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      10-30-2020, 08:36 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by WXdrivefun View Post
So the new BMW G80 and G82 (M3/M4) is set to officially be released very soon. Anyone upgrading to the new M3/M4?

On the other hand, would you consider holding off for a few years until the new G87 M2?

Just curious to hear what current M2 owners thoughts, comments, and opinions!
Always wait for LCI unless you got tons of cash flow. Also no, unless they bring the wagon to the states, and they won't.
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      10-30-2020, 08:56 PM   #24
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Well your very fortunate that you will not be banned for your honesty
I do appreciate it regardless
And I agree
Off-topic: AFAIK I never received a warning, infraction, section restriction or ban.
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      10-31-2020, 06:49 PM   #25
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It's evident BMW is trending bigger, heavier, more power, and - to put it kindly - bolder design in all their models in full force. When time comes to sell my M2, it will not be another BMW to take its place. Instead it will probably be something that is smaller, lighter, and has a great manual gearbox, even if meant having less power. In other words, a complete 180 from where BMW is heading.

Some say the OG M2 is not a true ///M car. Well, to me, modern ///M represents Monetization and Mass Appeal. So in that sense, I am glad the OG M2 is not a true ///M car.
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      10-31-2020, 07:06 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RedCarrot View Post
It's evident BMW is trending bigger, heavier, more power, and - to put it kindly - bolder design in all their models in full force. When time comes to sell my M2, it will not be another BMW to take its place. Instead it will probably be something that is smaller, lighter, and has a great manual gearbox, even if meant having less power. In other words, a complete 180 from where BMW is heading.

Some say the OG M2 is not a true ///M car. Well, to me, modern ///M represents Monetization and Mass Appeal. So in that sense, I am glad the OG M2 is not a true ///M car.
On point RC- couldn’t agree more.
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      11-01-2020, 01:19 AM   #27
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Food: there are dishes you (instantly) like and dishes you (instantly) dislike, no matter how hard the kitchen did its best and no matter how much the restaurant keeps repeating how great the dishes are and that "you will start to like it" and that "it's better when it's right in front of you and when you taste it".

Personally I don't like the G80 M3 / G82 M4 dish. Can't see myself ordering it. At best, full black to obscure a little some questionable design choices. But still: too big, too bloated and design-wise too polarizing for my taste. Trying too hard to change for the sake of change, as if it's like an e-mail written in capital letters only (those get me a cringy feeling and "chill, brother/sister" thoughts).

Forcing customers out of their familiar comfort zone: remember Microsoft radically redesigning its Windows user interface with Windows 8 (including the 'sacrilege' of deleting the iconic 'start menu') or Porsche going 4-cyl only with lawnmower sounds on its 718 Cayman: many dissatisfied/disgruntled existing and potential customers + fixing this with a later iteration. Sometimes too much is too much.

And regarding design: car manufacturers should never forget 'the family factor': show pictures to your significant other or kids and ask for their opinion to test the waters. I also did that with the G80 M3 / G82 M4 and the response was outright negative. Quite a difference compared to their reaction to pictures of an F87 M2 or F87 M2 Competition.
100%

We don't see Patek or Rolex making Apple iPhone watches or Casio G-Shock watches ...why? Because those type of watches are not in line with the ethos of Rolex and Patek.

I never thought I will see the day where a high spec M3/M4 will have AWD, be heavier than a Nissan R35 GTR and equipped with an AT. None of those attributes looks appealing to me as I would then rather buy a R35 GTR which is much more capable, have lots more factory (Nismo) and aftermarket support on performance mods.

I hope they can get the G87 M2 right...really hope so

BMW executives. Real M is about simplicity...less is more.
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      11-01-2020, 06:13 AM   #28
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About the thread title: sometimes an 'upgrade' can be perceived as a 'downgrade', especially when a manufacturer tinkered in a way you personally dislike, with aspects that matter to you, despite improvements of several other aspects.

Most people usually like their comfort zones, points of reference, familiar quirks ('iconic' aspects). It's about connection. Hence the preference for incremental 'upgrade' changes, rather than for radical 'upgrade' changes (except if the existing iteration was conceptually not OK and definitely required a change for the better: an overhaul or redesign).

M3 (nowadays M3/M4) is the flagship of BMW M, the pet of the M class, the pars pro toto. Needless to say that the all-new G80 M3 / G82 M4 got, and keeps getting, polarizing reactions. BMW seems to be well-aware of that. BMW M must have known that some of its latest choices risked to stir emotions amongst its fanbase, but likely thought that those would cool down as time goes by.

Admittedly, my first reaction to the new M3/M4 was a big sigh. But that's perfectly normal: it's a new generation of the car, not an LCI (Life Cycle Impulse version). However, what's less normal is the fact that, as time goes by, also my second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. reaction was a big sigh. And then, in my book, there's a problem: my current mindset is that I cannot see myself buying that car if, for some reason, I'd consider replacing my M2C (quod non).
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      11-01-2020, 08:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
About the thread title: sometimes an 'upgrade' can be perceived as a 'downgrade', especially when a manufacturer tinkered in a way you personally dislike, with aspects that matter to you, despite improvements of several other aspects.

Most people usually like their comfort zones, points of reference, familiar quirks ('iconic' aspects). It's about connection. Hence the preference for incremental 'upgrade' changes, rather than for radical 'upgrade' changes (except if the existing iteration was conceptually not OK and definitely required a change for the better: an overhaul or redesign).

M3 (nowadays M3/M4) is the flagship of BMW M, the pet of the M class, the pars pro toto. Needless to say that the all-new G80 M3 / G82 M4 got, and keeps getting, polarizing reactions. BMW seems to be well-aware of that. BMW M must have known that some of its latest choices risked to stir emotions amongst its fanbase, but likely thought that those would cool down as time goes by.

Admittedly, my first reaction to the new M3/M4 was a big sigh. But that's perfectly normal: it's a new generation of the car, not an LCI (Life Cycle Impulse version). However, what's less normal is the fact that, as time goes by, also my second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. reaction was a big sigh. And then, in my book, there's a problem: my current mindset is that I cannot see myself buying that car if, for some reason, I'd consider replacing my M2C (quod non).
Too true. It just keeps looking worse and worse.

Name:  20201031_001128.jpg
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      11-01-2020, 09:17 AM   #30
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At this point, I can't imagine ever getting rid of my M2C. It's the perfect recipe for me. Especially not for an M3/M4 with that design. I am eager to see how M2 evolves, but unless it's groundbreaking in some way, I'll stick with my M2C.
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      11-01-2020, 09:28 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by M2PDX View Post
Too true. It just keeps looking worse and worse.
Attachment 2450898
Wait, to come to the M3/M4's defence: 'fish-eye' pictures can be unflattering:
Name:  Cat_Fisheye.jpg
Views: 709
Size:  124.2 KB

From a distance the proportions are closer to reality:


Not gonna crack the joke that from a significant distance most things usually look better. Oops, just did that.
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      11-01-2020, 11:13 AM   #32
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Went in yesterday for routine service and saw new 4 series in showroom. Made me want to fly to Germany and punch someone in the face. And NO, it doesn't look better in person
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      11-01-2020, 12:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
About the thread title: sometimes an 'upgrade' can be perceived as a 'downgrade', especially when a manufacturer tinkered in a way you personally dislike, with aspects that matter to you, despite improvements of several other aspects.

Most people usually like their comfort zones, points of reference, familiar quirks ('iconic' aspects). It's about connection. Hence the preference for incremental 'upgrade' changes, rather than for radical 'upgrade' changes (except if the existing iteration was conceptually not OK and definitely required a change for the better: an overhaul or redesign).

M3 (nowadays M3/M4) is the flagship of BMW M, the pet of the M class, the pars pro toto. Needless to say that the all-new G80 M3 / G82 M4 got, and keeps getting, polarizing reactions. BMW seems to be well-aware of that. BMW M must have known that some of its latest choices risked to stir emotions amongst its fanbase, but likely thought that those would cool down as time goes by.

Admittedly, my first reaction to the new M3/M4 was a big sigh. But that's perfectly normal: it's a new generation of the car, not an LCI (Life Cycle Impulse version). However, what's less normal is the fact that, as time goes by, also my second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. reaction was a big sigh. And then, in my book, there's a problem: my current mindset is that I cannot see myself buying that car if, for some reason, I'd consider replacing my M2C (quod non).


Damn dude, must every post you make be so thoughtful, eloquently written, and enjoyable to read?
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      11-01-2020, 12:13 PM   #34
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In terms of aesthetics, personally, I think the only unappealing aspect of the G8x is its grill which I think could be fixed by painting the lower slats in body work colors to make it seems like the grill was only the upper portion (reflecting a more conservative nostril like the E's and F's had). So realistically, the ugliness of the car, to me, is all in the bumper.

When the E9x was on its way out and the F8x was on its way in I remember a lot of frustration over its : weight, steering, exhaust note, and forced induction. The steering was improved drastically in later firmware, the forced induction turned out to not be that bad of a thing, but it will always be fat and sound bad.

I'm going to reserve final judgement until the LCI but so far it's not looking good at all for the G80.
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      11-01-2020, 12:14 PM   #35
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Some M2 owners are like me—we could have bought an M4 but it felt too big for our taste. If you're one of those people then most likely you'll be keeping the M2. Your most likely upgrade path at this point is a Porsche.

Now, if you bought an M2 because it's the M car you can afford, then you might be looking at the next-gen M3/M4.
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      11-01-2020, 12:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
I hope they can get the G87 M2 right...really hope so
BMW executives. Real M is about simplicity...less is more.
Paging BMW M execs out there: two pertinent Colin Chapman quotes:
  • "Simplify, then add lightness."
  • "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
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      11-01-2020, 01:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXdrivefun View Post
So the new BMW G80 and G82 (M3/M4) is set to officially be released very soon. Anyone upgrading to the new M3/M4?

On the other hand, would you consider holding off for a few years until the new G87 M2?

Just curious to hear what current M2 owners thoughts, comments, and opinions!
G80 doesn't appeal to me. Too big, too heavy, and don't like styling. On the other hand, there is a good chance the G87 will. I suspect the G87 will come with CF roof, adaptive suspension, and the new S58 engine. In other words, I think it will have a lot of what the M2cs has from a content perspective and it will be built on the new chassis. And if the steering is improved on top of that - every single person saying BMW has lost its way will be rushing out to buy one....myself included. G87 will also probably be the last ICE M2

If BMW satisfies the legacy enthusiasts with the G87, and brings new customers to the brand with the G80, what's not to like?

If they screw up the G87, well....
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      11-01-2020, 03:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
G80 doesn't appeal to me. Too big, too heavy, and don't like styling. On the other hand, there is a good chance the G87 will. I suspect the G87 will come with CF roof, adaptive suspension, and the new S58 engine. In other words, I think it will have a lot of what the M2cs has from a content perspective and it will be built on the new chassis. And if the steering is improved on top of that - every single person saying BMW has lost its way will be rushing out to buy one....myself included. G87 will also probably be the last ICE M2

If BMW satisfies the legacy enthusiasts with the G87, and brings new customers to the brand with the G80, what's not to like?

If they screw up the G87, well....
Doubt it will come with a CF roof, but it may come with adaptive suspension as that was a big complaint from many. It's already been confirmed it's coming with a detuned S58. If we base it off the G80/2 than it going to weigh more, a lot more. It'll no longer offer a DCT, but there will be a MT. It also might get a face only a BMW designer could love. I was looking forward to the G87 since it's based off the CLAR platform, but after seeing the G80/2 I've lost a lot of faith in the brand. They can still surprise us, but they seem to find a way to F things up more than make them better.
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      11-01-2020, 04:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Doubt it will come with a CF roof, but it may come with adaptive suspension as that was a big complaint from many. It's already been confirmed it's coming with a detuned S58. If we base it off the G80/2 than it going to weigh more, a lot more. It'll no longer offer a DCT, but there will be a MT. It also might get a face only a BMW designer could love. I was looking forward to the G87 since it's based off the CLAR platform, but after seeing the G80/2 I've lost a lot of faith in the brand. They can still surprise us, but they seem to find a way to F things up more than make them better.
You mean to "G" things up
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      11-01-2020, 05:29 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Doubt it will come with a CF roof, but it may come with adaptive suspension as that was a big complaint from many. It's already been confirmed it's coming with a detuned S58. If we base it off the G80/2 than it going to weigh more, a lot more. It'll no longer offer a DCT, but there will be a MT. It also might get a face only a BMW designer could love. I was looking forward to the G87 since it's based off the CLAR platform, but after seeing the G80/2 I've lost a lot of faith in the brand. They can still surprise us, but they seem to find a way to F things up more than make them better.
Would be a shame if it doesn't. Combination of CLAR platform, carbon roof, and heavy M2c wheels & brakes provides some weight opportunity. Wonder what the weight difference is between S55 and S58?

I'm buying an M2c now and will checkout an LCI competition G87 in 5 years or so when in debuts.
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      11-01-2020, 07:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Doubt it will come with a CF roof, but it may come with adaptive suspension as that was a big complaint from many. It's already been confirmed it's coming with a detuned S58. If we base it off the G80/2 than it going to weigh more, a lot more. It'll no longer offer a DCT, but there will be a MT. It also might get a face only a BMW designer could love. I was looking forward to the G87 since it's based off the CLAR platform, but after seeing the G80/2 I've lost a lot of faith in the brand. They can still surprise us, but they seem to find a way to F things up more than make them better.
The G42 2er serves as basis for BMW M to create the G87 M2.

Here's a pre-production G42 2er that leaked earlier this year (look closer: it features an ///M logo on the front bumper and a weird boot badge):

(source: here)

In black:


(source: here)

Renders:



(source: here)



Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
I'm buying an M2c now and will checkout an LCI competition G87 in 5 years or so when in debuts.
Then you'll get something like this now (my F87 M2C):



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      11-01-2020, 08:25 PM   #42
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I saw those same pics and honestly, it don't look good. The back looks out of proportion, they did away with the iconic quad exhaust, the front lights look like an inverted version of the 'mascara' lights from the e60 years.

I traded my 2017 m2 for a 2021 m2c yesterday. The f87 is one of the most beautiful bmws ever made - they set the bar too high.
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      11-01-2020, 09:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
I'm buying an M2c now and will checkout an LCI competition G87 in 5 years or so when in debuts.
Then you'll get something like this now (my F87 M2C):
Artemis, your F87 is BAD A$$. Can't wait to get me one. Now I need to decide what color...the car looks great in so many colors -including black. I'm definitely getting 763s
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      11-02-2020, 03:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
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The G42 2er serves as basis for BMW M to create the G87 M2.

Here's a pre-production G42 2er that leaked earlier this year (look closer: it features an ///M logo on the front bumper and a weird boot badge):
That front badge makes me sick, it looks like they are really whoring out the M badging on non-M cars even more than ever. The rear badge, if I were to guess, looks like it might say ///M240i. I get what you're saying regrading design carry over, but BMW has shown us when they departed from the more traditional kidney grille of the G20 for the new huge grille of the G22 that there is no precedent anymore. The M3/4 are also examples of this.

What really bothers me is that they're are incorporating these new fugly grilles for the Chinese market. I get it, they are a business and need to be profitable. But, they shouldn't impose this on all markets, they are not the same. Make one bumper for the Chinese market with huge ugly grilles and another for all other markets. I don't understand why they can't do that. They already make different style bumpers for each of the model lines, such as the bumper of the 330i and M340i.
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