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      04-23-2015, 04:12 PM   #23
ChrisMT79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds
Those fools on the hill are actually debating renewal of Section 215. If any members think any absurd bill is too stupid to pass, I have a bridge to sell you.
Agreed. There will probably be set parameters in terms of an expiration after X amount of years, but I can see it happening in the near future the way the automotive/networking/technology/social media industries are advancing and becoming intertwined.
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      04-23-2015, 04:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
surprised audi isn't on that list. seems right up their alley
Volkswagen Group is on the list. I assume this would then include the companies they own: Audi, Bentley, Porsche, Lamborghini etc. Hopefully not though. I hope it does not pass.
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      04-23-2015, 06:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaSMP300 View Post
Volkswagen Group is on the list. I assume this would then include the companies they own: Audi, Bentley, Porsche, Lamborghini etc. Hopefully not though. I hope it does not pass.
I know and porsche was on that list therefore I assumed they all have their own say in the matter.
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      04-23-2015, 09:37 PM   #26
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I think if the manufactures wanted you to not be able to work on own your car they could. However, neither could most mechanics or do it at a cost efficient rate.

But it would be funny, if a someone built a car so complicated no one could fix it but them. Hey Jeffy Lube I need you to change the flux neutron capacitor in the engine bunker ?

I agree I don't see this bill passing.
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      04-26-2015, 03:58 PM   #27
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I don't know what the big deal is. It's not like the DMCA has had any significant impact on people being able to do whatever they want with their content (burn it, put it on an in-home server, wirelessly broadcast it all over the home, etc.). It also has not prevented people from jailbreaking their iPhones, rooting their Android devices, etc. etc.

Technology has let the genie out of the bottle. No way to put it back in. People will continue to mod/hack their cars just as they do their home computers, cell phones, home media servers, etc. regardless of what the law says.
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      04-27-2015, 12:58 AM   #28
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The problem is the bad tuners/modifiers out there.
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      04-27-2015, 03:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
The problem is the bad tuners/modifiers out there.
The problem is customers going to bad tuners out there.
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      05-01-2015, 02:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
I don't know what the big deal is. It's not like the DMCA has had any significant impact on people being able to do whatever they want with their content (burn it, put it on an in-home server, wirelessly broadcast it all over the home, etc.). It also has not prevented people from jailbreaking their iPhones, rooting their Android devices, etc. etc.

Technology has let the genie out of the bottle. No way to put it back in. People will continue to mod/hack their cars just as they do their home computers, cell phones, home media servers, etc. regardless of what the law says.
Umm...negatory.

The DMCA has had a profound effect on people. Many of the lawsuits and threats launched by the RIAA and MPAA have been due to the rights granted to them via the DMCA. Just because you're able to do what ever does not make it legal. If you happen to be caught up in a drag net, you'll understand how bad the DMCA can make your life.

The interesting thing about what the DMCA has done is to enforce a licensing model which the computer software industry has used as the foundation of their business operations. They own the software. Even though you "bought" the software, you don't own it. You only bought the rights to use it for a specific purpose.

And for those that don't think this will pass, many apathetic citizens thought the DMCA would never pass. Well look at what is law now. Most ill informed people argue fair use supercedes the restrictions imposed by the DMCA. Wrong again. Fair use was only a court interpretation from a lawsuit (Sony vs Universal Studios). Fair use has never been codified into law. Attempts by some legislators to create an official fair use law fell dead even before it was able to brought up for a vote. Again, this was due to lack of interest from us consumers. If fair use was indeed a law, we could have leveraged this as a way to combat the DMCA and what the automakers are proposing to do with access to their engine management software.
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      05-01-2015, 02:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
surprised audi isn't on that list. seems right up their alley
they are. they are owned by Volkswagen.

so are they talking about the entertainment system computer or the engine control computer? or everything altogether.
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      05-02-2015, 02:28 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Umm...negatory.

The DMCA has had a profound effect on people. Many of the lawsuits and threats launched by the RIAA and MPAA have been due to the rights granted to them via the DMCA. Just because you're able to do what ever does not make it legal. If you happen to be caught up in a drag net, you'll understand how bad the DMCA can make your life.

The interesting thing about what the DMCA has done is to enforce a licensing model which the computer software industry has used as the foundation of their business operations. They own the software. Even though you "bought" the software, you don't own it. You only bought the rights to use it for a specific purpose.

And for those that don't think this will pass, many apathetic citizens thought the DMCA would never pass. Well look at what is law now. Most ill informed people argue fair use supercedes the restrictions imposed by the DMCA. Wrong again. Fair use was only a court interpretation from a lawsuit (Sony vs Universal Studios). Fair use has never been codified into law. Attempts by some legislators to create an official fair use law fell dead even before it was able to brought up for a vote. Again, this was due to lack of interest from us consumers. If fair use was indeed a law, we could have leveraged this as a way to combat the DMCA and what the automakers are proposing to do with access to their engine management software.
I don't see how anything you've said pertains to my point. I was speaking about content you've legally purchased. Music labels and music studios don't sue people who rip their own DVDs and CDs and place them on their iPods, iPhones and home media servers. However, they DO go after you if you sell or share the content... but I wasn't talking about that. All this stuff about whether fair use is case law or legislated law doesn't matter if it's not being enforced against people who are only ripping and storing the content on their own personal devices.
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      05-02-2015, 08:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
I don't see how anything you've said pertains to my point. I was speaking about content you've legally purchased. Music labels and music studios don't sue people who rip their own DVDs and CDs and place them on their iPods, iPhones and home media servers. However, they DO go after you if you sell or share the content... but I wasn't talking about that. All this stuff about whether fair use is case law or legislated law doesn't matter if it's not being enforced against people who are only ripping and storing the content on their own personal devices.
Because the mechanisms are not in place, yet, for those that operate under the DMCA to enforce their rights under this act. Be assured, it will probably happen if no one raises a stink about it.

In fact it has already happened. I'm an audiophile and have been involved in many high end playback devices. When DAT (digital audio tapes) were released on the market, the RIAA had a total fit. So they moved to block importing of DAT devices unless there was something that protected them against POTENTIAL pirating. SCMS (serial copy management system) was created and enforced on all DAT devices and later showed up in Mini Disc and Digital Compact Cassette. What made this a raw deal for an originator of content. Musicians for example used DAT to record their sessions yet SCMS was forced onto their content even though the RIAA had nothing to do with it. As an additional side bar, the RIAA was also able to get a royalty tax levied on blank DAT tapes to provide monetary compensation for possible pirating.

Also many music companies have embedded additional information into the digital audio called watermarking and per your example Apple has their own DRM mechanism to enforce control over audio content you purchased from them.

So how does this all relate to cars? Have you looked into the new OBD 3 proposal? If you haven't, look at this:

http://lobby.la.psu.edu/_107th/093_O..._questions.htm

I bring your attention to these sections:

"WHAT IS OBD-III?

A program to minimize the delay between detection of an emissions malfunction by the OBD-II system and repair of the vehicle

Two basic elements:

Read stored OBD-II information from in-use vehicles.
Direct owners of vehicles with fault codes to make immediate repairs
OBD-III TECHNOLOGIES

Three ways to send/receive data:

Roadside reader
Local station network
Satellite"

Now add in DMCA into the mix and I ask you to rethink why the current action by the automakers coupled with the above push for OBD 3 isn't something you would be concerned about.

Last edited by zx10guy; 05-02-2015 at 08:25 AM..
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      05-02-2015, 09:20 AM   #34
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Please stop with the nonsense. There's no law one way or the other yet, and some media is expressly permitted to be used in copying. Hence, we have historical precedence for it being not only allowed, but legal. Now, if automakers want to build in some sort of "protection" to prevent owners from accessing their cars software, then they are also expressly permitted under law to do so. However, the law does not say whether it is, or is not, permissable to circumnavigate said preventative protections.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RIAA, The Law
Internet Copying

It’s okay to download music from sites authorized by the owners of the copyrighted music, whether or not such sites charge a fee.
Visit our list of Legal Music Sites or Music United for a list of a number legal and safe sites where permission is granted and content is available for downloading.
It’s never okay to download unauthorized music from pirate sites (web or FTP) or peer-to-peer systems. Examples of peer-to-peer systems making unauthorized music available for download include: Ares, BitTorrent, Gnutella, Limewire, and Morpheus.
It’s never okay to make unauthorized copies of music available to others (that is, uploading music) on peer-to-peer systems.

Copying CDs

It’s okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes.
Beyond that, there’s no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:
The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
The copy is just for your personal use.
Source: http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.p...online_the_law
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      05-02-2015, 11:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Please stop with the nonsense. There's no law one way or the other yet, and some media is expressly permitted to be used in copying. Hence, we have historical precedence for it being not only allowed, but legal. Now, if automakers want to build in some sort of "protection" to prevent owners from accessing their cars software, then they are also expressly permitted under law to do so. However, the law does not say whether it is, or is not, permissable to circumnavigate said preventative protections.




Source: http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.p...online_the_law
Yet, it didn't prevent the RIAA from filing this back in 2006:

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/r...talitz_AAP.pdf

Which they move to argue that space shifting and format shifting do not count as non-infringing uses.

And this nugget from their filing on page 22:

"Similarly, creating a back-up copy of a music CD is not a non-infringing use, for reasons similar to those the Register canvassed in detail in her 2003 determination that back-up copying of DVDs cannot be treated as noninfringing."

So while you're right there has been historical precedence in covering fair use starting with the Sony vs Universal Studios case, I go back to what you've said; there's been no law stating one way or the other concerning personal fair use. Because there is no law codifying fair use, you have these potential games being played as demonstrated above with an actual codified law, DMCA.
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      05-03-2015, 05:10 PM   #36
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Better ban the 2nd amendment first.
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      05-03-2015, 07:26 PM   #37
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Something interesting I read, Tesla is not in support of this. So maybe they are doing this to put Tesla out of business?
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      05-04-2015, 08:09 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neliconcept
Something interesting I read, Tesla is not in support of this. So maybe they are doing this to put Tesla out of business?
Well Musk is certainly one of the most respected/forward thinkers of our lifetime. It would be difficult to evolve and progress if one can not modify/improve what we already have. We would have some slow transportation if someone hadn't challenged the square wheel patent...
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