09-18-2019, 04:00 PM | #23 |
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Mission Performance recently did a dyno baseline for an M340i xdrive and I believe they were in the 335-345 range. Which is quite respectable. Kind of like the M240i (not surprising since same engine)
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09-18-2019, 04:06 PM | #24 | |
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The reason most just use percentages is because things like the differential, transmission, and the general durability/weight of these components are probably matched to the power output of the vehicle. A smaller car would have lighter components since heavier components would be unnecessary and slow the car down more. Also, as engine power goes up, a lot of these loss forces are amplified which is why using a percentage is more appropriate than a fixed power figure. However, even this is not totally correct as these changes are not perfectly linear. So the loss is really dynamic and even depends on which gear you're in. |
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09-18-2019, 04:51 PM | #25 |
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wow little monster
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09-18-2019, 05:55 PM | #26 |
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Just curious, does anyone know if the B58 on the Z4 is the same as the Supra? The Supra community has unlocked a lot of HP and assuming they're the same then the numbers should be similar to the Supra.
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09-18-2019, 07:44 PM | #27 | |
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![]() Folks need to get more familiar with power rating standards and the operation of modern turbocharged engines...
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09-18-2019, 07:51 PM | #28 | |
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Look at a MAHA dyno graph, this brand of dyno does a good job of measuring losses and graphing them by RPM. |
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09-18-2019, 08:41 PM | #29 | |
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So the people getting 340s now are down like 60hp over the first releases(if they didn't get ecu updates). Or the car reviews that were early on were putting out far more power than they are now. The upside is a tune will net A LOT.
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09-18-2019, 08:43 PM | #30 |
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They're underrated numbers from factory. Compare them with most other manufacturers and you'll see that. Ford RS makes almost 70hp less than it's advertised bhp. That's a huge number.
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09-18-2019, 10:14 PM | #31 |
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Impressive numbers.
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09-19-2019, 02:56 AM | #32 | |
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09-19-2019, 05:37 AM | #33 | |
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09-19-2019, 05:39 AM | #34 | |
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B58 from 2016-2019 is similar but not the same.
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09-19-2019, 07:04 AM | #35 | |
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As I said, one needs to get familiar with the SAE and DIN engine power rating standards and understand the operation fundamentals of modern turbocharged engines to understand what is going on with the numbers. In short, engines behave differently when in steady state (constant RPM) than when in transient state (while accelerating). Modern turbocharged engines usually tend to make more power in transient than in steady state in the mid to high RPM band while making less in the lower RPM. Traditionally, power rating standards required the engine to be tested in steady state, which allows for much better control of the test environment for more accurate and repeatable results. The engine is held for a few minutes at a given RPM at WOT until all the parameters stabilize before the measurements are taken. The engine is then accelerated to the next RPM point and left to stabilize, and the process is repeated across the RPM range. With the avenue of modern turbocharged engines, the SAE has modified the standards to allow manufacturers to take advantage of the engine characteristics and now allows them to test in transient if they so desire. The caveat is that they leave it up to the manufacturers to chose which of the two method they want to obtain their ratings, so it makes it difficult to compare numbers between manufacturers. BMW and most European manufacturers choose to stick with the traditional steady state method for their ratings likely because it is more accurate and repeatable. This is why the numbers seem “underrated” when compared to numbers obtained on a chassis dyno that operates in transient state. Excerpt from SAE standard J1349 section 9:
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09-19-2019, 07:27 AM | #36 | ||
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09-19-2019, 07:51 AM | #37 | ||
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Why the discrepancy? |
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09-19-2019, 08:07 AM | #38 | |
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09-19-2019, 08:32 AM | #39 | |||
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09-19-2019, 08:35 AM | #40 | ||||
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09-19-2019, 08:44 AM | #41 | |||||
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75whp = 100 at crank This is a soft figure of difference btw. It's what most people use to assume crank power when seeing wheel power. The 64 hp loss you are noting was derived from a % factor. It will change with the gains/loss in hp. 200hp at wheels =~ 230hp at crank = 30hp difference 400hp at wheels =~ 460 at crank = 60hp difference. Again, this is fuzzy logic that just makes it easy to assume crank hp. But it typically amounts to 15% difference. |
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09-19-2019, 09:19 AM | #42 |
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wow... these numbers are quite impressive, especially for a "Non M" car... isnt this more power than the OG M2 when it was first released? Idk why they still have a ZF 8 speed in this if im not mistaken,
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09-19-2019, 10:03 AM | #43 |
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Well, actually it is not.
There are many different components to drivetrain loss that individually vary to different degrees with load and road speed. So even a blanket percentage is a false assumption. It is just better to leave the whp numbers as they are and avoid trying to speculate crank power from them.
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09-19-2019, 10:06 AM | #44 | |
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Lots of factors play in from humidity, altitude, the dyno itself and the list goes on. |
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