View Post
Agreed!! The F30 has got too big and G20 will be bigger still. RWD 2 series GC would be perfect for me... will it happen??

With A3 saloon and CLA, surely BMW has to get into this market!?
And use one of Paul's renderings as inspiration...
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      09-12-2017, 01:26 AM   #1333
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the sub "M" models are getting so overplayed now...its pretty much across the brand lineup.
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      09-12-2017, 06:37 AM   #1334
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Since we found out that the new 8 actually wasn't a coupé 7 but more like a new 6 in terms of philosophy and dimensions, therefore technically related to the 5 although branded as 8, it seemed pretty predictable that the 8's engine range wouldn't mimic the 7's (regular non-M Performance V8 750i, M Performance V12 M760i) but rather the 5's (M Performance V8 M550i, V8 M5, no V12).

However if the new info turns out to be true regarding the non-M V8 powered 8 Series being marketed as simply 850i, not M850i as expected, and yet have 'well over 500hp' which is notably more than the M Performance M550i, then it suddenly becomes plausible that the 8's engine range in the end will resemble the 7's, as it logically should, meaning a non-M Performance V8 850i and potentially an M Performance V12 M860i, with the addition of a V8 M8. To support this claim, BMW seems to want to endow every model in its range with an M Performance version and it would be strange to say the least if the flagship 8 didn't have such a version, and if it's not the V8 (850i instead of M850i) than it must be the V12 (M860i). Does the V12 fit under the 8's hood though?

Last edited by advantage20; 09-12-2017 at 12:13 PM..
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      09-12-2017, 07:01 AM   #1335
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Does this mean that there will be no AWD 2GC with a manual? Here in Canada the AWD M235i is only available as an auto. However, one can get a AWD 335i as a manual but not the 435i GC. Never understood BMW's thought process behind this. Make the sportier versions auto only for the enthusiast?? Hoping somebody at BMW slaps a product manager across the face and tells them to wake the F up. I want a small manual 4 door or wagon, somebody make one.
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      09-12-2017, 07:57 AM   #1336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
Since we found out that the new 8 actually wasn't a coupé 7 but more like a new 6 in terms of philosophy and dimensions, therefore technically related to the 5 although branded as 8, it seemed pretty predictable that the 8's engine range wouldn't mimic the 7's (regular non-M Performance V8 750i, M Performance V12 M760i) but rather the 5's (M Performance V8 M550i, V8 M5, no V12).
I didn't expect that at all. I expected an 840i, 850i and M8, just as ynguldyn had been saying. So, similar to the 7 Series, except there is a true M vehicle (M8) instead of an M Performance vehicle (M860i). Why not both an M vehicle and M Performance vehicle like the 1 through 6 Series will feature (well, perhaps not the 6)? Well, I'd venture to guess that BMW did their homework and found that the existence of the M8 would make an M860i superfluous from a customer interest perspective.

Quote:
However if the new info turns out to be true regarding the non-M V8 powered 8 Series being marketed as simply 850i, not M850i as expected, and yet have 'well over 500hp' which is notably more than the M Performance M550i..
This is simply the normal progression of things. The 750i, M550i, M650i, X5 M50i, and X6 M50i will no doubt get more power eventually as well. Perhaps not as much as the 850i, but they will no doubt see increases over their lifespans.

Quote:
...then it suddenly becomes plausible that the 8's engine range in the end will resemble the 7's, as it logically should, meaning a non-M Performance V8 850i and potentially an M Performance V12 M860i, with the addition of a V8 M8. To support this claim, BMW seems to want to endow every model in its range with the M Performance version and it would be strange to say the least if the flagship 8 didn't have such a version, and if it's not the V8 (850i instead of M850i) than it must be the V12 (M860i). Does the V12 fit under the 8's hood though?
I disagree.

First off, I don't think it is any more strange for there not to be an M860i than it is strange that there is not an M7. Secondly, there is yet the opportunity for an M860e with V8 + eDrive.

You almost surely won't see a V12 X7, and similarly I don't think there is much chance for a V12 8 Series. The question is, what will the X7 do with no flagship? Well, this might be the perfect vehicle to introduce this theoretical M*60e drivetrain, no? Seems like a great opportunity to me. We'll see what they have in store.
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      09-12-2017, 08:25 AM   #1337
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Originally Posted by honestzergtea View Post
the sub "M" models are getting so overplayed now...its pretty much across the brand lineup.
Honestly, I think the Sub M models shouldn't be scoffed at. Its the closest you can get without paying the M Tax. Even more so if you lean more towards having it as a daily driver while still getting the most performance you get without making your wallet cry.

Good to see the "its the 4 door version of the 2 door version of the 4 door version" joke lives on
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      09-12-2017, 08:52 AM   #1338
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Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
And BMW slowly becomes Audi. Zero differentiation. Same model strategy: smaller turbo (2.0T), mid level performance (S4 vs M440), and high performance (RS4 vs M4), yes, M for both since BMW is unfortunately extending the M nomenclature to every possible model.

Now BMW is slowly switching to FWD and AWD only options, same as Audi.

At what point does the ?Ultimate Driving Machine? apply only to certain models? :

With this lack of differentiation, BMW while gaining a broader market share, will loose its core customer base, eventually becoming just another brand.
They do still have RWD + 6sp manual options. This alone differentiates substantially from Audi. For now. On the other side of the world, Audi has a RWD R8, 6mt. Anything can happen.
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      09-12-2017, 09:00 AM   #1339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
And BMW slowly becomes Audi. Zero differentiation. Same model strategy: smaller turbo (2.0T), mid level performance (S4 vs M440), and high performance (RS4 vs M4), yes, M for both since BMW is unfortunately extending the M nomenclature to every possible model.

Now BMW is slowly switching to FWD and AWD only options, same as Audi.

At what point does the ?Ultimate Driving Machine? apply only to certain models? :

With this lack of differentiation, BMW while gaining a broader market share, will loose its core customer base, eventually becoming just another brand.
yep. slowly but surely I'm going towards the letter P for the next vehicles.
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      09-12-2017, 10:19 AM   #1340
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I can't wait for the new G20! They just better bring it to the U.S. With a 6spd Manual Transmission option!

I envision doing Euro Delivery with a fully loaded M340i with a 6MT for around a $75k USD MSRP. I want pretty much every single option on the new G20, maybe even go Individual. San Marino Blue? Hell yeah! Laser Headlights? Hells yes! Would be awesome if they allowed the G20 to also have an option for a Rear Seat Entertainment Package like the 5 and 7 get. I just want an awesome and comfortable new daily driver to compliment my high powered F10 M5, but I want it to be fun, so it's got to have that 6MT.
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      09-12-2017, 11:14 AM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termigni View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
And BMW slowly becomes Audi. Zero differentiation. Same model strategy: smaller turbo (2.0T), mid level performance (S4 vs M440), and high performance (RS4 vs M4), yes, M for both since BMW is unfortunately extending the M nomenclature to every possible model.

Now BMW is slowly switching to FWD and AWD only options, same as Audi.

At what point does the ?Ultimate Driving Machine? apply only to certain models? :

With this lack of differentiation, BMW while gaining a broader market share, will loose its core customer base, eventually becoming just another brand.
yep. slowly but surely I'm going towards the letter P for the next vehicles.
And my next SUV will probably be an XC90, new Discovery or even the new 2019 Explorer Sport.

BMW is increasingly becoming so mainstream that for the first time in over 17 years I can actually see myself driving another brand. I have lost that passion for the brand. Every model shares yet again the same engines, the dilution of the M brand has lost the loyalty of most M owners, and now the introduction of FWD to the Ultimate Driving Machine.
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      09-13-2017, 03:32 PM   #1342
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