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      10-21-2016, 04:48 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
Here's the litmus test folks. If Trump had blurted out the 4 min timeline what would the response be from the MSM and the Clinton camp?
There would be additional questions as to how Trump would be able to state that figure. That's if people believe his statement. Remember, Trump isn't a career politician and has never held a position prior to running for President where he would have access to classified information.

Both Trump and Clinton have been getting classified briefings due to their status as the top candidates from their respective parties. Yet Trump hasn't leaked anything pertaining to information he has been briefed on. But the career politician who has held positions with classified access along with required annual classified material handling briefings, just shot her mouth off on live TV.
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      10-21-2016, 04:49 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
There would be additional questions as to how Trump would be able to state that figure. That's if people believe his statement. Remember, Trump isn't a career politician and has never held a position prior to running for President where he would have access to classified information.

Both Trump and Clinton have been getting classified briefings due to their status as the top candidates from their respective parties. Yet Trump hasn't leaked anything pertaining to information he has been briefed on. But the career politician who has held positions with classified access along with required annual classified material handling briefings, just shot her mouth off on live TV.
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      10-21-2016, 04:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by UglyBuzzard View Post
Don't care if it was Clinton or Trump. What happened was wrong no matter what.
Yeah, right. Trump was right when he said he "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters".
You do know a joke when you hear one, right?

How is this the same as classified or sensitive info?

Reaching pretty far and demonstrating pure genius.
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      10-21-2016, 05:43 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
DoD Directive 5205.02E Section 4
Thanks. I missed this in a flurry of last minute BS at work.

Is this what you are referring to:

"c. DoD personnel shall maintain essential secrecy of information that is useful to adversaries and potential adversaries to plan, prepare, and conduct military and other operations against the United States and shall safeguard such information from unauthorized access and disclosure in accordance with DoD Manual 5200.01 (Reference (d))."

"Essential secrecy" is defined in another document - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction 3213.01C as :

"The condition achieved from the denial of critical information to adversaries through the combined efforts of traditional security programs and the operations security process."

Again, if the information is not secret i.e. well know to those who seek it out, I don't see a violation of that policy.

Similarly, our adversaries were not "denied" this info about the 4 minute warning b/c anyone with internet access would have learned of in 60 seconds.

Does anyone recall when Nixon spill the beans in a press conference? That was an utter intel failure IIRC.

I'll post a link later.
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      10-21-2016, 05:51 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Thanks. I missed this in a flurry of last minute BS at work.

Is this what you are referring to:

"c. DoD personnel shall maintain essential secrecy of information that is useful to adversaries and potential adversaries to plan, prepare, and conduct military and other operations against the United States and shall safeguard such information from unauthorized access and disclosure in accordance with DoD Manual 5200.01 (Reference (d))."

"Essential secrecy" is defined in another document - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction 3213.01C as :

"The condition achieved from the denial of critical information to adversaries through the combined efforts of traditional security programs and the operations security process."

Again, if the information is not secret i.e. well know to those who seek it out, I don't see a violation of that policy.

Similarly, our adversaries were not "denied" this info about the 4 minute warning b/c anyone with internet access would have learned of in 60 seconds.

Does anyone recall when Nixon spill the beans in a press conference? That was an utter intel failure IIRC.

I'll post a link later.
It's not about whether the information is accurate that is deemed classified being out in the public. It's about making statements from a position of authority where your statements has validated that information out in the wild. Clinton had no authorization to make any statements with specificity concerning the response time of a nuclear response. This is the reason why any person with classified access won't comment on anything and speak in very general terms.

But this issue doesn't surprise me at all based on the Clinton's past disregard for classified material.
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      10-21-2016, 05:53 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Thanks. I missed this in a flurry of last minute BS at work.

Is this what you are referring to:

"c. DoD personnel shall maintain essential secrecy of information that is useful to adversaries and potential adversaries to plan, prepare, and conduct military and other operations against the United States and shall safeguard such information from unauthorized access and disclosure in accordance with DoD Manual 5200.01 (Reference (d))."

"Essential secrecy" is defined in another document - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction 3213.01C as :

"The condition achieved from the denial of critical information to adversaries through the combined efforts of traditional security programs and the operations security process."

Again, if the information is not secret i.e. well know to those who seek it out, I don't see a violation of that policy.

Similarly, our adversaries were not "denied" this info about the 4 minute warning b/c anyone with internet access would have learned of in 60 seconds.

Does anyone recall when Nixon spill the beans in a press conference? That was an utter intel failure IIRC.

I'll post a link later.
1. Regarding Nixon, this update is from 2012.
2. Regarding what we think doesn't matter. I can assure you they the DoD has little or no sense of humor about the illicit or mistaken divulgence of secrets.
3. If anyone else did 1/10th of what HRC did, they would be in Leavenworth.
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      10-22-2016, 01:17 PM   #73
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1. Nixon revealed actual secrets, not information that was readily available in the public domain.

2. The DoD has better things to do then get their panties in a wad over someone talking about something that is public knowledge.

3. That is just political partisanship. Her corruption is a moral issue, not a criminal issue, so far.
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      10-22-2016, 01:22 PM   #74
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      10-22-2016, 01:38 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
1. Nixon revealed actual secrets, not information that was readily available in the public domain.

2. The DoD has better things to do then get their panties in a wad over someone talking about something that is public knowledge.

3. That is just political partisanship. Her corruption is a moral issue, not a criminal issue, so far.
Opinion. You are clearly not capable of understanding what it means to have a security clearance. The partisan behavior is yours because words on paper that state she is in violation of a simple premise don't sway you.

I sincerely hope that you don't work in a sensitive job.

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      10-23-2016, 07:36 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Opinion. You are clearly not capable of understanding what it means to have a security clearance. The partisan behavior is yours because words on paper that state she is in violation of a simple premise don't sway you.

I sincerely hope that you don't work in a sensitive job.

Cheers-mk
Oh jeez.

Can you point to a case where the DoD sought to sanction someone for mentioning a longtime well known public fact?

I have taken several oaths to maintain secrecy, drafted enforceable confidentiality agreements and have prosecuted cases for their breach.

So right back at you.
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      10-23-2016, 07:39 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Oh jeez.

Can you point to a case where the DoD sought to sanction someone for mentioning a longtime well known public fact?

I have taken several oaths to maintain secrecy, drafted enforceable confidentiality agreements and have prosecuted cases for their breach.

So right back at you.
If so, then why are you asking this ridiculous question?
Oh...I know. You are a partisan hack. As long as the people who agree with you are engaged in malfeasance it is alright. Until we collectively call out all of the malfeasance, it won't get better.

Don't bother responding. You are a part of the problem.
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      10-23-2016, 08:03 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Oh jeez.

Can you point to a case where the DoD sought to sanction someone for mentioning a longtime well known public fact?

I have taken several oaths to maintain secrecy, drafted enforceable confidentiality agreements and have prosecuted cases for their breach.

So right back at you.
Okay, so let's kind of clear this up... Having a U.S. government Top Secret Secure Compartmentalized Information (TS SCI) clearance is far different (read... important) than some public-sector confidentiality agreement between business partners, lawyers, or the like.

LOL
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      10-23-2016, 08:35 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Oh jeez.

Can you point to a case where the DoD sought to sanction someone for mentioning a longtime well known public fact?

I have taken several oaths to maintain secrecy, drafted enforceable confidentiality agreements and have prosecuted cases for their breach.

So right back at you.
Wow. You're comparing a NDA with a security clearance? Last time I looked, violating an NDA doesn't mean being thrown in jail and being held financially liable. Nor does violating an NDA cause you to be ineligible for holding any clearance issued by the Federal Government for at least 5 years BEFORE you can reapply for one and hope you might get considered for one without being dismissed outright. And if you are not eligible for any type of clearance, good luck finding a job working for/with the Federal Government.

I've had to abide by both NDAs and obligations from security clearances I've held (clearances that were so difficult in the adjudication process that an anal probe was more pleasant) and commercial NDAs don't even come close to what security clearances obligate you for.

As MKSixer stated in another post, don't spout out gibberish concerning issues around security clearances and classified material if you've never had a security clearance...which it's obvious by your ignorant statements is the case.

Last edited by zx10guy; 10-23-2016 at 08:54 AM..
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      10-23-2016, 08:48 AM   #80
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For those that don't have an understanding of why those of us who have had or actively hold security clearances are up in arms about the blatant hall pass HRC is getting with her violations of protecting classified information, here's a picture of how those of us peons would be treated if we did only a much lower infraction of what HRC has done.

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/indust...2-03402.a1.pdf

The person in question in the above court case actually admitted to transmitting protected information on an unclass email system. Something HRC didn't do until she was badgered by those that wouldn't let he snake her way out of it.

Here's an excerpt from the that document concerning the judge's ruling:

"The Judge’s Findings of Fact

Applicant admitted that, in 2007, he knowingly and improperly transmitted classified
information via email on an unclassified computer. He did not report this until mid-January 2011, three days before a polygraph examination. In addition, some time prior to his January 2011 polygraph, Applicant accessed and viewed pornographic material on a work computer. He received a written reprimand for this infraction.

The Judge’s Analysis
The Judge concluded that Applicant had not mitigated the concerns arising from his
misconduct. He noted that the email transmission occurred in 2007. However, the Judge stated that Applicant waited over three years to report it, although he had many opportunities to do so. He also concluded that the misuse of Applicant’s work computer was not mitigated. “[W]hen coupled with his mishandling of protected information . . . it is too soon to say that it does not cast doubt” upon Applicant’s reliability, trustworthiness, and good judgment. Decision at 4."


This person gets his security clearance pulled. HRC gets to run for President.
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      10-23-2016, 09:25 AM   #81
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The worst part of all of these conversations is that the liberal media has blown off Hillary's infractions just like several on this board.

What has that done?

Misled the general public with misinformation of the seriousness of the complete failures of HRC and her cronies to maintain OPSEC and classified information.

People don't understand that the Cold War never truly ended. If anything it expanded during the intermission after Reagan.

At one point our main adversary was the Soviet Union with minor influences from the Eastern Block and China. But, now most of the Eastern Block has moved toward democracies eliminating the buffer that Russia once enjoyed causing Putin to become more intense. People think that Ukraine was a quick decission on Putin's part. It wasn't.... need for the Crimean Peninsula was well known by both sides. The naval base and nuclear sub pens of Sevastopol are to critical to Russia controlling the Black Sea.

And now China has become a major player causing serious issues in SE Asia. The Chinese have adopted newer policies that states they will no longer be viewed as subservient to anyone else in the world. Want to know more.... http://thediplomat.com/

The world is becoming a very dangerous place and being reckless and disregarding the security of the United States of America is both stupid and in HRC's case contemptible and shows her arrogance.
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      10-23-2016, 09:30 AM   #82
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You kids are too much. I am not now and never have been a Hillary supporter.

The only election sign on my front lawn is for a Republican.

We know HRC is corrupt and uses poor judgment, including on issues of security.

Do any of you experts have knowledge of anyone being sanctioned for publicly mentioning info that was in the public domain for decades?

Also, is the "four minute" issue something that is actually secret, despite being in the public domain?
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      10-23-2016, 09:33 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
The worst part of all of these conversations is that the liberal media has blown off Hillary's infractions just like several on this board.

What has that done?

Misled the general public with misinformation of the seriousness of the complete failures of HRC and her cronies to maintain OPSEC and classified information.

People don't understand that the Cold War never truly ended. If anything it expanded during the intermission after Reagan.

At one point our main adversary was the Soviet Union with minor influences from the Eastern Block and China. But, now most of the Eastern Block has moved toward democracies eliminating the buffer that Russia once enjoyed causing Putin to become more intense. People think that Ukraine was a quick decission on Putin's part. It wasn't.... need for the Crimean Peninsula was well known by both sides. The naval base and nuclear sub pens of Sevastopol are to critical to Russia controlling the Black Sea.

And now China has become a major player causing serious issues in SE Asia. The Chinese have adopted newer policies that states they will no longer be viewed as subservient to anyone else in the world. Want to know more.... http://thediplomat.com/

The world is becoming a very dangerous place and being reckless and disregarding the security of the United States of America is both stupid and in HRC's case contemptible and shows her arrogance.
I agree.
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      10-23-2016, 09:49 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
You kids are too much. I am not now and never have been a Hillary supporter.

The only election sign on my front lawn is for a Republican.

We know HRC is corrupt and uses poor judgment, including on issues of security.

Do any of you experts have knowledge of anyone being sanctioned for publicly mentioning info that was in the public domain for decades?

Also, is the "four minute" issue something that is actually secret, despite being in the public domain?
The cases of someone spewing classified info to the public are few and far between on situations like this because those who have special access KNOW better. There are things that have been bounced around in public which I have inside knowledge on and I won't comment. Because I KNOW BETTER.

Last edited by zx10guy; 10-23-2016 at 09:59 AM..
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      10-23-2016, 09:54 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
You kids are too much. I am not now and never have been a Hillary supporter.

The only election sign on my front lawn is for a Republican.

We know HRC is corrupt and uses poor judgment, including on issues of security.

Do any of you experts have knowledge of anyone being sanctioned for publicly mentioning info that was in the public domain for decades?

Also, is the "four minute" issue something that is actually secret, despite being in the public domain?
Don't know about public cases but any Joe would be in serious hot water for what she said during the debate. Forget the email situation.

Bottom line is that her judgement is poor, memory is gone, and complete disregard for the law.
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      10-23-2016, 09:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
You kids are too much. I am not now and never have been a Hillary supporter.

The only election sign on my front lawn is for a Republican.

We know HRC is corrupt and uses poor judgment, including on issues of security.

Do any of you experts have knowledge of anyone being sanctioned for publicly mentioning info that was in the public domain for decades?

Also, is the "four minute" issue something that is actually secret, despite being in the public domain?
Dude, just admit that you're an attorney and like Clinton for the presidency.
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      10-23-2016, 10:09 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Dude, just admit that you're an attorney and like Clinton for the presidency.
You are half right.
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      10-23-2016, 10:18 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
You are half right.
Hopefully about the former and not the latter.
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