BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW Z4 Forums (G29) BMW Z4 (G29) General Forum Autocar: Z4 M Not completely out of the picture

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-20-2018, 02:33 PM   #23
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonNW View Post
Z has never managed to hit the spot, because it seems that Z knows it's not M, so it's never tried to be a pure driving experience.
Holy sh*tballs you guys DO know that BMW has made Zs before the mighty E89 Z4, right?

Zs have never managed to hit the spot? Have you ever see or driven a BMW Z3? Modern day BMW roadster with classic proportions, minimalist but classy interior, pure, simple, lightweight roadster with soft-top that weighs less than 3,000 lbs even in M guise with an iron-block, 325HP inline 6 motor boasting 6 individual throttle bodies? The BMW M division's decision to stuff the greatest inline 6 ever built in the SMALLEST BMW in the line-up and said "f**k you" to the bean counters?

Or the Z8 that harkens back to the most beautiful BMW ever built, the great 507 of yesteryear, that most still consider the best looking BMW to come from Chris Bangle's oversight*? A massive, V8 powered ALL ALUMINUM bodied roadster with long, swooping lines, the pure essence of open road cruising that defined the classic roadster genre brought back to life? Sheer open air elegance that no other BMW has managed to match since? Lines so sexy it prompted some journalist to utter "if it was a woman, I'd f**k it" in private?

Even the FIRST generation of the Z4 was nothing short of a thrilling execution of modern "roadster"-ism. Quick, nimble, tossible and lightweight (again, sub 3,000 lbs for a modern post Y2K car) packed with modern suspension underpinning, that could and would run circles around its BMW "big brothers" in a wide variety of motorsport applications, such as canyon carving, auto-cross, or even track events that involves turning left AND right? One of the most satisfying BMW chassis to drive, and outside of the late E9x M3, the LAST of the analog BMW's built up until 2008?

BMW Z has never managed to hit the spot?

BMW Zs have always been the REAL definition of roadsters IMO. And that's always been part of the problem. The true "enthusiast" roadster market was never big to start with. Nor do the market care for high-end, top dollar roadsters like the BMW and the Merc SL/SLK, especially TODAY. This isn't a market that a $60K roadster can support, unless it happens to be a Porsche since the Boxster variant has always had a market as the "cheapest Porsche you can buy." I suspect the Boxster/Cayman sales has always been strong not because they're roadsters, but because they're CHEAP Porsches (relatively speaking).

* Yes I am WELL aware that the Z8 was penned by Henrik Fisker, not Chris Bangle.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 4
      08-21-2018, 03:44 AM   #24
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Holy sh*tballs you guys DO know that BMW has made Zs before the mighty E89 Z4, right?

Zs have never managed to hit the spot? Have you ever see or driven a BMW Z3? Modern day BMW roadster with classic proportions, minimalist but classy interior, pure, simple, lightweight roadster with soft-top that weighs less than 3,000 lbs even in M guise with an iron-block, 325HP inline 6 motor boasting 6 individual throttle bodies? The BMW M division's decision to stuff the greatest inline 6 ever built in the SMALLEST BMW in the line-up and said "f**k you" to the bean counters?

Or the Z8 that harkens back to the most beautiful BMW ever built, the great 507 of yesteryear, that most still consider the best looking BMW to come from Chris Bangle's oversight*? A massive, V8 powered ALL ALUMINUM bodied roadster with long, swooping lines, the pure essence of open road cruising that defined the classic roadster genre brought back to life? Sheer open air elegance that no other BMW has managed to match since? Lines so sexy it prompted some journalist to utter "if it was a woman, I'd f**k it" in private?

Even the FIRST generation of the Z4 was nothing short of a thrilling execution of modern "roadster"-ism. Quick, nimble, tossible and lightweight (again, sub 3,000 lbs for a modern post Y2K car) packed with modern suspension underpinning, that could and would run circles around its BMW "big brothers" in a wide variety of motorsport applications, such as canyon carving, auto-cross, or even track events that involves turning left AND right? One of the most satisfying BMW chassis to drive, and outside of the late E9x M3, the LAST of the analog BMW's built up until 2008?

BMW Z has never managed to hit the spot?

BMW Zs have always been the REAL definition of roadsters IMO. And that's always been part of the problem. The true "enthusiast" roadster market was never big to start with. Nor do the market care for high-end, top dollar roadsters like the BMW and the Merc SL/SLK, especially TODAY. This isn't a market that a $60K roadster can support, unless it happens to be a Porsche since the Boxster variant has always had a market as the "cheapest Porsche you can buy." I suspect the Boxster/Cayman sales has always been strong not because they're roadsters, but because they're CHEAP Porsches (relatively speaking).

* Yes I am WELL aware that the Z8 was penned by Henrik Fisker, not Chris Bangle.
IMO, BMW will not make a hardcore Z4M again. I think it was considered a mistake by management due to the terrible sales numbers. The 1M let the engineers have their fun and it turned into a viable product (M2). Two seaters are a different proposition and it's hard to compete with the Boxster/Cayman, which has poor sales itself.

I wish they would make a real GT4 fighter but history has shown BMW is not interested in making a serious sports car.

We should also admit the Z3M and Z4M were slightly compromised by iffy suspension setups and tires (Z4M) from the factory. They just didn't try hard enough. You have to do better than reaching into the 3 series parts bin if you want to be the best car in the segment.
Appreciate 1
      08-22-2018, 09:15 AM   #25
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
IMO, BMW will not make a hardcore Z4M again. I think it was considered a mistake by management due to the terrible sales numbers. The 1M let the engineers have their fun and it turned into a viable product (M2). Two seaters are a different proposition and it's hard to compete with the Boxster/Cayman, which has poor sales itself.

I wish they would make a real GT4 fighter but history has shown BMW is not interested in making a serious sports car.

We should also admit the Z3M and Z4M were slightly compromised by iffy suspension setups and tires (Z4M) from the factory. They just didn't try hard enough. You have to do better than reaching into the 3 series parts bin if you want to be the best car in the segment.

true story.
Appreciate 1
chris7197273.00
      08-22-2018, 05:36 PM   #26
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
We should also admit the Z3M and Z4M were slightly compromised by iffy suspension setups and tires (Z4M) from the factory. They just didn't try hard enough. You have to do better than reaching into the 3 series parts bin if you want to be the best car in the segment.
Compromise is not the word I'd use. Constrained.

The Z3 M and Z4 M are what they are. They're M cars derived from their run of the mill counterparts, just like M3s derive most of it's parts from the run of the mill 3 series.

In the case of the Z3 M, as the Z3 was introduced in 1997 and was designed to use the single trailing arm design to save weight, money, and fit the compact rear subframe, they had to take the parts and design from the E30 to fit. So when the M variant of the Z3 was made, it was stuck with the single rear trailing arm design for the rear suspension rather than the multi-link rears in the E36 M3. There were no compromises to be made, but the constraints of what the regular Z3 chassis afforded.

The Z4 M was basically assembled from taking the rear end from the E46 M3 and the front end of the E36 M3, both at the time, the best parts bin parts BMW has to offer. But, since the chassis for the Z4 is built in Spartanburg, South Carolina, unlike the E46 M3 which is built in Regensburg Germany, the Z4 M is constrained to the tire available at Spartanburg for the size that it required, which is Continental ContiSportContact 2s. While the Regensburg plant in Germany had access to both Continental ContiSportContact 2 AND Michelin Pilot Sport 2s at the time due to it's location. Some E46 M3 won the tire lottery and were equipped with Michelins, some were equipped with Contis. While ALL Z4 Ms were equipped with Contis because they came from South Carolina, constrained by what is available at the plant.

If Z4s were built in Germany like the rest of the E46 line-up, chances would have been good that Z4 Ms would have been like E46 M3s, some coming with Michelins, some coming with Contis as those were the two suppliers BMW uses for the 225/45/18 and 255/40/18 non-runflat tires. Memory is a little hazy, as I recall on the E46 M3s if you ordered 19" wheels, you're virtually guaranteed Michelins because Continental did not supply tires in that size for non-runflats for BMW.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 1
      08-23-2018, 03:32 AM   #27
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Compromise is not the word I'd use. Constrained.

The Z3 M and Z4 M are what they are. They're M cars derived from their run of the mill counterparts, just like M3s derive most of it's parts from the run of the mill 3 series.

In the case of the Z3 M, as the Z3 was introduced in 1997 and was designed to use the single trailing arm design to save weight, money, and fit the compact rear subframe, they had to take the parts and design from the E30 to fit. So when the M variant of the Z3 was made, it was stuck with the single rear trailing arm design for the rear suspension rather than the multi-link rears in the E36 M3. There were no compromises to be made, but the constraints of what the regular Z3 chassis afforded.

The Z4 M was basically assembled from taking the rear end from the E46 M3 and the front end of the E36 M3, both at the time, the best parts bin parts BMW has to offer. But, since the chassis for the Z4 is built in Spartanburg, South Carolina, unlike the E46 M3 which is built in Regensburg Germany, the Z4 M is constrained to the tire available at Spartanburg for the size that it required, which is Continental ContiSportContact 2s. While the Regensburg plant in Germany had access to both Continental ContiSportContact 2 AND Michelin Pilot Sport 2s at the time due to it's location. Some E46 M3 won the tire lottery and were equipped with Michelins, some were equipped with Contis. While ALL Z4 Ms were equipped with Contis because they came from South Carolina, constrained by what is available at the plant.

If Z4s were built in Germany like the rest of the E46 line-up, chances would have been good that Z4 Ms would have been like E46 M3s, some coming with Michelins, some coming with Contis as those were the two suppliers BMW uses for the 225/45/18 and 255/40/18 non-runflat tires. Memory is a little hazy, as I recall on the E46 M3s if you ordered 19" wheels, you're virtually guaranteed Michelins because Continental did not supply tires in that size for non-runflats for BMW.
Same thing, really. If they want to compete with Porsche they might have to ship some tires across the Atlantic ocean. Excusing them for only being able to pull parts out of the E36 or E46 bin or not source current production tires is letting them off the hook. GM can develop / source some exotic dampers for a short production-run Camaro but BMW can't do better than E36 suspension components from 1995 in 2006.
Appreciate 1
      09-26-2018, 12:18 AM   #28
ried
Captain
ried's Avatar
United_States
792
Rep
817
Posts

Drives: F31, F80
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Time for BMW to grow a pair and build a real sports car again. My M2 is great, but I love my E86 M Coupe. A modern M Coupe with an S55 would be BMW's sweet spot.

Look at all the love that Supra is getting. It's a re-badged Z4 Coupe. Make an M version with the S55 and blow them out of the water.
Appreciate 1
gnx751.50
      10-01-2018, 10:04 AM   #29
Big boi m5
Lieutenant
No_Country
322
Rep
489
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

BMW NEEDs to do the Z4 iM.

They have a 14k rev in-line 4 for the HP4 Race bike. Throw that in their with the i8s electric motor and a light weight gear box. They would go perfect together. The emotor making up for the bike engines low torque and the bike engines power taking over as it revs up.

About 330hp but make it light weight and spartan with e85 style suspension with a stick. Instant classic 38 mpg plus the emotor.

This would be huge.
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2018, 10:25 AM   #30
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
BMW NEEDs to do the Z4 iM.

They have a 14k rev in-line 4 for the HP4 Race bike. Throw that in their with the i8s electric motor and a light weight gear box. They would go perfect together. The emotor making up for the bike engines low torque and the bike engines power taking over as it revs up.

About 330hp but make it light weight and spartan with e85 style suspension with a stick. Instant classic 38 mpg plus the emotor.

This would be huge.
And heavy. The battery pack needed to power an electric motor would ALL but guarantee that this "car" would weigh in excess of 3,500 lbs without significant use of exotic material. At that point, you might was well just stick with the i8 because it'll probably cost the same.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2018, 03:30 AM   #31
kyrix1st
Colonel
kyrix1st's Avatar
2351
Rep
2,359
Posts

Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: nyc

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
They need to shut it and bring 6MT on it already.
__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST