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      03-17-2016, 09:42 AM   #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doane2u View Post
No, I'm afraid you still don't get it, that last part is wrong... they aren't paying their fair share of taxes, that's the problem. There is very little left of the progressive income tax system we used to have; it's full of loop holes now that only the most wealthy or corporations can take advantage of. Most of them in the ultra high income brackets are paying very little or nothing. The tax burden has been dumped on the lower and upper middle class wage earners.
Define "fair share". If you look at your tax returns from years past and looked at your effective rate, you'll notice it's likely much lower than your marginal tax rate.
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      03-17-2016, 10:14 AM   #1212
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Originally Posted by BEMR View Post
I don't like the word WETBACK actually it's similar to calling a black man a N...

Those words are very offensive these days and amazing that our own government would allow the use back then in an open government operation.
I whole heartedly agree with you, and maybe when you bring that operation up you could give it a bit more respect or something. Just throwing it in, then saying it worked it is bit disrespectful to the people involved.
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      03-17-2016, 10:15 AM   #1213
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Shake it up.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/world/...ump/index.html

The smear campaign against trump is going to be one for the ages and like it or hate it, we are witnessing something very unique.
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      03-17-2016, 10:18 AM   #1214
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Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
I whole heartedly agree with you, and maybe when you bring that operation up you could give it a bit more respect or something. Just throwing it in, then saying it worked it is bit disrespectful to the people involved.
Born and raised Texan and I haven't heard that word used in 30 years and I was very close to the construction industry too.
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      03-17-2016, 10:20 AM   #1215
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Shake it up.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/world/...ump/index.html

The smear campaign against trump is going to be one for the ages and like it or hate it, we are witnessing something very unique.
I wouldn't call that a smear campaign. That is the opinion of the Chinese state newspaper. Maybe this is the rest of the world laughing at us, have you considered that.
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      03-17-2016, 10:30 AM   #1216
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I wouldn't call that a smear campaign. That is the opinion of the Chinese state newspaper. Maybe this is the rest of the world laughing at us, have you considered that.
They are, but they shouldn't be so quick to throw rocks from a glass house.
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      03-17-2016, 10:35 AM   #1217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doane2u
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I was looking at the same source. Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, if you add together the percentage of audits in the under $50k brackets, it totals 64.23% of all audits (1.83%, 39.08 %, 23.32%). Did I miss something?
Uhh.. yeah, you missed a lot .. now I see what you are having problems with grasping situations, you can't actually read things with out preconceived ideas.

In this case you are adding up the percentages of total returns, not the total of audited returns, that you were initially complaining about when you said,

"Actually, 2/3 of IRS audits are done to people making less than $50k/yr. amazing they hassle the little guys." post #1200 above


$1 – $50k 62% of returns 1.47% audited

50k -1 million 35.5% of returns 7.57% audited

1 million to +10 Mill .27% of returns and 32.96 audited.

You may also notice the huge income disparity here, and this doesn't actually show the non disclosed, hidden accounts set up by corporations, and the extreme rich class who get off with paying little or no taxes at all... at the rest of our expense, in higher taxes. Meanwhile, many politicians blame government completely for the lack of funding while ignoring the fact that the progressive tax system is almost non progressive now.

And Trump is going to fix that... OMG it's scary that people can be so naive.. it's like putting in a fox to guard the chicken coop.
You still have to multiply but you're right.
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      03-17-2016, 10:36 AM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Shake it up.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/world/...ump/index.html

The smear campaign against trump is going to be one for the ages and like it or hate it, we are witnessing something very unique.
Eh....smear campaign implies baseless accusations in an effort to discredit the target.

Having a legitimate dislike for Trump based on what he has said is not equal to a smear campaign.
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      03-17-2016, 10:42 AM   #1219
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Define "fair share". If you look at your tax returns from years past and looked at your effective rate, you'll notice it's likely much lower than your marginal tax rate.
Right on.

I've learned over the years that when many folks are whining about their "heavy" tax burden, they rarely quote their effective tax rate. They like to quote something like 25%, 30%, etc., accompanied by much groaning and finger pointing at Washington, yet their effective tax is almost always less. Often far less.

It's almost as if they really don't want you to know that. When you're mad at the government, paint the worst possible picture.
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      03-17-2016, 11:39 AM   #1220
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Eh....smear campaign implies baseless accusations in an effort to discredit the target.

Having a legitimate dislike for Trump based on what he has said is not equal to a smear campaign.
You guys are right. I hurried a post as to not be late.
Kitchen sink media?
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      03-17-2016, 01:18 PM   #1221
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Originally Posted by other_evolved
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
It's very simple: close the tax loophole, and punish employers who hire illegals. Make the federal e-Verify system mandatory. Removing their jobs will cause a wholesale exodus back to Mexico. Deport the ones who are left, just like Eisenhower deported 2M of them is 1953.
I'm not opposed to enforcing the laws that are already on the books. I would add a guest worker program and modify the welfare/state benefit rules for those guest workers.


Rounding up people, ala Operation Wetback, is not something anyone should be on board with, in my opinion.
I'm curious - why not round them up? They are breaking our laws - what else would you do?
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      03-17-2016, 01:54 PM   #1222
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I'm curious - why not round them up? They are breaking our laws - what else would you do?
Isn't that what we're doing now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...79a_story.html

Hell some people around here I read on local news aren't sending their kids to school because of these raids (clearly those people are illegal immigrants).
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      03-17-2016, 01:56 PM   #1223
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post

Rounding up people, ala Operation Wetback, is not something anyone should be on board with, in my opinion.
Hmmm, while I wouldn't have used the disparaging wording, what's wrong with strictly enforcing our immigration laws? Every other country does it. I can't just go to Brazil and park my ass there indefinitely. I can't just roll into Canada either. Oh, and do you think Mexico allows its Southern neighbors to cross the borders and chill? Nope! That doesn't happen either.
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      03-17-2016, 04:45 PM   #1224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I'm curious - why not round them up? They are breaking our laws - what else would you do?
Isn't that what we're doing now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...79a_story.html

Hell some people around here I read on local news aren't sending their kids to school because of these raids (clearly those people are illegal immigrants).
"In all, 121 mothers and children were detained..."

121 out of "tens of thousands" just last month? Something isn't right about this - sounds like a puff piece to make it look like Obama is getting tough on immigration. Which is bullshit, of course.
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      03-17-2016, 06:51 PM   #1225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEMR View Post
I don't like the word WETBACK actually it's similar to calling a black man a N...

Those words are very offensive these days and amazing that our own government would allow the use back then in an open government operation.
I whole heartedly agree with you, and maybe when you bring that operation up you could give it a bit more respect or something. Just throwing it in, then saying it worked it is bit disrespectful to the people involved.
Dude could NOT of disagree with you more!! Actually sad to hear people like YOU that want to destroy and re write American History, very sad. Its the politically correct fucked up part of society today that is excelling Trump in the first place, we are so fucking tired like the Confederate Flag, Merry Christmas, etc being taken away from us, ITS American History, right or wrong its History whether your offended or not, tuff fucking shit!
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      03-17-2016, 07:04 PM   #1226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by doane2u
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I did read the chart wrong - thanks for catching that, and thanks for the correction. Here I was thinking that the IRS was trampling on the lower income folks, when in reality it seems that the higher incomes are audited far more frequently? I guess since the top 10% of earners pay 68+% of all federal income taxes it makes sense that the IRS would focus their efforts there.
No, I'm afraid you still don't get it, that last part is wrong... they aren't paying their fair share of taxes, that's the problem. There is very little left of the progressive income tax system we used to have; it's full of loop holes now that only the most wealthy or corporations can take advantage of. Most of them in the ultra high income brackets are paying very little or nothing. The tax burden has been dumped on the lower and upper middle class wage earners.
1. What would be "their fair share?" Who gets to decide what's "fair?" Is it fair that they pay the vast majority of the tax bill, while the bottom 50% pays nothing, or receives money?

2. What are these loopholes?
Awaiting responses.
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      03-17-2016, 07:18 PM   #1227
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Fact: 80% of all tax collected by the US Treasury every year is collected by Americans MAKING more than 200,000 a year, all the rest is collect by those making between 25 and 200g a year! BTW

Don't think the rich don't pay!
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      03-17-2016, 07:45 PM   #1228
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If a third of us had the balls this man has..............




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      03-17-2016, 07:56 PM   #1229
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      03-17-2016, 08:34 PM   #1230
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Hmmm, while I wouldn't have used the disparaging wording, what's wrong with strictly enforcing our immigration laws? Every other country does it. I can't just go to Brazil and park my ass there indefinitely. I can't just roll into Canada either. Oh, and do you think Mexico allows its Southern neighbors to cross the borders and chill? Nope! That doesn't happen either.
You're not addressing the point that I made. There are much more cost effective methods of controlling illegal immigration. Going on a multi-billion dollar round up would be as effective as Operation Wetback.

Think of it this way....you have a mouse problem in your home. You leave all of your food out on the counter, and the mice dig that. All you do to solve the issue is take the mice outside, and leave them be. Obviously they are going to come back in an eat the food. So, what are your options? The most obvious, cost effective one would be to remove the food.

The analogy doesn't work perfectly, but you should get the point. The non-boondoggle solutions have already been mentioned. The fact is that we need the migrant labor. Institute a temporary worker program, tax them, enforce laws already on the books, etc. and the problem of illegal immigration will drop. We will never get rid of it completely, but it can be reduced.
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      03-17-2016, 08:38 PM   #1231
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Originally Posted by other_evolved View Post
You're not addressing the point that I made. There are much more cost effective methods of controlling illegal immigration. Going on a multi-billion dollar round up would be as effective as Operation Wetback.

Think of it this way....you have a mouse problem in your home. You leave all of your food out on the counter, and the mice dig that. All you do to solve the issue is take the mice outside, and leave them be. Obviously they are going to come back in an eat the food. So, what are your options? The most obvious, cost effective one would be to remove the food.

The analogy doesn't work perfectly, but you should get the point. The non-boondoggle solutions have already been mentioned. The fact is that we need the migrant labor. Institute a temporary worker program, tax them, enforce laws already on the books, etc. and the problem of illegal immigration will drop. We will never get rid of it completely, but it can be reduced.
I realize that a round-up isn't cost effective nor realistic, nor do we have the resources to effectively accomplish such a feat if we tried. I also agree that there are better workarounds, but the problem is that the government doesn't seriously enforce the immigration laws (..and instead keeps on giving benefits to non-citizens), and that is the crux of the issue. I just want the government to clean up the mess.
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      03-17-2016, 10:09 PM   #1232
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Hmmm, while I wouldn't have used the disparaging wording, what's wrong with strictly enforcing our immigration laws? Every other country does it. I can't just go to Brazil and park my ass there indefinitely. I can't just roll into Canada either. Oh, and do you think Mexico allows its Southern neighbors to cross the borders and chill? Nope! That doesn't happen either.
You're not addressing the point that I made. There are much more cost effective methods of controlling illegal immigration. Going on a multi-billion dollar round up would be as effective as Operation Wetback.

Think of it this way....you have a mouse problem in your home. You leave all of your food out on the counter, and the mice dig that. All you do to solve the issue is take the mice outside, and leave them be. Obviously they are going to come back in an eat the food. So, what are your options? The most obvious, cost effective one would be to remove the food.

The analogy doesn't work perfectly, but you should get the point. The non-boondoggle solutions have already been mentioned. The fact is that we need the migrant labor. Institute a temporary worker program, tax them, enforce laws already on the books, etc. and the problem of illegal immigration will drop. We will never get rid of it completely, but it can be reduced.
I disagree - I don't believe we need the migrant labor. If we had a guest worker program, we still would bear the social costs of this workforce, and we would pay for their children to be born here, and on and on. We would be creating and exploiting an under class. And Americans on welfare would not have better job prospects.

If we eliminate jobs for illegals, and punish employers who employ them, the illegals would have no job prospects. Employers (the evil corporate types) would be forced to pay a decent wage, and compete for labor - why is this not a democrat position?

I heard an estimate of $2,500 per illegal, as a cost to round up and deport them. While it sounds expensive, it's far less than we average per year on their social benefits.
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