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      03-02-2020, 11:34 AM   #1
M40iSFR
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Focal speaker upgrade

I'm thinking about upgrading the speakers in my car. I got the Harmon Kardon system when I bought it, but it's not great.

Focal have a few options that look decent https://www.focal-inside.com/bmw/en/...ible-2018-g29/ But I'm not sure the kit is completely correct.

According to this breakdown of the HK components:

Name:  s-l1600.jpg
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it should be 7 pairs of tweeter + mid range, plus two subs. The two way speaker in the kit are incorrect.

Questions

1. I'm thinking 7 x the IS BMW 100L kit would be better. But I won't need to use the crossover as that's built in the tweeter output of the HK amp. Does that sound right?

2. I don't see the advantage of buying the amplifier kit and BMW 2 subs instead of using the BMW 4 subs with the amp that came with it. The frequency range of both subs is the same. Only difference is one is 2 ohm the other 4. Does that sound right?

3. If I did buy the additional amp, how difficult would it be to wire?

Focal support haven't been any help.

Last edited by M40iSFR; 03-02-2020 at 11:40 AM..
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      03-02-2020, 02:44 PM   #2
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Personally, I would be cautious based on your last sentence..."Focal support haven't been any help." There are people on here more knowledgeable about your question than me. They will give you some good information.
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      03-02-2020, 07:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M40iSFR View Post
I'm thinking about upgrading the speakers in my car. I got the Harmon Kardon system when I bought it, but it's not great.
What don't you like about it? What sources have you been listening to?

Rob
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      03-03-2020, 11:32 AM   #4
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      03-06-2020, 09:51 PM   #5
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HK system sucks

My 2014 and 2016 had a killer sound system. (premium sound option) it sounded better than most high end aftermarket systems. Truly impressive! So ordering the premium sound system in my M40i was a must. But the system sucks. What a disappointment. Nice that it can play flac files and Videos (coded video in motion) but that sound is cheap. Like a $300 all in one surround system from a decade ago. Hollow bass, no volume. Any change would be welcome.
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      03-09-2020, 10:16 AM   #6
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I haven't been disappointed with the Harmon system thus far. Is it possible someone messed with the EQ and/or bass/treble and turned off the Logic 7 settings for those who are not getting great sound? Frequency response when set to neutral with Logic 7 on sounds pretty full and well equalized to my ears throughout the audible frequency spectrum.

OK, maybe there is a tiny bit of bass bloat somewhere between 100-500hz as compared to the rest of the audible spectrum, but that's easily ironed out, and likely a sales tactic, as research shows (research at Harmon funny enough...) people tend to prefer and purchase sound setups with a bass bump over true neutral...

The only issue I've had is having to turn the sound up a lot when the top is down, but that's a given in any convertible sound system.

As far as Focals are concerned, I'd wait until a Beryllium tweeter option is available. I don't think the lower end stuff will be worth the price of admission to switch from what Harmon has installed already...
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      03-09-2020, 02:20 PM   #7
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You're kidding, right? Play a series of sine wave test tones from 20hz to 20khz. It's all over the place.
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      03-09-2020, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M40iSFR View Post
You're kidding, right? Play a series of sine wave test tones from 20hz to 20khz. It's all over the place.
As it is in basically ANY enclosed space with reflective surfaces. That’s basic acoustics...

If you think replacing the Harmon with Focal is going to solve that issue, you’re wasting your money.
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      03-09-2020, 04:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post
As it is in basically ANY enclosed space with reflective surfaces. That’s basic acoustics...

If you think replacing the Harmon with Focal is going to solve that issue, you’re wasting your money.
Solve, no. Improve, yes. The purpose of the EQ is to aid room correction. No need to sigh.

Have you seen the construction of the HK speakers? They are junk. The amp isn't too bad.

Disconnect the centre speaker and disable Logic 7 is a start. Better drivers is a no-brainer.
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      03-09-2020, 05:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M40iSFR View Post
Solve, no. Improve, yes. The purpose of the EQ is to aid room correction. No need to sigh.

Have you seen the construction of the HK speakers? They are junk. The amp isn't too bad.

Disconnect the centre speaker and disable Logic 7 is a start. Better drivers is a no-brainer.
I have to “sigh” because listening to frequency response notes individually is not how broadband EQ works or how the brain hears music harmonically. Even some of the best audio rooms with the best speakers on the market (FR-wise) will still have those ups and downs if you listen to the response notes individually.

IMO, Logic 7 is the saving grace of this cars audio setup.

In any case, my point is that you’re not really upgrading when switching to those Focals, IMO. It seems like more of a parallel move unless you wait for the Beryllium. Then again, I’m not sure how much improvement you can expect to get in a tiny roadster cabin. I would save the audiophile expectations (and money) for a dedicated home system rather than trying to put lipstick on a pig. You may be making it worse with whatever you put in there if you can’t alter the head unit’s crossover points for the speaker arrays anyway.

Last edited by QueueCumber; 03-09-2020 at 05:45 PM..
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      03-09-2020, 05:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post
I have to “sigh” because listening to frequency response notes individually is not how broadband EQ works or how the brain hears music harmonically. Even some of the best audio rooms with the best speakers on the market (FR-wise) will still have those ups and downs if you listen to the response notes individually.

IMO, Logic 7 is the saving grace of this cars audio setup.

In any case, my point is that you’re not really upgrading when switching to those Focals, IMO. It seems like more of a parallel move unless you wait for the Beryllium. Then again, I’m not sure how much improvement you can expect to get in a tiny roadster cabin. I would save the audiophile expectations (and money) for a dedicated home system rather than trying to put lipstick on a pig. You may be making it worse with whatever you put in there if you can’t alter the head units crossover points for the speaker arrays anyway.
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      03-10-2020, 03:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post
I have to “sigh” because listening to frequency response notes individually is not how broadband EQ works or how the brain hears music harmonically. Even some of the best audio rooms with the best speakers on the market (FR-wise) will still have those ups and downs if you listen to the response notes individually.

IMO, Logic 7 is the saving grace of this cars audio setup.

In any case, my point is that you’re not really upgrading when switching to those Focals, IMO. It seems like more of a parallel move unless you wait for the Beryllium. Then again, I’m not sure how much improvement you can expect to get in a tiny roadster cabin. I would save the audiophile expectations (and money) for a dedicated home system rather than trying to put lipstick on a pig. You may be making it worse with whatever you put in there if you can’t alter the head unit’s crossover points for the speaker arrays anyway.
Converting two channel audio into multichannel by use of a computer algorithm is a saving grace? No, it’s a terrible idea that introduces so much phase distortion the music becomes unlistenable.
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      03-10-2020, 07:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColParker View Post
Converting two channel audio into multichannel by use of a computer algorithm is a saving grace? No, it’s a terrible idea that introduces so much phase distortion the music becomes unlistenable.
I'm guessing what you are referring to as "phase distortion" is just your expectation of the music sounding the same in a tiny car with surround system speakers as it does on your two channel audio system at home.

https://sound-au.com/ptd.htm (Sections on Phase Audibility and Group Delay)

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3824 (Note point 4)

https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...ibility-part-2 (Interesting and useful feedback made by Dr. Toole after the article)

For me, Logic 7 creates a more immersive sound field with depth. Does it reproduce the same sound field and signature as my two channel B&W 803 D3s at home? No. I wouldn't expect it to though.

Last edited by QueueCumber; 03-10-2020 at 08:29 AM..
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      10-22-2020, 02:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M40iSFR View Post
I'm thinking about upgrading the speakers in my car. I got the Harmon Kardon system when I bought it, but it's not great.

Focal have a few options that look decent https://www.focal-inside.com/bmw/en/...ible-2018-g29/ But I'm not sure the kit is completely correct.

According to this breakdown of the HK components:

Attachment 2251173

it should be 7 pairs of tweeter + mid range, plus two subs. The two way speaker in the kit are incorrect.

Questions

1. I'm thinking 7 x the IS BMW 100L kit would be better. But I won't need to use the crossover as that's built in the tweeter output of the HK amp. Does that sound right?

2. I don't see the advantage of buying the amplifier kit and BMW 2 subs instead of using the BMW 4 subs with the amp that came with it. The frequency range of both subs is the same. Only difference is one is 2 ohm the other 4. Does that sound right?

3. If I did buy the additional amp, how difficult would it be to wire?

Focal support haven't been any help.
Did you ever do an upgrade to your speaker system? I too am dissatisfied with the HK and took a look at the 7.2 premium option for the Focal, and there's a local dealer here who could do it for me. Just wondering if you ever did it, or anyone else, and could provide any feedback. I also just need to change my source and upload some of my FLAC collection, I like the idea of CarPlay but Spotify sounds like crap and the volume is so so so low that I have to turn it up to 75% or better when I'm driving. My DD is a 2019 RDX with the ELS Studio surround and it's way way better in every way for a stock audio system. I know we are limited in a 2 seater but still, I wish they had a B&O option for the Z4.
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      10-23-2020, 08:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delita1 View Post
Did you ever do an upgrade to your speaker system? I too am dissatisfied with the HK and took a look at the 7.2 premium option for the Focal, and there's a local dealer here who could do it for me. Just wondering if you ever did it, or anyone else, and could provide any feedback. I also just need to change my source and upload some of my FLAC collection, I like the idea of CarPlay but Spotify sounds like crap and the volume is so so so low that I have to turn it up to 75% or better when I'm driving. My DD is a 2019 RDX with the ELS Studio surround and it's way way better in every way for a stock audio system. I know we are limited in a 2 seater but still, I wish they had a B&O option for the Z4.
I will watch with interest as I am also disappointed with the HK. The Focal or Audison packages are appealing to me.
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