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      05-28-2021, 08:31 AM   #23
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That's what I wrote in BMW M Community

https://community.bmw-m.com/en/group...&userId=951851
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      05-28-2021, 10:01 AM   #24
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One of the things I find fascinating is how people compare the Z4 to the Supra as if they are the same other than the HP, manual vs. auto and handling, etc. I suppose it’s a valid academic exercise, but do folks actually find both equally visually appealing? Not to mention the minor point that only one is a convertible.
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      05-28-2021, 11:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwajtrader View Post
One of the things I find fascinating is how people compare the Z4 to the Supra as if they are the same other than the HP, manual vs. auto and handling, etc. I suppose it’s a valid academic exercise, but do folks actually find both equally visually appealing? Not to mention the minor point that only one is a convertible.
One is a coupe with an unattractive body the other a convertible. Under the skin its the same car.
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      05-28-2021, 12:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwajtrader View Post
One of the things I find fascinating is how people compare the Z4 to the Supra as if they are the same other than the HP, manual vs. auto and handling, etc. I suppose it’s a valid academic exercise, but do folks actually find both equally visually appealing? Not to mention the minor point that only one is a convertible.
Is the Supra visually appealing? No. But if you pop the hood and look at the badging and the parts, they're all branded with BMW. Z4 G29 and the Supra was a collaborative effort.
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      05-28-2021, 01:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
Is the Supra visually appealing? No. But if you pop the hood and look at the badging and the parts, they're all branded with BMW. Z4 G29 and the Supra was a collaborative effort.
I completely agree and understand that, but I’m saying if you were in the market for a car, I would think you would visually prefer one significantly more than the other just because they are fundamentally different In appearance and the relative performance specs wouldn’t be the overriding factor in the decision. But as my wife often tells me, I’m not always right...
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      05-28-2021, 01:59 PM   #28
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Supra top does not go down and neither do the windows unless you want the drumming noise to make you deaf.
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      05-28-2021, 02:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by badfitter View Post
Supra top does not go down and neither do the windows unless you want the drumming noise to make you deaf.
WHAT???? Can't hear ya over the drumming noise.
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      05-28-2021, 04:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwajtrader View Post
I completely agree and understand that, but I’m saying if you were in the market for a car, I would think you would visually prefer one significantly more than the other just because they are fundamentally different In appearance and the relative performance specs wouldn’t be the overriding factor in the decision. But as my wife often tells me, I’m not always right...
This was literally me just a month ago. I was actually considering the Supra because of the performance and lower price point. TBH... being able to choose a convertible, better looking car, and a BMW over a Toyota won me over. Nevermind that I've wanted a Z4 since 2003. Just sayin.
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      05-28-2021, 08:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
This was literally me just a month ago. I was actually considering the Supra because of the performance and lower price point. TBH... being able to choose a convertible, better looking car, and a BMW over a Toyota won me over. Nevermind that I've wanted a Z4 since 2003. Just sayin.
And soon you'll get one.
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      05-30-2021, 04:32 PM   #32
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Not this discussion again! Not an "S" engine, not a real ///M. All others, just good ///Marketing to squeeze more money out of us for how any BMW should be spec'd in my opinion. That said, I am happy with my "fake" ///M.

I for one have owned "real" ///M cars and can tell you while these ///M performance vehicles are very good, a "real" ///M car is just better in refined performance and balanced driving dynamics/suspension, etc. Go drive one, you'll see.

Since the G29 will never have a "real" ///M version, we'll have to be happy with the "fake" ///M40!
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      05-30-2021, 06:12 PM   #33
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I personally think that "M" has slowly become more and more diluted, I mean pretty much every car comes with an M Sport trim package with M badges.

The modern day high end BMW cars are the CS cars (competition sport).

Also agree with another poster previous - the Z4 is a true, to the core, SPORTS CAR, everything about its design screams sports, fun and speed. 2 seater roadster with amazing handling, lightweight for fast acceleration, low to the ground. The G29 especially was built so well, really proud to be an owner
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      06-01-2021, 02:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ007 View Post
Thanks for the explanation. The chart makes more sense now. Basically, both my M235 F23 and incoming G29 M40i are in the same category.
Pretty sure introduction of "M Performance" models began with the F22/F23.
Indeed the F22 M135i 3L N55 with Manual 6MT or ZF 8AT was the first M Performance.

Interesting to see peoples thoughts here. For my £0.02 I have owned:-

F22 M235i MPerformance (also an F87 M2)
F15 X5 M50D MPerformance

G01 X3 M40D MPerformance
F40 M135i MPerformance

Plus F80 M3 and F82 M4 for comparison.

For me the M series chassis and experience is a notable notch up in performance orientation. For the record I dont really like BMW classing the M Perforamce cars as M in the configurator too.

My preference of the MPerformance and the Ms is the ..... MPerformace series. For my use case a much better balance in the car.
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      06-01-2021, 08:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Designer003 View Post
One of the biggest difference between M Power cars and M performance cars is the engine.

S58 is the new M engine with 2 turbo charger, one turbo per 3 cylinders. Where as B58 has only one turbo with twin scrolls. There are a lot of other differences as well but simply put M power engine like S58 produce much more power and torque than Non M engines like B58 which is in G29 M40i.

However, B58 or B48 focuses more on the balance between power and efficiency. Caring about fuel economy and reduced emissions, while providing a smooth acceleration of straight 6 and enough power for an exciting driving experience. (also BMW can pay less environment and emission related tax.)

Realistically, if you put S58 engine(M3,M4,X3M, X4M) into G29, it will get terrible wheel spins since G29 is so light. Supra is the same and thats why lots of Supra tuners don't post 0 to 60 numbers... there is a traction problem and it is not a safe daily car.

Thus M40i has really good balance of power, and agility. No need to have a real M power engine. I'm sure its faster than M3,4,5,8 on mountains or winding roads.
I think you are underestimating the power and performance of the S58 engine. The 510 horse power is transferred exceptionally well to the rear wheels. The S58 wouldn't be able to be put into the Z4 as the whole exhaust and drive train and exhaust systems are very different. If you are looking to spec up 4 series to get close to the M4, then the price difference is not excessive once you have added all the equivalent options. Might as well buy an M4.
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      06-03-2021, 12:14 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad View Post
I think you are underestimating the power and performance of the S58 engine. The 510 horse power is transferred exceptionally well to the rear wheels. The S58 wouldn't be able to be put into the Z4 as the whole exhaust and drive train and exhaust systems are very different. If you are looking to spec up 4 series to get close to the M4, then the price difference is not excessive once you have added all the equivalent options. Might as well buy an M4.
I am very aware all the differences and how great the S58 engine is. We played around a lot on tracks with X3M when it came out 2 years ago.

If you read it carefully, my discussion was not about if it's possible to put S58 on G29, its about it does not make sense to put S58 into current G29.

It's not all about how much power you have, it's the overall balance for the purpose.
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      06-03-2021, 01:32 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Designer003 View Post
If you read it carefully, my discussion was not about if it's possible to put S58 on G29, its about it does not make sense to put S58 into current G29.

It's not all about how much power you have, it's the overall balance for the purpose.
I think the Z4 M40I has a good balance of power and performance for the car it is. I'm happy with it.

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      06-03-2021, 03:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G77 View Post
I think the Z4 M40I has a good balance of power and performance for the car it is. I'm happy with it.

Rob
Totally agree
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      06-03-2021, 10:36 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Rob_G77 View Post
I think the Z4 M40I has a good balance of power and performance for the car it is. I'm happy with it.

Rob
Me too; more power is usually a good thing but in this case there comes a point when you have enough - I'm not gonna lie and say I'd be sad with another 50hp but the whole package works well; balance, suspension, chassis stiffness, brakes, diff, etc.

I sold my Jaguar F Type V8S (which had about 510hp and was a very quick car) to get my Z4 because I wanted a smaller, lighter and more dynamic car and it delivered. I knew I was going backwards on straight line performance and raw power but I was surprized at how little I gave up - the extra 100 hp was partially offset by the 300 - 400 lbs lighter weight. Anyhow, I'm happy.

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      06-03-2021, 10:55 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
Me too; more power is usually a good thing but in this case there comes a point when you have enough - I'm not gonna lie and say I'd be sad with another 50hp but the whole package works well; balance, suspension, chassis stiffness, brakes, diff, etc.

I sold my Jaguar F Type V8S (which had about 510hp and was a very quick car) to get my Z4 because I wanted a smaller, lighter and more dynamic car and it delivered. I knew I was going backwards on straight line performance and raw power but I was surprized at how little I gave up - the extra 100 hp was partially offset by the 300 - 400 lbs lighter weight. Anyhow, I'm happy.

Dave
Agree, I came to the same solution between the M235 and 435 back in 2015. Same engines with torque and HP curves, but about 300 lbs difference....let alone the M235 was $10k less. That made the decision easier.
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      06-03-2021, 12:35 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
I was surprized at how little I gave up - Anyhow, I'm happy.

Dave
Similar feelings after SL550. Things I miss but about 1/2 MSRP, more than adequate performance & enough new tech to make it seem like an almost lateral move. Very happy.
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      06-03-2021, 12:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ007 View Post
Agree, I came to the same solution between the M235 and 435 back in 2015. Same engines with torque and HP curves, but about 300 lbs difference....let alone the M235 was $10k less. That made the decision easier.
I don't really appreciate the 4. 2 for fun. 6/8 for large.
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      06-03-2021, 12:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL View Post
I don't really appreciate the 4. 2 for fun. 6/8 for large.
the 2 is a great daily. the 4 is a slower, more comfortable version of the 2. now that the 6 is no more, i can't, in good conscience, spend that much for 6 cylinder. if i could, i would get a porche.
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      06-03-2021, 02:19 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by TAZ007 View Post
the 2 is a great daily. the 4 is a slower, more comfortable version of the 2. now that the 6 is no more, i can't, in good conscience, spend that much for 6 cylinder. if i could, i would get a porche.
Depends on the 2 & the 4. Had a 2014 435 & 2018 440. Both had the performance pack which brought the 440 to 355BHP advertised.

Forgot what the 2014 435 with the power back was. My 2011 335is was 320BHP advertised but ran 319/321 on a Dynojet pure stock. Ran a best of 13.0 & 110mph. Had a 7 second overboost function built in that raised the torque to 370ftlbs. The 435 with the pack was quicker.

The 2 would be better on a moonshine road but in a pure factory stock straight acceleration contest the 440 would (did) win.

Like the idea of the small agile 2 series, still have a 2013 135is 6MT convertible with a JB4 tune. The 135is was the then current 3 series coupe/convertible with a section cut out to shorten it. You can see how the 3/4 series has grown by comparing the 135 & Z4.



Think the new 2022 M240 AWD B58 @ 382BHP will be a very good package & will have to see where it drives the M2 performance too.

In the one up contest my oldest daughter is waiting on the Pig Snout M4 Convertible to be released. Very unhappy the MT has been canned. Her personal ride since high school has been a MT, mostly convertibles.

We always take the PCD in Greer with the current buyer and the non-buyer as the guest. We would never think about a competition with each other on the various exercises.
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