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      08-15-2019, 02:19 AM   #23
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Would you expect anything else? Audis have always been very "numb" cars to drive. This wasn't going to be any different. I think the TT is getting killed off anyway, it won't be missed.
I test drove the Audi TT 2.0T FSI Quattro TTS 2dr S Tronic version before the Z4 M40i and came away feeling exactly this.

No HUD or centre console screen was a minus also for me.

I wanted to really like the tt as since it's conception I have always admired its design but it really wasn't the car for me.
The TT was an icon for its time.

I remember being completely wowed by the TT.

It clearly didn't evolve enough or Audi wouldn't be killing it.
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      08-15-2019, 02:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Ouch .. Audi needs a stiff chin for this..


" The TT RS has the performance and makes the right noises, but you feel so far removed from the task of driving the car that it’s difficult to form anything close to a meaningful relationship with it. And unlike the BMW, and particularly the Porsche, you also feel as though you’re perched on top of the car rather than in it, so it’s difficult to ignore those hatchback underpinnings. "
The Z4 seems to be a car that has raw potential to be a great but is destined to die quietly (as was indicated in another article) because BMW chooses to limit its potential.

It has the looks to be desirable, the chassis to be entertaining and the refinement to be sophisticated, yet BMW has decided run with it in a middle of the road setting that it will never see a coupe or full M version.

Speaking from a car enthusiast (not sales or marketing) point of view, this strategy is something that killed it legacy and its future in the line up from the start.
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      08-15-2019, 06:19 AM   #25
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Who else had to google antipodean? Lol
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      08-15-2019, 06:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N & M View Post
The Z4 seems to be a car that has raw potential to be a great but is destined to die quietly (as was indicated in another article) because BMW chooses to limit its potential.

It has the looks to be desirable, the chassis to be entertaining and the refinement to be sophisticated, yet BMW has decided run with it in a middle of the road setting that it will never see a coupe or full M version.

Speaking from a car enthusiast (not sales or marketing) point of view, this strategy is something that killed it legacy and its future in the line up from the start.
The only good thing that might come out of this is the new Z4 is a cracking car as you can see from many if its reviews and therefore it may hold its value well if it becomes a future classic.
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      08-15-2019, 07:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20MAW73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by N & M View Post
The Z4 seems to be a car that has raw potential to be a great but is destined to die quietly (as was indicated in another article) because BMW chooses to limit its potential.

It has the looks to be desirable, the chassis to be entertaining and the refinement to be sophisticated, yet BMW has decided run with it in a middle of the road setting that it will never see a coupe or full M version.

Speaking from a car enthusiast (not sales or marketing) point of view, this strategy is something that killed it legacy and its future in the line up from the start.
The only good thing that might come out of this is the new Z4 is a cracking car as you can see from many if its reviews and therefore it may hold its value well if it becomes a future classic.
It will most certainly not become a future collectable. Its mass produced, shares a platform with many vehicles, doesn't really have much to make it special and most of all NO MANUAL, I don't see this being anywhere close to a classic even with the small number of sales, it lacks any desirability and will likely be remembered because of the Supra.
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      08-15-2019, 07:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F20MAW73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Would you expect anything else? Audis have always been very "numb" cars to drive. This wasn't going to be any different. I think the TT is getting killed off anyway, it won't be missed.
I test drove the Audi TT 2.0T FSI Quattro TTS 2dr S Tronic version before the Z4 M40i and came away feeling exactly this.

No HUD or centre console screen was a minus also for me.

I wanted to really like the tt as since it's conception I have always admired its design but it really wasn't the car for me.
The TT was an icon for its time.

I remember being completely wowed by the TT.

It clearly didn't evolve enough or Audi wouldn't be killing it.
I think being stuck with a transverse engine and being part of the VW group and not being able to outshine the Boxster are the two things leading to its death. And it should never be a convertible. Looks okay as a coupe.
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      08-15-2019, 07:46 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F20MAW73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Would you expect anything else? Audis have always been very "numb" cars to drive. This wasn't going to be any different. I think the TT is getting killed off anyway, it won't be missed.
I test drove the Audi TT 2.0T FSI Quattro TTS 2dr S Tronic version before the Z4 M40i and came away feeling exactly this.

No HUD or centre console screen was a minus also for me.

I wanted to really like the tt as since it's conception I have always admired its design but it really wasn't the car for me.
The TT was an icon for its time.

I remember being completely wowed by the TT.

It clearly didn't evolve enough or Audi wouldn't be killing it.
I think being stuck with a transverse engine and being part of the VW group and not being able to outshine the Boxster are the two things leading to its death. And it should never be a convertible. Looks okay as a coupe.
Agreed it looks horrendous as a convertible.
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      08-15-2019, 08:19 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F20MAW73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Would you expect anything else? Audis have always been very "numb" cars to drive. This wasn't going to be any different. I think the TT is getting killed off anyway, it won't be missed.
I test drove the Audi TT 2.0T FSI Quattro TTS 2dr S Tronic version before the Z4 M40i and came away feeling exactly this.

No HUD or centre console screen was a minus also for me.

I wanted to really like the tt as since it's conception I have always admired its design but it really wasn't the car for me.
The TT was an icon for its time.

I remember being completely wowed by the TT.

It clearly didn't evolve enough or Audi wouldn't be killing it.
I think being stuck with a transverse engine and being part of the VW group and not being able to outshine the Boxster are the two things leading to its death. And it should never be a convertible. Looks okay as a coupe.
Agreed it looks horrendous as a convertible.
The TT Convertible is a total chick car.
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      08-15-2019, 08:48 AM   #31
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Quote:
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While BMW does sporty better than Audi... it just seems that BMW is giving in to FWD and AWD for better profits... and forsaking their RWD roots, leaving disappointed enthusiasts in their wake. The review of cars by @joshuastein55. is an excellent example of this. While BMW is giving more credence to it's AWD and FWD rivals by playing into their hands and trying to beat them at their game , BMW is also losing the exact thing that made them successful and differentiated them in the market place to begin with.
The xdrive and quattro have some major differences.
Not only BMW still mounts their engines on-behind the front axle (Except for new 1 series and X1), but also all their xdrive systems are very rear biased. Audi's numbness comes from heavy front (transverse engine), and lack of balance. BMW's xdrive cars don't have that.
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      08-15-2019, 09:05 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
While BMW does sporty better than Audi... it just seems that BMW is giving in to FWD and AWD for better profits... and forsaking their RWD roots, leaving disappointed enthusiasts in their wake. The review of cars by @joshuastein55. is an excellent example of this. While BMW is giving more credence to it's AWD and FWD rivals by playing into their hands and trying to beat them at their game , BMW is also losing the exact thing that made them successful and differentiated them in the market place to begin with.
The xdrive and quattro have some major differences.
Not only BMW still mounts their engines on-behind the front axle (Except for new 1 series and X1), but also all their xdrive systems are very rear biased. Audi's numbness comes from heavy front (transverse engine), and lack of balance. BMW's xdrive cars don't have that.
Uh, sure. You even admit that BMW has transverse cars, just as Audi does. Audi also has all but the A3/TT cars with longitudinal engines and the same exact 40/60 power split.
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      08-15-2019, 09:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F20MAW73 View Post
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by F20MAW73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Would you expect anything else? Audis have always been very "numb" cars to drive. This wasn't going to be any different. I think the TT is getting killed off anyway, it won't be missed.
I test drove the Audi TT 2.0T FSI Quattro TTS 2dr S Tronic version before the Z4 M40i and came away feeling exactly this.

No HUD or centre console screen was a minus also for me.

I wanted to really like the tt as since it's conception I have always admired its design but it really wasn't the car for me.
The TT was an icon for its time.

I remember being completely wowed by the TT.

It clearly didn't evolve enough or Audi wouldn't be killing it.
I think being stuck with a transverse engine and being part of the VW group and not being able to outshine the Boxster are the two things leading to its death. And it should never be a convertible. Looks okay as a coupe.
Agreed it looks horrendous as a convertible.
The TT Convertible is a total chick car.
Rather sexist but true
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      08-15-2019, 10:43 AM   #34
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NOT the Boxter S, which is the fairer comparison no?
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      08-15-2019, 10:48 AM   #35
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NOT the Boxter S, which is the fairer comparison no?
No; the price premium for a Boxster S with less options than a Z4 M40i is massive. I priced both out here and the Z4 M40i with virtually every option was $ 98,200.00 Canadian including taxes. The Boxster S with less options was $ 134,550.00

Aside from the price, I found the Boxsters S's 2.5 Turbo four to be a real yawner.....keeping in mind that here, the Z4 has more power than the one used in this test.

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      08-15-2019, 03:35 PM   #36
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Battle of which hairdressers slipper is better😒
Were you beaten up a lot as a kid or something?
No....were you?
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      08-15-2019, 03:48 PM   #37
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No....were you?
Nope.

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      08-16-2019, 06:02 AM   #38
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Might we be the case

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The only good thing that might come out of this is the new Z4 is a cracking car as you can see from many if its reviews and therefore it may hold its value well if it becomes a future classic.
Judging from past efforts, this has a good probability of happening mate.
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      08-16-2019, 06:04 AM   #39
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I think the Supra and Toyota are the ones who will benefit

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It will most certainly not become a future collectable. Its mass produced, shares a platform with many vehicles, doesn't really have much to make it special and most of all NO MANUAL, I don't see this being anywhere close to a classic even with the small number of sales, it lacks any desirability and will likely be remembered because of the Supra.
More likely Toyota will be the one who benefits from the association present and future.
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      08-18-2019, 12:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
by Simon Davis
10 August 2019

It was always going to happen, wasn’t it? Even in the middle of July, no more than a fortnight after temperatures around the UK soared into the mid-30s, it would seem that gathering a triumvirate of convertible sports cars together in North Wales is still too much like tempting fate. Or the weather gods. Or any other abstract concept you’d usually curse and swear at while shaking your fist at the sky, wondering why oh why, on today of all days, did it have to rain. How typical.

But anyway, the new BMW Z4 M40i is one of the latest examples of the breed to touch down on our shores. Previous iterations of Munich’s two-door drop-top haven’t always been praised for being standout driver’s cars, but BMW seems confident this third-generation model is the one to rewrite that history for the better. A Nürburgring lap time reportedly some three seconds quicker than that of its M2 stable-mate is certainly an encouraging sign. So too is the fact that the Toyota Supra – the BMW’s brother from another mother – emerged victorious when we pitted it against the Porsche Cayman T and BMW M2 a few weeks back.

With all that in mind, the temptation to gather together a handful of ideologically aligned adversaries and head for the hills proved too strong to resist. Which is exactly why our test subjects – made up of said Z4, a Porsche 718 Boxster T and an Audi TT RS Roadster – are now moored in a windswept, soggy car park on the side of the B4391, completely saturated.

But sitting here, watching snapper Olgun Kordal fish around in his bag for the correct lens as the fine, mist-like rain continues to drive home the fact that one of us should have checked the weather forecast, isn’t without its perks. From this vantage point, you can appreciate just how motley this crew of convertibles really is, and soak in the diversity of the drop-top landscape in 2019.

Of the three cars here, the BMW is closest to the archetypal convertible sports car. Its long, muscular bonnet houses a longitudinal 3.0-litre turbocharged straight six, which sends its 335bhp and 369lb ft straight to the rear wheels via an eight-speed ZF torque-converter automatic ’box and an electronic slippy diff. Adaptive M Sport suspension drops its ride height by 10mm compared with the standard Z4, and also throws in electronically controlled dampers. And unlike its predecessor, there’s a folding canvas roof instead of a metal one, which helps reduce weight, lower the car’s centre of gravity and – in my mind at least – lend it a bit more in the way of authenticity. That said, at 1535kg, it’s still the heaviest car here.

The Boxster, meanwhile, forges a different path. It is mid-engined, for starters, and its 295bhp 2.0-litre flat four does seem a bit weedy by comparison. But in T guise, this is supposed to be the sharpest, most focused version of the 718 Boxster breed (Weissach-fettled Spyder aside, obviously). As such, there’s a torque-vectoring differential at the rear axle, a 20mm drop in ride height, active drivetrain mounts and Porsche’s Sport Chrono package as standard. Modest weight-saving measures have also been employed, and at 1350kg the T is the lightest car here. Oh, and it’s also the only one with a six-speed manual ’box, which is a very good thing.

Compared with those two, the Audi is a bit of an oddball. First, it’s based on the same platform as a Volkswagen Golf, and has been on the receiving end of a few style-over-substance-related criticisms over the course of its 20-odd-year existence. But even so, in RS guise the TT is also one of the more fascinating members of our trio. There’s a front-mounted five-cylinder motor that churns out a fairly ludicrous 395bhp. It’s also got four-wheel drive and a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission, and will hit 62mph from a standstill in a claimed 3.9sec. So in terms of straight-line thrust, it’s the fastest car here.

It feels like the fastest car here on these sodden Welsh roads, too; and its ridiculous turn of pace has as much to do with its unflappable willingness to simply stick to the surface of the road as it does the engine. You can brake later, turn in harder and get on the power earlier out of corners than you can in the other two, and simply trust that it’ll sort everything out for you without coming a cropper.

That engine is a massively characterful thing, too, and the ability to bask in the full glory of its thuggish, offbeat warble transforming into a serrated howl as you floor the throttle with the top down is an experience to be savoured.

It’s not the most responsive powerplant, mind. Despite its 354lb ft being available from as low as 1700rpm, things don’t really start to get going until 3500rpm or so. Plant your foot below this point and the delay between input and response as the boost builds can be frustrating, particularly if you’re not too hot on your shifts and find yourself trying to power out of a corner a gear too high. Get everything wound up, though, and this engine pulls with an alarming amount of savagery.

Impressive as the Audi is in the wet, as the weather starts to lift and the roads begin to dry out, its appeal begins to wane. You start to notice just how numb and distant the otherwise accurate steering rack feels. You also realise that while that all-weather traction is a wonderful thing when it’s tipping down, in the dry it translates to a shortage of expressiveness that seems at odds with the sorts of thrills you’d expect from a drop-top sports car. You wouldn’t accuse the Z4 of suffering from such an affliction, though. Next to the limpet-like Audi, the BMW demands far more concentration to drive quickly. You can feel its rear end shimmying around as you power through roughly surfaced or off-camber bends, while its thick-rimmed steering wheel lends the impression that you’re man-handling rather than deftly guiding it through corners. That’s not to say it doesn’t change direction keenly, or that it feels in any way primitive in the way it handles, but there’s a distinctly hairy-chested, street-fighter streak to its dynamic attitude that’s difficult not to take a shining to.

Admittedly, its body isn’t as tightly controlled as that of the Audi and it makes a greater show of its weight through corners, but it’s no deal-breaker. If anything, its supple, more forgiving set-up makes the Z4 the car you’d choose for long-distance stints – and it certainly dispatched the long drive up from London with little bother.

And while its 3.0-litre straight six might not quite match the TT’s five-pot for outright character or performance, it’s the most responsive of the two by a mile. It’s coupled with a gearbox that’s seems happier to respond to a tug of the paddle shifters than the Audi’s twin-clutch arrangement is, too. But even if your concentration falters and you allow the revs to drop off, its well of torque is there as a safety net. All 369lb ft of its muscle is available from 1600rpm, and it feels it. This is an engine that’s happy to pull from any point in the rev range, right up to the redline.

The same can’t be said of the Boxster’s engine, which can feel even more lethargic and strangled than the Audi’s. There’s very little low-down urgency present here, and progress from this point feels noticeably stunted. It’s not until you get the crankshaft spinning at speeds well above the 3500rpm mark that it starts to come to life, but even then the accompanying soundtrack is nothing more than a flatulent drone.

Which is a pity, really, because the Boxster T is easily the sharpest-handling car here. In terms of its responsiveness, its balance and its fleet-footedness, it’s simply on another level. The dainty steering wheel paints a far clearer picture of how the tyres are interacting with the road than the other two, and at all times its chassis feels as though it’s more in tune with both your inputs and the Tarmac beneath you.

With its adaptive dampers in their firmest setting, the car can feel a bit too tightly controlled for the roads we’re on, but slacken them off and it breathes with the topography under-wheel in a graceful, elegant fashion. The short throw of its manual ’box is wonderfully tactile and a joy to engage with too, so the fact you’ll need to interact with it so much to keep the engine on the boil is at least one silver lining to its asthmatic performance. It’s an utterly flattering sports car, this – adjustable, communicative and engaging to the last.

But you know what? Of the three, I don’t think it’d be the car I’d go for if it were my money on the line. While it’s undoubtedly the sweetest to drive of the three, as far as drop-tops are concerned the theatre that comes from actually driving them is just as important. And on that front, the Boxster’s characterless engine simply isn’t up to the task. If it had a bit more punch, a bit more soul – perhaps even a bit more in the way of cylinder count – it’d probably walk this test. As it stands, it just misses out.

Missing out by a greater margin is the Audi, which is problematic because it takes things too far in the opposite direction. The TT RS has the performance and makes the right noises, but you feel so far removed from the task of driving the car that it’s difficult to form anything close to a meaningful relationship with it. And unlike the BMW, and particularly the Porsche, you also feel as though you’re perched on top of the car rather than in it, so it’s difficult to ignore those hatchback underpinnings.

It’s the BMW’s ability to strike a balance between these extremes that sees it clinch victory today, if only by the skin of its teeth. The Z4 has the engine, plus the everyday refinement, that would make it an easy car to live with on a daily basis. Its cabin is the smartest of the bunch, too, and carries with it the most premium appeal. The BMW may not have the clinical, delicate finesse of the Porsche, but it excites in its own characterful, heavy-hitting way that feels genuinely authentic and is absolutely endearing. Put it this way: the Boxster might be the car you’d take for a drive, but the Z4 is the one you’d take for a fang. You’ll have to forgive the Antipodean slang, but it gives you a good idea of what separates these two very different sports cars.
Convertible clash: New BMW Z4 vs Porsche Boxster and Audi TT

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E85 was the best Z4 they built!
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