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      08-07-2018, 12:26 PM   #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
, They are built on corporate welfare based upon BS climate change alarmism.
As in, climate change is fake news?
I took it he meant to say man made climate change was some Al Gore Bullshit
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      08-07-2018, 12:35 PM   #992
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Thatís not what I said. I chose my words very deliberately and I have well informed opinions on the subject. But itís not the subject of this thread and I donít want to jack it.
Going back to the Tesla, a friend decided to drive from Seattle to Denver in a recently purchased model x 100d instead of a modded 700hp e63 wagon.

Apparently it was painless and he didn't regret the vehicle choice.

He had to stop anyway for food, coffee and bathroom stops for his kids, and he used the tesla dc fast chargers and it didn't take longer than if he was in the gas car (the humans were the rate limiting factor, not the recharging).

The model x was quick enough, and the 300 or so hp deficit was not noticed, and the autopilot worked well.

I was honestly pretty surprised because I expected him to come back saying that he wished he took the e63

if tesla doesn't work for you, at least try the ipace or upcoming porsche EV.
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      08-07-2018, 05:49 PM   #993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I took it he meant to say man made climate change was some Al Gore Bullshit
Well, thereís no question that Al Gore is full of crap and is a crony of the highest order (not unlike Musk), but I didnít say that either. I was merely referring to the fact that Tesla was built with corporate welfare that is the product of politically driven alarmism about global warming, untethered to any rational and thoughtful regulatory policy. Iím against corporate welfare in all of its forms, but global warming alarmism seems to drive some of the most egregious examples, not to mention lots of other very bad policies. Donít even get me started on ethanol.

Itís unfortunate that global warming has become such a third railóalso a product of a constant drone of politicized hype. Itís like trying to talk about abortion.
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      08-07-2018, 06:19 PM   #994
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Wtf is going on with Musk, his tweets, and the stock price today? Good grief!
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      08-07-2018, 07:25 PM   #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
I was merely referring to the fact that Tesla was built with corporate welfare that is the product of politically driven alarmism about global warming, untethered to any rational and thoughtful regulatory policy. I
Are you referring to tax credits for people who purchase EV or something else?

tax credits to build factories in certain areas, California CARB credits to create incentives to lower air pollution are the other subsidies I'm aware of

I'm genuinely curious because I've had these convos before (since I drive a Chevy EV) with others who are super into gas cars and have heard similar comments.

I don't have a Tesla and am not a shareholder, so I don't have any reason to defend the brand.
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      08-07-2018, 07:39 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Are you referring to tax credits for people who purchase EV or something else?

tax credits to build factories in certain areas, California CARB credits to create incentives to lower air pollution are the other subsidies I'm aware of

I'm genuinely curious because I've had these convos before (since I drive a Chevy EV) with others who are super into gas cars and have heard similar comments.

I don't have a Tesla and am not a shareholder, so I don't have any reason to defend the brand.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...531-story.html
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      08-07-2018, 07:49 PM   #997
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Wtf is going on with Musk, his tweets, and the stock price today? Good grief!
Maybe he just wanted to strengthen his ownership position with some cheaper shares.
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      08-07-2018, 08:15 PM   #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I took it he meant to say man made climate change was some Al Gore Bullshit
Well, there's no question that Al Gore is full of crap and is a crony of the highest order (not unlike Musk), but I didn't say that either. I was merely referring to the fact that Tesla was built with corporate welfare that is the product of politically driven alarmism about global warming, untethered to any rational and thoughtful regulatory policy. I'm against corporate welfare in all of its forms, but global warming alarmism seems to drive some of the most egregious examples, not to mention lots of other very bad policies. Don't even get me started on ethanol.

It's unfortunate that global warming has become such a third rail‚ÄĒalso a product of a constant drone of politicized hype. It's like trying to talk about abortion.
So are you against all car manufacturers that make petrol cars? Because don't oil companies and companies that burn fossil fuels get the biggest subsidies of any other industry by a shockingly high number? To the point that it dwarfs EV, solar, and wind subsidies. I believe so (of course depending how define subsidy).

My point is that it seems your hatred is arbitrary. Are you truly a equal opportunity hater like you claim (if so then, respect)? If not, just admit that you hate Musk and EVs because they ruin what you love (cars that make sound) and not blame it on global warming or subsidies.

I'm not defending the other side, or am a tree hugger by any means, but just pointing out that to me, your position seems a bit more arbitrary than not. Which is fine.

P.S. we are still soul brothers even if we disagree because M3>M4
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      08-07-2018, 08:15 PM   #999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
Thanks for the link.

There's all sort of stuff that's super wasteful (e.g. medicare fraud is apparently ~$60B/yr) and I thought I read somewhere there's ~$4B/yr of subsidies going to oil and gas industry as well



I wish the gov would be smarter about all of those things in general.

Tesla certainty has a big target on their back right now from many fronts.

I have a feeling that I will not care about any of that when I get into the right pedal in a >400hp Model 3, since I'm already having a good time in a 140hp EV
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      08-07-2018, 08:20 PM   #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
Thanks for the link.

There's all sort of stuff that's super wasteful (e.g. medicare fraud is apparently ~$60B/yr) and I thought I read somewhere there's ~$4B/yr of subsidies going to oil and gas industry as well



I wish the gov would be smarter about all of those things in general.

Tesla certainty has a big target on their back right now from many fronts.
Fossil fuels subsidies in the US have been estimated to be as high $50 billion.

While there legit subsidies that are only around $5 billion, subsidies or "corporate welfare" can be measured in other ways. Such as payments for forced non-production as an example.

It's hard to find hard numbers of this stuff because it all depends how you define "subsidies".
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      08-07-2018, 08:59 PM   #1001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
So are you against all car manufacturers that make petrol cars? Because don't oil companies and companies that burn fossil fuels get the biggest subsidies of any other industry by a shockingly high number? To the point that it dwarfs EV, solar, and wind subsidies. I believe so (of course depending how define subsidy).

My point is that it seems your hatred is arbitrary. Are you truly a equal opportunity hater like you claim (if so then, respect)? If not, just admit that you hate Musk and EVs because they ruin what you love (cars that make sound) and not blame it on global warming or subsidies.

I'm not defending the other side, or am a tree hugger by any means, but just pointing out that to me, your position seems a bit more arbitrary than not. Which is fine.

P.S. we are still soul brothers even if we disagree because M3>M4
Iím an equal opportunity hater. Government subsidies of businesses, regulatory capture, and government misallocation of resources is definitely a pet peeve. Iím as against corporate welfare for the petrol automakers as well.

But my particular distaste for Tesla and global warming hysteria is not arbitrary. IMO, global warming is a politicianís dream. The opportunities it provides for politicians to gain money and power is almost limitless. There is literally no aspect of human behavior that cannot be regulated using global warming as justification. I am a libertarian at heart, and my biggest concern about the trajectory of our government at all levels (federal, state and local) is the erosion of liberty. This problem, combined with the fact that global warming policy and regulation is almost entirely untethered to any rational risk-benefit analysis, and global warming science has become highly politicized by tons of government money (the politicians love to fund it), seems like a recipe for disaster. Media coverage is so politicized and one-sided that it is becoming difficult to even have a rational conversation with someone about global warming. You are almost immediately confronted with ad hominem attacks (DENIER!) if you even dare to question whether the tax and regulatory burden makes sense.

So yeah, I tend to rail against it. And I wonít be giving any of my money to Tesla (at least no more than the government has already given them against my will).
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      08-09-2018, 04:31 PM   #1002
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So...SEC now looking into Elon Musk's statements about taking Telsa private.
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      08-09-2018, 06:40 PM   #1003
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So...SEC now looking into Elon Musk's statements about taking Telsa private.
As they should...but they won't find anything material, as is usually the case. The SEC looks into far more than most people realize on a day-to-day basis. More often than not, they don't find anything worth taking action on.

By the way, it's more than likely the deal will go through at a price greater than $420. I just bought a shit ton more today.
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      08-10-2018, 11:05 AM   #1004
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      08-15-2018, 09:00 PM   #1005
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Interesting...
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...nto-vehicles-8
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      08-17-2018, 09:19 AM   #1006
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The carnage, fascinating to watch.
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      08-17-2018, 10:39 AM   #1007
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As they should...but they won't find anything material, as is usually the case. The SEC looks into far more than most people realize on a day-to-day basis. More often than not, they don't find anything worth taking action on.

By the way, it's more than likely the deal will go through at a price greater than $420. I just bought a shit ton more today.
Should have waited till today to buy them
Would have saved you $43 a share
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      08-17-2018, 12:15 PM   #1008
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Should have waited till today to buy them
Would have saved you $43 a share
Yep. Oh well.
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      08-17-2018, 02:08 PM   #1009
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Yep. Oh well.
FC4 so ballin', stock could go to $25 he ain't sweatin' it!
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      08-21-2018, 11:31 AM   #1010
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https://electrek.co/2018/08/21/tesla...deal-investor/
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      08-24-2018, 08:24 AM   #1011
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By the way, it's more than likely the deal will go through at a price greater than $420.
What metrics are you using to quantify their valuation and potential buy-out price?
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      08-24-2018, 10:04 AM   #1012
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What metrics are you using to quantify their valuation and potential buy-out price?
Elon's tweets.
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