[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

If it isn’t broke don’t fix it. The major issue with the G29 was the lack of a MT which has now been corrected.

Yep. I mean, we can still complain about lack of merino and other gripes but having AWD solves nothing imo.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

If it isn’t broke don’t fix it. The major issue with the G29 was the lack of a MT which has now been corrected.

Agree, I don’t feel I’m missing anything without AWD on the Z4. It’s power is well matched to the car.

[Mr. Bill]

Originally Posted by BobHen

I have a 2022 BMW M240i Xdrive. BMW's AWD is rear biased and is excellent. There is zero slip when accelerating hard from a standstill. And pulling hard out of half-way through a corner under acceleration is thrilling and very surefooted. When pushed hard, the M240i Xdrive is a torque and grip monster.

I do understand that the Z4 is a roadster with all the fun of top-down driving, power and has that sports car road feel. Nothing wrong with that.

I've actually been considering Z4s. They are very seductive machines. It might be worth the trade; top-down, roadster fun versus Xdrive. But, to be honest, I do think I would miss the AWD dynamics of Xdrive with my M240i.

A Z4 with Xdrive would be a much stronger consideration, at least for me.

Bob

The OP did warn that this topic would be controversial. The Z4 is a very seductive machine and was on my short list for the past two years. If it came in AWD I would have ended up choosing the Z. I am so happy with my tuned M240i that I would have wanted to juice the Z4 as well, but without AWD to keep things sorted in anything but ideal weather, probably not a good idea for me. I do understand the purist argument, but like fine wines, my palate is not sophisticated enough to enjoy the experience. I had a Boxster S and that experience was lost on me too. That doesn’t make the desire for an AWD Z4 wrong, just a different preference.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bill

The OP did warn that this topic would be controversial. The Z4 is a very seductive machine and was on my short list for the past two years. If it came in AWD I would have ended up choosing the Z. I am so happy with my tuned M240i that I would have wanted to juice the Z4 as well, but without AWD to keep things sorted in anything but ideal weather, probably not a good idea for me. I do understand the purist argument, but like fine wines, my palate is not sophisticated enough to enjoy the experience. I had a Boxster S and that experience was lost on me too. That doesn’t make the desire for an AWD Z4 wrong, just a different preference.

IMHO, if you were only in the market for a convertible the current M240i would not be a contender as it isn't offered in that category. So which ragtop from what is being offered by all manufacturers would you select?

[MisanoblueZ4]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bill

The OP did warn that this topic would be controversial. The Z4 is a very seductive machine and was on my short list for the past two years. If it came in AWD I would have ended up choosing the Z. I am so happy with my tuned M240i that I would have wanted to juice the Z4 as well, but without AWD to keep things sorted in anything but ideal weather, probably not a good idea for me. I do understand the purist argument, but like fine wines, my palate is not sophisticated enough to enjoy the experience. I had a Boxster S and that experience was lost on me too. That doesn’t make the desire for an AWD Z4 wrong, just a different preference.

Top down driving in the smaller Z4 packaging makes the driving experience. That should be the main consideration buying a Z4.
I know there are those that wish for a “hardtop Z4” and that wish is completely lost on me as the Supra/M2 exist for that purpose.

As far as power goes, 0-60 in under 4 and low 12’s is pretty quick for a street car. The stock low end torque is great and gets up to speed fast on the street. Not once have I felt the Z4 was out of control on the street with squeezing the throttle and not driving in an unsafe manner.

Maybe on the track the limits of RWD would be more noticeable to me, on the street/curves driven spiritedly the tires/differentail keep the power down IMO with stock hp levels.

[BEAR-AvHistory-2]

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

Top down driving in the smaller Z4 packaging makes the driving experience. That should be the main consideration buying a Z4.
I know there are those that wish for a “hardtop Z4” and that wish is completely lost on me as the Supra/M2 exist for that purpose.

As far as power goes, 0-60 in under 4 and low 12’s is pretty quick for a street car. The stock low end torque is great and gets up to speed fast on the street. Not once have I felt the Z4 was out of control on the street with squeezing the throttle and not driving in an unsafe manner.

Maybe on the track the limits of RWD would be more noticeable to me, on the street/curves driven spiritedly the tires/differentail keep the power down IMO with stock hp levels.

Don't generally disagree with you. Have said before I believe the car has great power/traction balance & don't believe AWD is necessary as the stock car is very quick as is.. Have also said the entry of a S58 would not be successful without AWD.

Have seen a number of stock B58 stay a bit a head of S58 powered M4's with RWD or AWD but running the RWD program. The S58 will run the B58 down before a quarter mile but the B58 looks good in a traffic light GP up to 60 or so.

Flip side of the is my daughter driving the M4C in AWD spanked a 495BHP Stingray in Mexico off the line & kept pulling away.

Its all about power/traction balance.

Z4 runs continuous Dragy monitored sub 4.0 sec 0-60 runs under the right conditions warm street, warm tires & temps less than 85*f, right foot managing the run.

Yesterday the conditions were not right. Cold street, warm tires about 50*F ambient. For consistency I used LC something I generally don't do. Tires broke loose for about 10 feet on launch & the 1/2 shift was enough to shift the car left. Upper 4.8 second range 0-60.

Next run found a sunny spot to launch. Got off with a chirp & some axle tramp the 1/2 shift broke loose but less exciting than the first run. Ran 4.2 to 60.

100/200 treadware tires would help but you are still subject to street & tire temperature.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory-2

Don't generally disagree with you. Have said before I believe the car has great power/traction balance & don't believe AWD is necessary as the stock car is very quick as is.. Have also said the entry of a S58 would not be successful without AWD.

Have seen a number of stock B58 stay a bit a head of S58 powered M4's with RWD or AWD but running the RWD program. The S58 will run the B58 down before a quarter mile but the B58 looks good in a traffic light GP up to 60 or so.

Flip side of the is my daughter driving the M4C in AWD spanked a 495BHP Stingray in Mexico off the line & kept pulling away.

Its all about power/traction balance.

Z4 runs continuous Dragy monitored sub 4.0 sec 0-60 runs under the right conditions warm street, warm tires & temps less than 85*f, right foot managing the run.

Yesterday the conditions were not right. Cold street, warm tires about 50*F ambient. For consistency I used LC something I generally don't do. Tires broke loose for about 10 feet on launch & the 1/2 shift was enough to shift the car left. Upper 4.8 second range 0-60.

Next run found a sunny spot to launch. Got off with a chirp & some axle tramp the 1/2 shift broke loose but less exciting than the first run. Ran 4.2 to 60.

100/200 treadware tires would help but you are still subject to street & tire temperature.

Heard the S58 is a little easier to launch due to the power/tq moved up in the rev range.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

Heard the S58 is a little easier to launch due to the power/tq moved up in the rev range.

Having had both, the Z4 is easier to launch with human modulation. But if using launch control, the S58 in the M3/4 comp x drive will smoke it and the RWD comp will probably match it. Manual M3/4 would need to nail those shifts - in manual form comparing the two, well, I haven’t had the manual Z4 but given the torque setup which imo is totally manageable in the b58 I’d put them neck and neck. First gear is more fun in the Z without a doubt. Once the s58 is in second gear, it’s warp speed.

The M3 manual doesn’t lose traction easily- assuming temps are there and tires are warm for both cars, I’d say the M3/4 manual pulls away at 70-80 mph, maybe slightly sooner if the Z slips a bit when that turbo torque hits around 2800 rpm IIRC. Then the B58 is so smooth. The S58 has some turbo boost drop with the manual if you’re not no-lift shifting and even then have to manage it correctly… two big turbos v one smaller two stage turbo… my guess is the Z4 manual is a blast to drive! The M3 manual is too, especially when getting after it…. But always nice to row the gears yourself no matter how you’re driving.

[Mr. Bill]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

IMHO, if you were only in the market for a convertible the current M240i would not be a contender as it isn't offered in that category. So which ragtop from what is being offered by all manufacturers would you select?

I was seriously considering the Audi R8 in AWD, but I couldn’t bring myself to part with that much cash for a fun car using such dated technology. Also, I wasn’t interested in financing at current rates. I ended up keeping my M240i as a DD and settled on a used 2022 C8 Corvette with 9k miles. The vette I bought is also RWD, but with the engine sitting on the back wheels, and given the width of the rear tires, I am more comfortable with the RWD configuration even with an engine pushing 500hp at the crank. The vette also comes with a hard top convertible and fits a bag of golf clubs in the rear trunk (I realize the Z4 can carry clubs and the bag if they are first separated), both big pluses for me. The final piece that fell into place is that corvettes have been plummeting in value over the past several months, an event that was bound to happen and which I was willing to wait for. I paid about $20k less for the car than I might have a year ago. Conversely, none of the BMW dealers around me were willing to talk about anything less than MSRP at the time I was in the market. When I drive it my a$$ end is still all over the place with my ham fisted driving, but it hooks up pretty quickly and with little drama, so I’m happy with the final decision.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bill

I was seriously considering the Audi R8 in AWD, but I couldn’t bring myself to part with that much cash for a fun car using such dated technology. Also, I wasn’t interested in financing at current rates. I ended up keeping my M240i as a DD and settled on a used 2022 C8 Corvette with 9k miles. The vette I bought is also RWD, but with the engine sitting on the back wheels, and given the width of the rear tires, I am more comfortable with the RWD configuration even with an engine pushing 500hp at the crank. The vette also comes with a hard top convertible and fits a bag of golf clubs in the rear trunk (I realize the Z4 can carry clubs and the bag if they are first separated), both big pluses for me. The final piece that fell into place is that corvettes have been plummeting in value over the past several months, an event that was bound to happen and which I was willing to wait for. I paid about $20k less for the car than I might have a year ago. Conversely, none of the BMW dealers around me were willing to talk about anything less than MSRP at the time I was in the market. When I drive it my a$$ end is still all over the place with my ham fisted driving, but it hooks up pretty quickly and with little drama, so I’m happy with the final decision.

Vettes have become a decent deal again - prices coming down while others have continued to raise prices. Good call

[BEAR-AvHistory-2]

Originally Posted by MisanoblueZ4

Heard the S58 is a little easier to launch due to the power/tq moved up in the rev range.

Hard to say. The two cars are quite different but once you get used to them you are working on muscle memory. The acceleration & shifts hit a lot harder with the S58. Think BMW did a lot of work to smooth the package out.

In a side by side run the S58 is gone within a second of launch. 60ft times are mid to low 1 second range with the S58. The race is over before you cross the intersection.

Car & Driver did a list "quickest cars we tested this year 2022" year I got my M4C. List covers 1 to 9 in less than a second.

#9-2022 Porsche 911 Targa 4 GTS: 2.9 Seconds to 60 MPH
#8-2021 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Coupe with Z51 Package: 2.9 Seconds to 60 MPH
#7-2022 Acura NSX Type S: 2.9 Seconds to 60 MPH
#6-2022 Porsche 911 GT3 Touring: 2.8 Seconds to 60 MPH
#5-2022 Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS: 2.8 Seconds to 60 MPH
#4-2022 BMW M4 Competition xDrive Coupe: 2.8 Seconds to 60 MPH
#3-2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Convertible: 2.7 Seconds to 60 MPH
#2-2022 Lucid Air Dream Performance: 2.6 Seconds to 60 MPH
#1-2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S with Lightweight Package: 2.1 Seconds to 60 MPH

[Mr. Bill]

Sick numbers.

[RigaTony1982]

Yeah, what’s even more impressive is the M4 is the cheapest car on that list besides maybe the Corvette.

[BEAR-AvHistory-2]

I think the amazing thing is that less than a second covers all 9 cars. In real life on any given day anyone could win. Reaction time would be a big deal running these cars at the strip.

Cliff notes. In my case the M4 is quicker with LC while the Z4 gets its best time without it. Both in RWD the Z4 is quicker out of the hole but gets run down by the horsepower once the M4 gains some traction.

Takes more finesse to launch the M4 than my ancient body has left so its LC for me. Would have loved to have this thing 40 years ago when I still had some quick reflexes.

The other amazing thing is how many Porsche's made the cut. They basically own the list. With the Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS time it would be my pick of the Porsche litter.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory-2

Cliff notes. In my case the M4 is quicker with LC while the Z4 gets its best time without it.

The other amazing thing is how many Porsche's made the cut. They basically own the list. With the Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS time it would be my pick of the Porsche litter.

Porsche owns LC (the best). But who really uses it?
And 0-100 times are my preference because that 70-100 speed really counts for something

I never did LC on the Z4. Wonder how good it is.

[BEAR-AvHistory-2]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Porsche owns LC (the best). But who really uses it?
And 0-100 times are my preference because that 70-100 speed really counts for something

I never did LC on the Z4. Wonder how good it is.

Only took a test drive in a Porsche LC. Was comparing with a 6MT Boxster-S. Got the 6MT Boxster. One before that a Carrera wait for it 4S (AWD)was a 7MT. My first AWD car. Had trucks & Jeeps but never a car before.

Found the Z4 off the line in LC is not as quick as just using your foot to manage the power. Quite different than the LC in the M4C which hits & goes. I cannot really manage the power as well as the computer.

One thing I can't do with the M4C that I would like is soften the throttle pedal input the way I have programed the Cobras throttle. Makes control on the launch much easier.

As for 0-100 not something usually done in the US on the street in daytime.

My daughter's beat down of the C8 StingRay Z51 with the M4C done in Mexico hit 123. How short the distance of the run was fooled me into thinking she was doing around 80-85 till I looked over & saw the speedo.

Suggested the fish was dead & she might want to test the brakes.

Was a good event the Stingray driver gave her a thumbs up instead of a looser flyby & followed up till his turnoff.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory-2

As for 0-100 not something usually done in the US on the street in daytime.

On ramps and 4 lane highways with lights and a 70 mph limit. I beat a Tesla model 3 perf in my comp x from behind (right turn) after we hit 65. I had one of those cars, so I know how fast it is to 65 mph. I beat a c8 in that car once - no one believes me, but it happened. The guy wasn’t using LC though.

I tried launch control several times in my M3 comp x. Once hit 60 in 3.1s. It’s a wild experience! Traction off, manual shift mode, hard on the brake, floor it until the flag shows up and go. The car does the shifting even though it’s in manual shift mode. The tires have to be the right temp range and on the right surface to nail it.

[BEAR-AvHistory-2]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

On ramps and 4 lane highways with lights and a 70 mph limit. I beat a Tesla model 3 perf in my comp x from behind (right turn) after we hit 65. I had one of those cars, so I know how fast it is to 65 mph. I beat a c8 in that car once - no one believes me, but it happened. The guy wasn’t using LC though.

I tried launch control several times in my M3 comp x. Once hit 60 in 3.1s. It’s a wild experience! Traction off, manual shift mode, hard on the brake, floor it until the flag shows up and go. The car does the shifting even though it’s in manual shift mode. The tires have to be the right temp range and on the right surface to nail it.

Agree. Think when asked & I say how quick the car is they think I'm full of male bovine fodder byproducts. . You can put down a new Z06 with just quicker reflexes.

Think thats why the guy in the Vette challenged my daughter. I could see him working is way through traffic to catch her at a light.

Sees this nice middle aged lady driving a car she has no clue how to drive. Low hanging fruit.

Problem was she could recite the lifter settings & firing order of a Chevy when she was 8. Number of HPDS along with BMW PCD & PDS, not counting track days & AutoX.

Its you never know so never underestimate.

BTW 3.1 is a very good street number. You need a prepared surface to match C&D numbers also perfect weather. They run all their raw numbers through an algorithm to normalize the results so they can be compared with each other.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory-2

Problem was she could recite the lifter settings & firing order of a Chevy when she was 8. Number of HPDS along with BMW PCD & PDS, not counting track days & AutoX.

Its you never know so never underestimate.

BTW 3.1 is a very good street number. You need a prepared surface to match C&D numbers also perfect weather. They run all their raw numbers through an algorithm to normalize the results so they can be compared with each other.

I can tell you're proud of her!

The 3.1s run was slightly downhill, I'm convinced. The other runs were 3.2s-3.3s.

[Balr14]

The Z4 M40i would be a solid 11 second quarter mile car with a different turbo. The twin scroll turbo is a serious limiting factor. It doesn't have enough capacity at high rpm. The internal intercooler doesn't help, either. That's the price you pay for no lag. Porsche owns that quickest car list because of their variable vane turbos.