[gblansten]

Originally Posted by speeddeacon

Gotcha. In general Porsche makes sports cars that can be luxurious and BMW makes luxury cars that can be sporty in particular variants (M and M performance). If Porsche made a luxury sedan, I wouldn't buy it. I own both brands and totally agree with that. As for utility, that is completely dependent on the model. A Z4 is no more capable for utility than a Boxster and a Cayenne no more than an X5. Regarding additional models, we'll that is what Volkswagen and Audi are for I suppose.

Porsche has been making luxury sedans under the name Panamera since 2009.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by speeddeacon

Gotcha. In general Porsche makes sports cars that can be luxurious and BMW makes luxury cars that can be sporty in particular variants (M and M performance). If Porsche made a luxury sedan, I wouldn't buy it. I own both brands and totally agree with that. As for utility, that is completely dependent on the model. A Z4 is no more capable for utility than a Boxster and a Cayenne no more than an X5. Regarding additional models, we'll that is what Volkswagen and Audi are for I suppose.

Originally Posted by speeddeacon

Gotcha. In general Porsche makes sports cars that can be luxurious and BMW makes luxury cars that can be sporty in particular variants (M and M performance). If Porsche made a luxury sedan, I wouldn't buy it. I own both brands and totally agree with that. As for utility, that is completely dependent on the model. A Z4 is no more capable for utility than a Boxster and a Cayenne no more than an X5. Regarding additional models, we'll that is what Volkswagen and Audi are for I suppose.

Too bad Audi cars don't handle or feel anywhere close to a Porsche, I can't tell they are related

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I absolutely love a tail happy car.

Probably the thing I like most about the M2 is the ease to bring it back in line with very little effort.

Yeah the M2 may not be as balanced as the Z4, but it sure as hell is more fun 100% of the time.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Yeah the M2 may not be as balanced as the Z4, but it sure as hell is more fun 100% of the time.

What is your experience with the two that you can make that definitive comparison?

[10"]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

I've had two ZF8's; one in my V8 Jaguar F type and now the Z4 M40i - I love 'em both and I have had dozens of manual transmission vehicles (still have three). Negative comments about the ZF are almost 100% from those that are simply mad about the lack of a manual. The ZF has been almost universally lauded by testers and journalists and is a great transmission. I drove several Porsche PDK's and found the ZF to be almost identical in performance but without the low speed "clunkiness" I found in the PDK. A good read: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

As far as the rest; yes the BMW faithful is mad that the Z4 has been compared favorably to the M2 - even by BMW. I find it humorous that a four seat sedan is considered by some to be a better sports car than a 2 seat roadster.... weird.


Dave

Some of us are just drivers who found it to be pretty unstimulating and lackluster that's all. If you're OK with a costcutter gearbox that's fine. Cars are purely subjective in terms of driving enjoyment and But I think sports or sporty cars have a section in chapter 1 about not having a torque converter slushbox. That's all the ZF is; a regular torque converter automatic with some fancy software. Nothing more nothing less...

[10"]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

Not a driver's car, I guess; [IMG]https://iproxy2.motortrak.com/2014/f...290-1024-0.jpg[/IMG]

Dave

Doesn't have a ZF gearbox that's for sure....that would be a massive, hilarious fail.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by 10"

Doesn't have a ZF gearbox that's for sure....that would be a massive, hilarious fail.

So, I guess the C8 Corvette is a massive fail .....?

[10"]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

So, I guess the C8 Corvette is a massive fail .....?

Definitely...but Chevy has a long history of putting bad slushboxes in the Corvette. A lot of their customer base prefers torque converter slushboxes. What's most disappointing is how they'd introduce a Corvette with no transmission choice.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by 10"

Some of us are just drivers who found it to be pretty unstimulating and lackluster that's all. If you're OK with a costcutter gearbox that's fine. Cars are purely subjective in terms of driving enjoyment and But I think sports or sporty cars have a section in chapter 1 about not having a torque converter slushbox. That's all the ZF is; a regular torque converter automatic with some fancy software. Nothing more nothing less...

Regardless of the presence of a torque converter it WORKS great whether or not you like the concept. I don't care if the ZF is cheaper than a DCT or PDK as long as it works well - and it does. And the "some" of you appear to be in the vast minority. I get it: you like manual transmissions....so do I and it's too bad that they are getting harder and harder to find but you are tilting at windmills.

I think sports cars should have only two seats and weigh less than 3500 lbs and get bonus points for the top going down....but I wouldn't suggest that all cars not meeting this criteria aren't good sportscars.

We all like different things and that's fine, but from most unbiased reports the new Z4 is a success and compares favorably to the target market in driving dynamics, etc.....even the ones with DCT's and PDK's and 6 spds.

Cheers,
Dave

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by 10"

Definitely...but Chevy has a long history of putting bad slushboxes in the Corvette. A lot of their customer base prefers torque converter slushboxes. What's most disappointing is how they'd introduce a Corvette with no transmission choice.

Interesting how you define "fail"; I'm not a Corvette fan but this car will outperform anything made by BMW at half the price and look good doing it.


Dave

[Calvin36]

Always did love his reviews and no BS attitude. Great stuff from him.

[speeddeacon]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Porsche has been making luxury sedans under the name Panamera since 2009.

Lol, no the Panamera is a sport sedan. The 7 series is a luxury sedan.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by speeddeacon

Lol, no the Panamera is a sport sedan. The 7 series is a luxury sedan.

The Porsche Panamera Turbo Is the Ultimate $150,000 Luxury Sedan

https://www.autotrader.com/car-video...y-sedan-270195

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

The Porsche Panamera Turbo Is the Ultimate $150,000 Luxury Sedan

https://www.autotrader.com/car-video...y-sedan-270195

Yes. Someone needs to let the entire automotive world know that the Panamera is not a luxury sedan. Because not only is it relentlessly described as one it has won numerous awards as best luxury sedan in the world. Oof.

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Sounds reasonable, but the 4 cyl sounds terrible.

No worries it will not be a UK problem after brexit. BMW will be so expensive here that it will make the owners of current z4 cash out and buy mansions in malibu.

[speeddeacon]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

The Porsche Panamera Turbo Is the Ultimate $150,000 Luxury Sedan

https://www.autotrader.com/car-video...y-sedan-270195

If they say so. My coworker's Panamera is much more akin to an M5 than my 7 Series, but hey, it has 4 doors, leather and PDK so I guess that qualifies it as Luxury rather than sport sedan. I guess there are a lot of S Class and Lexus LS customers cross shopping the Panamera out there. I never would have guessed it.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by speeddeacon

If they say so. My coworker's Panamera is much more akin to an M5 than my 7 Series, but hey, it has 4 doors, leather and PDK so I guess that qualifies it as Luxury rather than sport sedan. I guess there are a lot of S Class and Lexus LS customers cross shopping the Panamera out there. I never would have guessed it.

It's amazing that you drive a BMW and have never heard of a luxury sports sedan. BMW has spent years trying to make their sport sedans luxurious and their luxury sedans sporty. It's a shame you think it can only be one or the other.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

It's amazing that you drive a BMW and have never heard of a luxury sports sedan. BMW has spent years trying to make their sport sedans luxurious and their luxury sedans sporty. It's a shame you think it can only be one or the other.

It's a completely false binary. 99.99999% of the planet would regard the Panamera in its various iterations as the epitome of luxury. It's an amazing car.

[ProperBimmer]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

SupraZ... "It's a bit like going to Oktoberfest in a Kimono"

Chris Harris-

Lol Octoberfest is lame as fuck, been there done that

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by ProperBimmer

Lol Octoberfest is lame as fuck, been there done that

Maybe you personally don't know how to bring life to the party.

[ProperBimmer]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Maybe you personally don't know how to bring life to the party.

Or you can't accept it took Toyota to make a real Bmw? Typical

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by ProperBimmer

Or you can't accept it took Toyota to make a real Bmw? Typical

I can except the truth.

It's a SupraZ.

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