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View Poll Results: Which would you rather have at your place of work
All weapons are banned - no one has any 30 29.70%
Private security unarmed - non lethal only 4 3.96%
Private security armed - firearms 20 19.80%
weapons allowed by all employees (cannot say who gets them or does not get them) 11 10.89%
weapons allowed by employees with certification class 36 35.64%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-26-2016, 11:24 AM   #199
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This whole thing is easy. A pissed off coworker or random idiot with a gun comes into your office and starts blowing your coworkers away. Do you want to
1 hide under your desk
2 talk to him
3 offer him a fruit cake
4 calm the cops and watch 20 people die while you wait
5 hope security arrives faster than the cops and that they have a gun
6 defend yourself with a firearm and save yourself and many other lives...

Hmmmmmm
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      01-28-2016, 06:52 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
You're shitting me, right?

The whole European feudal system revolved around privileges and power being kept with the nobility and the serfs/commoners being controlled and disenfranchised.

Weapons controls/regulation did in fact exist throughout most of Europe in the sense that people were expected to own weapons in accordance with their social status (ie a serf would be expected to have a bow and maybe a knife, not a well-made sword or armor). What's more, the only people would could actually afford good quality weapons and armor were the nobility and the people in their service (men-at-arms, squires, yeoman).

The feudal levies which you refer to (serfs/commoners called up to service) were a part of the medieval army, but they were treated more like cannon fodder than an actual fighting unit. The knights, men-at-arms, mercenaries, professional archers were the real force behind any medieval army. Feudal levies were called up on as-needed basis, were not well trained, nor well-equipped.


And when a campaign/war was done, they were sent back to their farms/homes minus whatever weapons/armor their lord had lent them....they were never expected to be a professional or even citizen-soldier fighting force for 2 main reasons:
1) The nobility didn't want to have to pay for their upkeep and training.
2) The nobility didn't want to allow them access to good quality weapons/armor for fear of revolt (which was a common occurrence back then).

The Whole European feudal system was all about controlling the lower classes, including access to weapons. You should probably go read some books by some of the prominent medieval historians if you think otherwise.
I as referring to English system.

Not the European kingdoms which totally differed throughout Europe at the time and greatly depended on the period you look at.

The English system was based on the Commission of Array, basically a Plantagenet adoption of previous English Saxon system.

Pretty much county militia / eventually yeomanry.

Other than the Peasants revolt, not that many revolts by peasants that were not just small scale stuff.

By around 1400 (Post Black Death) serfdom was pretty much over in England, you can't really have them when half your population are dead and you really need people to work the land.

Also unlike 'France' and rest of European mainland England was covered by Common Law.

Yes the Normans enforced serfdom on the Saxons and brought their own serfs over.

There was not as such a professional archer, everyone was by law expected to be an archer, made in to law 1252.

This included serfs, as chances are if you were not a serf you could afford a sword.

http://www.ryelongbowmen.org/history-of-the-longbow/

The archers at Crecy were not a professional army, just men who owed fealty to a lord of some manor or sheriff etc.

Anyhow, wildly OT lol.
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      01-28-2016, 09:56 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
This whole thing is easy. A pissed off coworker or random idiot with a gun comes into your office and starts blowing your coworkers away. Do you want to
1 hide under your desk
2 talk to him
3 offer him a fruit cake
4 calm the cops and watch 20 people die while you wait
5 hope security arrives faster than the cops and that they have a gun
6 defend yourself with a firearm and save yourself and many other lives...

Hmmmmmm

I actually have a functional trebuchet at my desk and an assortment of screws and steel and aluminum counterweights & brackets. Worst case, I throw some BB2590's at them.
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      01-28-2016, 10:07 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosstones View Post
I actually have a functional trebuchet at my desk and an assortment of screws and steel and aluminum counterweights & brackets. Worst case, I throw some BB2590's at them.
That's a start.
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      01-29-2016, 02:52 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
I as referring to English system.

Not the European kingdoms which totally differed throughout Europe at the time and greatly depended on the period you look at.

The English system was based on the Commission of Array, basically a Plantagenet adoption of previous English Saxon system.

Pretty much county militia / eventually yeomanry.

Other than the Peasants revolt, not that many revolts by peasants that were not just small scale stuff.

By around 1400 (Post Black Death) serfdom was pretty much over in England, you can't really have them when half your population are dead and you really need people to work the land.

Also unlike 'France' and rest of European mainland England was covered by Common Law.

Yes the Normans enforced serfdom on the Saxons and brought their own serfs over.

There was not as such a professional archer, everyone was by law expected to be an archer, made in to law 1252.

This included serfs, as chances are if you were not a serf you could afford a sword.

http://www.ryelongbowmen.org/history-of-the-longbow/

The archers at Crecy were not a professional army, just men who owed fealty to a lord of some manor or sheriff etc.

Anyhow, wildly OT lol.
The English system of feudalism was hardly that much different from the European one. The signing of the Magna Carta and the gradual shift of power from the English monarch to the Parliament certainly established a democratic trend within English society, but early on during the medieval times (which is what we are talking about) English serfs were still treated like serfs, in that their rights and privileges were secondary to those of the nobility.

English archers were drawn from the lower classes. And archery was highly encouraged in English society. But archers were only organized and formed into paid units at the discretion of the lords and kings. And when they were called to service, they would remain there until released. So on longer campaigns, like the one launched by Edward III, full-time soldiers and called up levies were retained and likely formed into a cohesive fighting force; in that sense they were professional soldiers.

You're right that we are OT. But to suggest that there was no arms control in medieval England is laughable. The peasants were purposely kept in line through economic and social pressure, and at times intimidation and physical force. Yes they had access to bows and some weapons, but not the same type of weaponry that knights and paid soldiers and men-at-arms had. There was a clear distinction between the lower and upper classes.

You can go read any number of historical accounts where revolts, uprisings, protests, disputes by peasants/serfs were violently suppressed by the nobility. The lords controlled much of their serf's lives: their tax rates, their justice, sometimes their job and yes, their access to weapons.

Remember, those serfs who did have weapons in the feudal system, did so because their lords allowed that and not because it was some inherent right.
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Last edited by Dalko43; 01-30-2016 at 10:09 AM..
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      01-29-2016, 03:05 PM   #204
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Everyone had access to an ax or a longbow in England. A longbow was deadly to knights. Even a staff or club could be effective back then. It's kinda like a cop with body armor and a 9mm vs a street thug today.
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      01-30-2016, 10:28 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Everyone had access to an ax or a longbow in England. A longbow was deadly to knights. Even a staff or club could be effective back then. It's kinda like a cop with body armor and a 9mm vs a street thug today.
An organized and trained unit of longbowmen, properly supported by infantry and utilizing advantageous terrain could be deadly to more heavily armored troops.

Archers, by themselves or in disorganized groups were very easy to run down and slaughter. In fact, some of the open battles where the English armies lost to the French in the Hundred Years War were due to the English archers being out of position and improperly supported: Battle of Cocherel; Battle of Pontvallain; Battle of Baugé to name a few.

So it was very unlikely that a bunch of peasants, armed with bows and maybe a few knives and swords, would have posed much of a threat to armored knights and men-at-arms, which is why the nobility felt safe allowing the peasants to have such weapons.
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      01-30-2016, 11:51 AM   #206
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True. So what's the point? Today the average Joe armed with handguns or a semi auto ar15 doesn't pose much threat to the current army with aircraft carriers, Abrams tanks, night vision, and apache helicopterso with tow misses and chain guns. This is the modern day equivalent. So the point is why take guns away with that in mind? It would be like banning hunting bows and skinning knives in the middle ages.
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      01-30-2016, 12:03 PM   #207
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My work is a battlefield..
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      01-30-2016, 12:08 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
My work is a battlefield..
Unfortunately for some that becomes a reality. Better safe than sorry. Like having a spare tire.
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      01-30-2016, 12:22 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
An organized and trained unit of longbowmen, properly supported by infantry and utilizing advantageous terrain could be deadly to more heavily armored troops.

Archers, by themselves or in disorganized groups were very easy to run down and slaughter. In fact, some of the open battles where the English armies lost to the French in the Hundred Years War were due to the English archers being out of position and improperly supported: Battle of Cocherel; Battle of Pontvallain; Battle of Baugé to name a few.

So it was very unlikely that a bunch of peasants, armed with bows and maybe a few knives and swords, would have posed much of a threat to armored knights and men-at-arms, which is why the nobility felt safe allowing the peasants to have such weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
True. So what's the point? Today the average Joe armed with handguns or a semi auto ar15 doesn't pose much threat to the current army with aircraft carriers, Abrams tanks, night vision, and apache helicopterso with tow misses and chain guns. This is the modern day equivalent. So the point is why take guns away with that in mind? It would be like banning hunting bows and skinning knives in the middle ages.
Yep, in conventional warfare the average joe would be slaughtered. But somehow a bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan and some rice farmers in Vietnam have managed to be trouble for some of the most powerful militaries in history using the appropriate tactics with the limited resources at their disposal.
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      01-30-2016, 12:24 PM   #210
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Yep, in conventional warfare the average joe would be slaughtered. But somehow a bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan and some rice farmers in Vietnam have managed to be trouble for some of the most powerful militaries in history using the appropriate tactics with the limited resources at their disposal.
Just like the Scots were to the English or celts were to the Romans. This was one of the reasons there is a first ammendment. So the government couldn't become a dictatorship and the people could fight back if it did.
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      01-30-2016, 12:36 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Unfortunately for some that becomes a reality. Better safe than sorry. Like having a spare tire.
Yes , but I was talking about my work operating conditions ..
Even colleagues became kinda competition ...and only the strong survive , the rest is history !
I saw a lot changing the last 2-3 years and only one thing matters..."Financial speculation" and it's never enough !
These day's only the word "profit" matters , and people became numbers ..
God...Where are we going through ?
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