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      06-15-2018, 09:01 PM   #947
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Sales hit in what universe?

The Tesla feels cheap. All of it. Having a lot of tech doesn’t make it upscale. I watch sales aren’t impacting Omega and Rolex, sorry.
Haha, it's far from Rolex, unless we are talking rolls royce

https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model...cou-1823163274

Model 3 is now making the same impact perhaps
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      06-15-2018, 09:17 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Haha, it's far from Rolex, unless we are talking rolls royce

https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model...cou-1823163274

Model 3 is now making the same impact perhaps
So their sales stayed about the same according to your graphs.... outside of the shit 3 series so congrats i guess.
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      06-15-2018, 09:38 PM   #949
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Careful with the "performance" word and Tesla Gruss. Yes certain models can be fast in a straight line for a couple of runs but that's it.

Aren't they pigs on a track and a big letdown with shitty batteries and limp-mode?

Tesla's aren't performance cars. They are moving appliances with tech that dazzles the uniformed non enthusiast car buyer.
Have you driven a Tesla, or is this just what you have heard? By the way, being a track car isn't the end all be all for a vehicle.

Was driving a friends' ModelX the other day, and I was FLOORED at how much acceleration it has.
Isn't it supposed to drive me? Or rather crash into something with me in the "car"
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      06-15-2018, 10:08 PM   #950
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Haha, it's far from Rolex, unless we are talking rolls royce

https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model...cou-1823163274

Model 3 is now making the same impact perhaps
[IMG]http://media5.starkinsider.com/wordp...498.jpg?x28372[/IMG]
So their sales stayed about the same according to your graphs.... outside of the shit 3 series so congrats i guess.
Look at the graph genius.
3-er was top selling in November and no 4 now
It went from 36% of market share to below 20
Who's the shit 3 here?

P.S. have you seen base 3-er
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      06-15-2018, 11:10 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
Look at the graph genius.
3-er was top selling in November and no 4 now
It went from 36% of market share to below 20
Who's the shit 3 here?

P.S. have you seen base 3-er
I'm talking about the shit bmw 3 series Einstein. Go wack off to your microwave
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      06-16-2018, 06:53 AM   #952
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Tesla layoffs another sign of impending doom

This is from the National Post Canada
http://driving.ca/cadillac/auto-news...impending-doom


David Booth by DAVID BOOTH | 2 DAYS AGO

Elon Musk's admission that 'profit is not what motivates us' is worrying for investors and future of company

So, the bad news surrounding Tesla just keeps getting worse, Elon Musk this week announcing that it would be dismissing 9 per cent of its workforce. Considering that said workforce now accounts for 46,000 people, that makes the 4,100 now ex-employees the biggest widespread layoff in the Silicon Valley corporation’s history. The EV lobby cried, TSLA’s stock swooned and then the inevitable parsing of the exact wording of Mr. Musk’s official email began.

One pundit — Bill Murphy Jr. of Inc.com — presumably a Tesla fan grasped onto the fact that Musk not once but twice lamented the loss of 4,100 “hard-working” employees, proof that he was no “unfeeling Tony Stark” and that having to let go of so many soon-to-be-ex-employees must be “tearing him up.” Murphy also pointed optimistically to Musk’s emphasis that that “we are making this hard decision now so that we never have to do this again.” Still others honed onto Musk’s assertion that the jobs being deleted were the result of expanding too quickly in recent years resulting “in some duplication of roles and some job functions,” which, the CEO contended, means that there would be no slowdown in production. Oh, some planned expansion into Home Depot with solar panels would have to be shelved, but the promised ramp-up of the Model 3 would go on.

What no one seems to have reported on is Musk’s admission that “Tesla has never made an annual profit in the almost 15 years since we have existed.” Now, to those of us so often accused of trying to sabotage Mr. Musk’s good works, this is no great surprise. But for many Tesla fanatics, this may be something of a shock, a disturbing plurality of owners long claiming that the mainstream media was lying about the company’s long history of red ink (one wag even contending that the American Securities and Exchange Commission (the SEC) was falsifying its reports on Tesla’s losses).

What should, however, rattle investors even more is the second part of that sentence in which Musk admits “profit is obviously not what motivates us.” Now, to the fanboys who idolize the ex-PayPal-er, “what drives us is our mission to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable, clean energy” might seem like the kind of idealism that should trump fiscal pragmatism, but for the investors that have funded Tesla lo these last 15 years, such disregard for their investments must seem just a tad cavalier.

Even Mr. Musk seems to have realized he can no longer trifle with other people’s money, finally admitting that Tesla’s unprofitability “is a valid and fair criticism of Tesla’s history to date.” Furthermore, he goes on to state that “we will never achieve that mission [again, the world’s transition to sustainable, clean energy] unless we eventually demonstrate that we can be sustainably profitable.”

Now as laudable as that may seem, I think I can speak for most TSLA investors when I wonder why he didn’t come to this realization before burning through an estimated US$11 billion of their money. Indeed, the big question regarding the announcement of these layoffs and the admission for the need to profitability is why now, why, indeed, this minute for Mr. Musk’s seeming come-to-Jesus, er, Milton Friedman, fiscal epiphany?

Well, it seems there’s a bit of an investor revolt going on, Wall Street railing at the estimated US$1.1 billion — $7,430 every minute, Bloomberg calculates — that Tesla burned through in just the first three months of this year. Goldman Sachs, meanwhile, estimates that the company will have to raise a further $10 billion over the next 18 months to meet various production goals and develop all the products — the Roadster, the much-ballyhooed truck and now the fully-autonomous Model Y — Mr. Musk, again so cavalierly, promises every time his company gets some bad press (i.e. another Autopiloted Model S crashes into something or someone).

Still others worry about the chaos in Tesla C-suite, senior managers in automation, production and accounting either being demoted or fired in recent months. Worse yet, it appears that at least in some cases, it is Mr. Musk that has personally taken personal control of their department. Megalomania seldom a replacement for good management, Mr. Musk’s contention that only he can solve Tesla’s production problems is not sitting well with investors. Nor are reports that as many as 40 per cent of some parts — batteries and drive units — are defective helping matters, the Silicon Valley Business Journal estimating that all that scrap metal has cost Tesla some US$150 million so far this year. Nor will Bloomberg’s estimate that both Ford and General Motors “bring in about 2.5 times as much revenue per employee” likely charm investors either. Factor in Second Measure’s data that 23 per cent of Model 3 prospects have asked for a refund of their $1,000 deposit and no wonder that last week’s annual shareholder’s meeting included a motion — defeated — to have Elon Musk removed as chairman of Tesla’s board and to jettison three of his favoured board members (including, nepotism seemingly also part of Mr. Musk’s mission to save the world, his brother Kimbal).

So, it would appear that Mr. Musk’s assertion that Model 3 production will finally meet the long promised goal of 5,000 units per week and that Tesla will be profitable in the last half of 2018 has taken on a new urgency. Money may not seem nearly as meritorious a mission as saving the planet, but without it Mr. Musk may be out of a job this time next year.
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      06-16-2018, 10:27 AM   #953
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I think there is more FUD stuff if you dig even further, like few months back, since you seem to like older news
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      06-16-2018, 01:22 PM   #954
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
It doesn’t compete with a S class. It should be competition for something a lot lower in quality for sure.
Despite what you think of the quality of the interior, it does compete with the S class simply because they share the same customer base.
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      06-16-2018, 03:20 PM   #955
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Despite what you think of the quality of the interior, it does compete with the S class simply because they share the same customer base.
He says it competes with them, but it’s largely had no impact. Same with the model 3.

The model 3is the pinnacle of Tesla’s trash. It’s crazy that while every other car in the segment has remained the same, you attribute the sales decline of the 3er to the model 3.

This is why the Tesla brand is so polarizing - subpar cars with uninformed and fanatic fans is off putting to be majority of consumers.

Wake me up when GM buys them.
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      06-16-2018, 03:28 PM   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
He says it competes with them, but it’s largely had no impact. Same with the model 3.

The model 3is the pinnacle of Tesla’s trash. It’s crazy that while every other car in the segment has remained the same, you attribute the sales decline of the 3er to the model 3.

This is why the Tesla brand is so polarizing - subpar cars with uninformed and fanatic fans is off putting to be majority of consumers.

Wake me up when GM buys them.
They are basically apple.

Fan boys that will fight tooth and nail to defend the brand.
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      06-16-2018, 05:33 PM   #957
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
He says it competes with them, but it's largely had no impact. Same with the model 3.

The model 3is the pinnacle of Tesla's trash. It's crazy that while every other car in the segment has remained the same, you attribute the sales decline of the 3er to the model 3.

This is why the Tesla brand is so polarizing - subpar cars with uninformed and fanatic fans is off putting to be majority of consumers.

Wake me up when GM buys them.
They are basically apple.

Fan boys that will fight tooth and nail to defend the brand.
The difference is Apple will survive and Tesla will not

Apple also has IOS which is hands down better then the other operating systems out there.
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      06-16-2018, 06:05 PM   #958
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
They are basically apple.

Fan boys that will fight tooth and nail to defend the brand.
The fanboy argument is mostly only made by other fanboys who happen to be on the other side. Fanatical claims that something "sucks" without backing it up with facts and real world observations is just as bad as fanboying. These arguments usually result in personal attacks... and judging by your previous post, you fit the bill.

It's fine to criticize a car... if you've driven them. Half the people who claim that Tesla cars are trash haven't driven them and go off youtube reviews or they mistake simplicity with cheapness. I get it, you don't like it, then don't buy it.
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      06-16-2018, 06:10 PM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The fanboy argument is mostly only made by other fanboys who happen to be on the other side. Fanatical claims that something "sucks" without backing it up with facts and real world observations is just as bad as fanboying. These arguments usually result in personal attacks... and judging by your previous post, you fit the bill.

It's fine to criticize a car... if you've driven them. Half the people who claim that Tesla cars are trash haven't driven them and go off youtube reviews or they mistake simplicity with cheapness. I get it, you don't like it, then don't buy it.
I’d imagine there is a lot of overlap between Apple buyers, Audi drivers and Tesla drivers- in a bad way. (Speaking of someone who owns an apple phone, hates Audi and thinks Tesla is overrated)
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      06-16-2018, 06:13 PM   #960
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
I'd imagine there is a lot of overlap between Apple buyers, Audi drivers and Tesla drivers- in a bad way. (Speaking of someone who owns an apple phone, hates Audi and thinks Tesla is overrated)
In overly simplistic terms, I guess you could say Tesla is like Apple because a lot of the customers buy both. If that were the case, I guess Chiquita Banana is like Tesla too because Tesla owners buy Chiquita Bananas?
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Last edited by jmg; 06-16-2018 at 06:33 PM..
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      06-17-2018, 09:38 AM   #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The fanboy argument is mostly only made by other fanboys who happen to be on the other side. Fanatical claims that something "sucks" without backing it up with facts and real world observations is just as bad as fanboying. These arguments usually result in personal attacks... and judging by your previous post, you fit the bill.

It's fine to criticize a car... if you've driven them. Half the people who claim that Tesla cars are trash haven't driven them and go off youtube reviews or they mistake simplicity with cheapness. I get it, you don't like it, then don't buy it.
The thing is, quite a few of the ones saying tesla isnt a great car, have driven them. I've driven them a few times now ranging from driving a few minutes to a store, to a few hours on a road trip with a buddy.
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      06-17-2018, 09:46 AM   #962
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The thing is, quite a few of the ones saying tesla isnt a great car, have driven them. I've driven them a few times now ranging from driving a few minutes to a store, to a few hours on a road trip with a buddy.
Even if you have driven a Tesla, why are Tesla owners uninformed?
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      06-17-2018, 11:55 AM   #963
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Even if you have driven a Tesla, why are Tesla owners uninformed?
Outside of the electric power train, the car is poorly thought out. The interior looks cheap, with the ugly smudgy IPad for a dash in the middle (doesn’t that eat battery life?) cheap looking steering wheel, horrible ergonomics and high price tag (I understand why - but still)

The model 3 is all of this but worse, because it looks cheap on the exterior as well as the interior. The Bolt isn’t as sexy as a Model S - but it’s a better package and feels like a real car.
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      06-17-2018, 12:55 PM   #964
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Outside of the electric power train, the car is poorly thought out.
How so? The keyless features are well implemented, the interface is intuitive and the screen is large.

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The interior looks cheap, with the ugly smudgy IPad for a dash in the middle (doesn’t that eat battery life?)
You're mistaking simplicity for cheapness. Aesthetically I agree, it's too "plain" for me. But some people might enjoy the simplicity.

And do you really think a touch screen is going to scrub significant miles off the range?

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cheap looking steering wheel, horrible ergonomics and high price tag (I understand why - but still)
That is subjective. The design aesthetic is simplicity. For what it's worth the multi-functionality of the two steering wheel controls is innovative in that it solves the ever growing need for more buttons. Whether or not everyone likes it and it will be adapted across the car industry time will tell, but at least Tesla is trying something new which is more than most car companies are willing to do for fear of alienating their customers.

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The model 3 is all of this but worse, because it looks cheap on the exterior as well as the interior. The Bolt isn’t as sexy as a Model S - but it’s a better package and feels like a real car.
Again, that's subjective. I find the Bolt to be pedestrian. There is a grace to the simplicity and clean sheetmetal of the Tesla line. I don't expect everyone to like it, that's the nature of subjectivity. I don't want or expect you to like it, but I respect that it's your opinion. What I disagree with is the association of simplicity for cheapness, or that Tesla owners are "uninformed" for their decision for purchasing the car.
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      06-17-2018, 01:11 PM   #965
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Lots of haters out there have lost a lot of money. Haters in here only like to talk smack.

"In just two weeks the shorts have “lost” over $2.8 billion"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#618059211412
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      06-17-2018, 01:25 PM   #966
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Lots of haters out there have lost a lot of money. Haters in here only like to talk smack.

"In just two weeks the shorts have “lost” over $2.8 billion"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#618059211412
I've mentioned how I underestimated Musk before. This train was too wild for me and I got off while I was ahead, but I wished I would have stayed on board.
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      06-17-2018, 01:36 PM   #967
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I've mentioned how I underestimated Musk before. This train was too wild for me and I got off while I was ahead, but I wished I would have stayed on board.
Me too, I bought at $26. Currently hold 0.
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      06-17-2018, 01:49 PM   #968
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How so? The keyless features are well implemented, the interface is intuitive and the screen is large.
The screen looks smudgy after about 3 minutes of using it, and because everything is buried in menus, requires the drive to take their eyes off the road for simple functions (this is especially true for the Model 3). It screams cheap.

Quote:
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You're mistaking simplicity for cheapness. Aesthetically I agree, it's too "plain" for me. But some people might enjoy the simplicity.
No, it's cheap. The Model 3 doesn't have a real gauge pod, and again requires the driver to take his eyes off the road to look at the Ipad for pertinent info.

Since when is it the driver's job to adapt to the car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
And do you really think a touch screen is going to scrub significant miles off the range?
Leave your iPhone's screen on all day and tell me how well the battery holds up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Again, that is subjective. The design aesthetic is simplicity. For what it's worth the multi-functionality of the two steering wheel controls is innovative in that it solves the ever growing need for more buttons. Whether or not everyone likes it and it will be adapted across the car industry time will tell, but at least Tesla is trying something new which is more than most car companies are willing to do for fear of alienating their customers.
This is the second time you quote "simplicity" as if simple equates to better thought out. It's clearly not. Door handles, the lack of buttons and simple switches and controls to open things like the glove box and hood aren't "simple" or innovative.

The cars look, feel and function cheaply because Tesla relies on buyers to be the actual beta testers for their cars.
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